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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Buoyancy vest vs Parachute ?

Reply
Created by Macroscien > 9 months ago, 30 Jun 2012
Macroscien
QLD, 6808 posts
30 Jun 2012 8:58PM
Thumbs Up

Suppose that you are offered that choice next time buying air ticket.

Would you prefer to have parachute instead of buoyancy vest - just in case ?

I guess both weight and cost the same ( parachute and vest). Small ()modification to air plane should be possible for fast in flight evacuation.
Maybe in next Dream-liner ?
Boenig or Airbus will be first ?

For sure I am tempted to use cheap Air China planes when availabe - and then my parachute concept will be quite handy.

I bet that Air Force One has few parachutes on hand.



wodgina6722
WA, 229 posts
30 Jun 2012 7:25PM
Thumbs Up

Air force one isn't just one plane.

davo4772
VIC, 64 posts
30 Jun 2012 9:32PM
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A parachute is roughly 3kg. Times 400 seats = too heavy

Macroscien
QLD, 6808 posts
30 Jun 2012 9:46PM
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I do watch Air Crash Investigations and I could not recall a single crash that vest had any use at all.
Even Hudson river landing ...
For parachute completely diffrent perspective ..
under one condition of course ...
captain will jump last not first

FormulaNova
WA, 14911 posts
30 Jun 2012 8:03PM
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Is it possible to jump from a plane in trouble and survive? Isn't it too high, and the air too thin and cold?

When a plane just breaks up, you have no hope anyway.

I doubt there are many situations where the plane is in control (to allow people to jump) but otherwise doomed.

Imagine trying to get a few hundred people to jump from a plane, when you are seconds from disaster...

Macroscien
QLD, 6808 posts
30 Jun 2012 10:04PM
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Terminal velocity of jumper flying belly first is 195 km/h
head or feet first around 300Km/h

even if you over the water your are dead for sure on landing..

but suppose there it was our holiday trip to tropical paradise and all our SeaBreeze comunity were on the plane
everybody jump with his full gear
-teabaggers with inflated kites and boards
-windsurfers with sail rigged on and small wave board
- SUP -sorry guys with your coffin board
-sailor in full ballast Yachts or hanging to the moths
and jetskiers blasting full power too

Who may have the best chance to survive the landing on the water ?


Dawn Patrol
WA, 1991 posts
30 Jun 2012 8:23PM
Thumbs Up

I think if you leave a plane at super high altitude you'd pass out in the thin air, but perhaps awake again as you get lower to the ground?

People have survived drops out of planes no parachute etc.

I recon the SUPers would have the best chance. The area of their boards would make their terminal velocity slower than the other crafts.

That is unless it is a really high fall and the kiter has time to inflate the kite, lay out the lines and launch the kite in free fall...

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
30 Jun 2012 10:30PM
Thumbs Up

cost is nowhere near similar, lots of crucial bits to a parachute, harness + rigging + chute + pack + deployment system (ripcord/spring/static line).

Bouyancy vest is just a bladder in a pvc jacket with a 5c plastic whistle.

Plus
no oxygen
too cold
no easy way to exit safely
no easy way to trigger chute reliably for a jumbo full of people(static line but tangles etc)
Need the bouyancy vest if over sea anyway
wet parachute will drown what the sharks don't get
etc

Macroscien
QLD, 6808 posts
30 Jun 2012 10:46PM
Thumbs Up

Planes sometime fly for hours with obvious fault unable landing safely, well below their ceiling height of 10km
but even at max hight it should take about 40 seconds in free drop to reach 7 km where is enough oxygen to breathe

saltiest1
NSW, 2510 posts
30 Jun 2012 11:05PM
Thumbs Up

so im not going to suffocate after 40 seconds, or snap freeze. bring it on i say! got my throw away at the ready. besides, the oxy masks will drop. yeeehaaaa!

saltiest1
NSW, 2510 posts
30 Jun 2012 11:05PM
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btw, a rig is closer to 10kg

dinsdale
WA, 1227 posts
30 Jun 2012 10:25PM
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Air force pilots do somehow, with a couple of notable cases from well above 40,000', and survive.

kiteboy dave said...
no oxygen
too cold
no easy way to exit safely
no easy way to trigger chute reliably for a jumbo full of people(static line but tangles etc)
Need the bouyancy vest if over sea anyway
wet parachute will drown what the sharks don't get
etc

1. Small emergency oxy bottle and mask as part of the parachute rig, as per ejection seats.
2. EXTREMELY cold!! -36C - dess for the occasion as air force aircrew do.
3. Necessity is the mother of invention. If parachutes were the norm, egress paths would be too.
4. Use barostatic devices, again as per ejection seats.
5. Entirely correct. Make vests part of "dressing for the occasion".
6. Wet parachutes are roughly buoyancy neutral, but dangerous if you get tangled up. Some sort of device similar to barostatic, but actuated on contact with water.

Overall, could be done with current in-use tech, but would be absolutely cost prohibitive, from several angles. Anything akin to ejection seats would kill more than they'd save. Ejection seats are a "last chance" device.

Btw, an airforce pilot only has to be conscious long enough to pull the handle - no matter what altitude, including on the ground. All the rest happens automatically, including inflating his PFD.

youngbull
QLD, 825 posts
1 Jul 2012 6:19AM
Thumbs Up

I would choose the PFD, after sitting through many sessions of "now in an emergency blow on this tube to inflate"..( they even have dancing on some aircraft whilst they prepare you )

I could only imagine the speech for a chute.
Beside jumping out at 300kts and being slammed into the horizontal stab would not be far as nice as grabbing the boobs of the closest hottest chick and singing combyah..

Beaglebuddy
1595 posts
1 Jul 2012 8:11AM
Thumbs Up

You would have to fight the crew and passengers to get the door open to jump, not possible IMHO.
How about a helmet and flame proof suit? More likely to crash on land during takeoff and landing. And sit in the back of the airplane.

Chris6791
WA, 3271 posts
1 Jul 2012 9:51AM
Thumbs Up

Arent the cabin doors effectively plugs that seal with greater force as the differential between cabin pressure and outside pressure increases. So you can't get the door oPen anyway. If you make the doors easier to open some drunk nutter that's wants to get off at 32,000 feet is going to kill everyone on the Plane anyway.

Mark _australia
WA, 22857 posts
1 Jul 2012 10:10AM
Thumbs Up

Chris6791 said...

Arent the cabin doors effectively plugs that seal with greater force as the differential between cabin pressure and outside pressure increases. So you can't get the door oPen anyway. If you make the doors easier to open some drunk nutter that's wants to get off at 32,000 feet is going to kill everyone on the Plane anyway.


And just how was it in that little jail cell at the very back for the rest of the flight, Chris?

Prawnhead
NSW, 1317 posts
1 Jul 2012 12:44PM
Thumbs Up

totally pointless ......if you exited a plane at 900 km/h (cruising speed)at 37000 how many pieces would you split into ...... akin to hitting a brick wall
there was a rash of hijackings in the 70's inspired by D B Cooper where they exited jets but they were travelling slowly
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper
the fastest human was this guy in 1960 ......deadset legend
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Kittinger

hamburglar
ACT, 2174 posts
1 Jul 2012 1:37PM
Thumbs Up

Macroscien said...

Suppose that you are offered that choice next time buying air ticket.

Would you prefer to have parachute instead of buoyancy vest - just in case ?

I guess both weight and cost the same ( parachute and vest). Small ()modification to air plane should be possible for fast in flight evacuation.
Maybe in next Dream-liner ?
Boenig or Airbus will be first ?

For sure I am tempted to use cheap Air China planes when availabe - and then my parachute concept will be quite handy.

I bet that Air Force One has few parachutes on hand.





mate stay away from the computer on saturday night if your
gunna get fully loaded up on gear, stick with the playstation


wodgina6722
WA, 229 posts
1 Jul 2012 11:40AM
Thumbs Up

hamburglar said...

Macroscien said...

Suppose that you are offered that choice next time buying air ticket.

Would you prefer to have parachute instead of buoyancy vest - just in case ?

I guess both weight and cost the same ( parachute and vest). Small ()modification to air plane should be possible for fast in flight evacuation.
Maybe in next Dream-liner ?
Boenig or Airbus will be first ?

For sure I am tempted to use cheap Air China planes when availabe - and then my parachute concept will be quite handy.

I bet that Air Force One has few parachutes on hand.





mate stay away from the computer on saturday night if your
gunna get fully loaded up on gear, stick with the playstation





Ha ha reeks of it

Macroscien
QLD, 6808 posts
1 Jul 2012 2:18PM
Thumbs Up

Prawnhead said...

totally pointless ......if you exited a plane at 900 km/h (cruising speed)

at same manner you could criticize need for life boats on the cruiser.
At 35 knots will be quite difficult to deploy.
Plane could fly slower if needed then 900 km/h,
182 knots is stalling speed for Airbus,
Flying only 900 km/h will be unable to land anyway.
Plane evacuation is a procedure. Anyway paratroopers jump of flying planes not helicopters and balloons.
Besides alternative hidden in the topic is slamming into water first at even greater speed , then using PFD


Dawn Patrol
WA, 1991 posts
1 Jul 2012 12:41PM
Thumbs Up

Prawnhead said...

totally pointless ......if you exited a plane at 900 km/h (cruising speed)at 37000 how many pieces would you split into ...... akin to hitting a brick wall



There are cases where fighter pilots have ejected above the speed of sound and lived. It messes them up a fair bit though.


So there is still a chance, going by this video it's 50/50.


If you were falling from an extreme height with no parachute, what would you aim for?

Mark _australia
WA, 22857 posts
1 Jul 2012 12:53PM
Thumbs Up

Dawn Patrol said...

If you were falling from an extreme height with no parachute, what would you aim for?



A breast implant factory. Soft yet firm.

dinsdale
WA, 1227 posts
1 Jul 2012 3:46PM
Thumbs Up

Prawnhead said...
totally pointless ......if you exited a plane at 900 km/h (cruising speed)at 37000 how many pieces would you split into ...... akin to hitting a brick wall

Not so. There have been plenty of pilots survive bangin' out at considerably higher speeds than that. Several even beyond mach2 and at least 1 RAAFfy I knew who was still flying after 3 bang outs, 2 of which were around mach1.5. It's all about being prepared. Hence what I said before: It's absolutely cost prohibitive - but absolutely doable.

Macroscien
QLD, 6808 posts
1 Jul 2012 11:43PM
Thumbs Up

dinsdale said...
[: It's absolutely cost prohibitive - but absolutely doable.

how much it cost one life in air crash insurance claim ?

Ian1
WA, 129 posts
1 Jul 2012 11:39PM
Thumbs Up

You have to be jokin. You really think a parachute and harness is comparable in size and weight to the excuse for a life vest under your seat, Ha!

Ooh! and when it all turnes to crap the pilot is going to slow the aircraft to stall speed while we all stand in the isle strapping on our parachutes, cause we are all going to jump out of an aircraft that is totally under control????

Ooh!! ooh!! and we all wear flight suits and helmets so it is actually possible to jump out at mach 1.5 anyway!!!

WTF!

oceanfire
WA, 718 posts
2 Jul 2012 11:46AM
Thumbs Up

I can't believe you've all overlooked the obvious solution.

Wingsuits!

They're compact, no long lies to get tangled.
I'm sure the airlines could find a cheap manufacturer in China to supply.
Make them standard cabin wear and should the plane be in trouble, jumping out at 900km/h you'd just glide the rest of the way to your destination.

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
2 Jul 2012 2:53PM
Thumbs Up

oceanfire said...

jumping out at 900km/h you'd just glide the rest of the way to your destination.


...which would be about the same result as if you has a life-jacket, or parachute...unless you're an extreme sportsperson with vast experience in wingsuit gliding...and there was a shipment of fluffy pillows, or a giant jumping-castle somewhere in the vicinity?!

oceanfire
WA, 718 posts
2 Jul 2012 1:12PM
Thumbs Up

Sailhack said...

oceanfire said...

jumping out at 900km/h you'd just glide the rest of the way to your destination.


...which would be about the same result as if you has a life-jacket, or parachute...unless you're an extreme sportsperson with vast experience in wingsuit gliding...and there was a shipment of fluffy pillows, or a giant jumping-castle somewhere in the vicinity?!



You do know what the most likely 'destination' will be don't you?

hamburglar
ACT, 2174 posts
2 Jul 2012 4:46PM
Thumbs Up

Earth ?

Prawnhead
NSW, 1317 posts
2 Jul 2012 5:48PM
Thumbs Up

dinsdale said...

Prawnhead said...
totally pointless ......if you exited a plane at 900 km/h (cruising speed)at 37000 how many pieces would you split into ...... akin to hitting a brick wall

Not so. There have been plenty of pilots survive bangin' out at considerably higher speeds than that. Several even beyond mach2 and at least 1 RAAFfy I knew who was still flying after 3 bang outs, 2 of which were around mach1.5. It's all about being prepared. Hence what I said before: It's absolutely cost prohibitive - but absolutely doable.

quite so ,although i still maintain that if you stuck your head out the window (not in a flight suit/ejection seat restrained and shielded) at that speed you would loose it
which reminds me of that joke about "a pilots best form of contraception "















their personality!!!

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
2 Jul 2012 3:58PM
Thumbs Up

Prawnhead said...

dinsdale said...

Prawnhead said...
totally pointless ......if you exited a plane at 900 km/h (cruising speed)at 37000 how many pieces would you split into ...... akin to hitting a brick wall

Not so. There have been plenty of pilots survive bangin' out at considerably higher speeds than that. Several even beyond mach2 and at least 1 RAAFfy I knew who was still flying after 3 bang outs, 2 of which were around mach1.5. It's all about being prepared. Hence what I said before: It's absolutely cost prohibitive - but absolutely doable.

quite so ,although i still maintain that if you stuck your head out the window (not in a flight suit/ejection seat restrained and shielded) at that speed you would loose it
which reminds me of that joke about "a pilots best form of contraception "















their personality!!!



HEHE



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Buoyancy vest vs Parachute ?" started by Macroscien