Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
'nova (and others) I hear what you're saying - apart from build quality.
Falcons and Commodres fall to bits. They are made to be a fleet car, so it gets everything it needs (almost to excess) in all services then dumped on the secondhand market after 80,000kms
I have never yet spent a single dollar on a Jap car that I did not want to spend - that covers Toyota hatch and sedan, Mitsi (errgghh) 4WD, Subaru and Mazda sports models. A couple of them were flogged liek buggery and never needed anything.
But a Commodore and Falcon is continual crap going wrong at 100,000 - 200,000km. A $500 problem every couple of months. Stuff just falls off or turns to crap!
Just seems there is a sh!tload more 'Friday' cars made in Australia than in Japan.
I think one thing that outside manufacturers would gain from is the fact that their cars are 'world' cars where the volume of them made means that any bugs are ironed out faster, and parts should be cheaper for them to buy. If you make 150,000 of one model a year, surely your level of detail can be better than if you produce 15,000.
My VS wagon had 180K kms on it when I got it. It was reliable and cheap to run. I have an FG falcon with 180K Kms on it now, and it drives well. There were the usual bits and pieces that needed replacement, but nothing expensive.
Mark, were there any bits on these Jap cars that got replaced, but was done at service, so you didn't notice? I am surprised that nothing went wrong. I do almost all the work on my own cars, so I know what has needed changing. I think the only thing that I replace as a matter of course at around 100K kms on cars is the brake disks, as aftermarket ones here seem to be better than the OEM Ford or Holden ones. I have read that a lot of imported cars have disks that get eaten up in only 30K kms, so I don't think Ford or Holden are particularly bad.
Either way, its a shame the local manufacturing has gone. Maybe it would have been better to have introduced a model here that was already produced elsewhere to try and reduce the costs of production?
Its pretty clear if a country wants a successful car manufacturing industry the population has to support that industry through both buying the product and demanding protection and subsidies for the industry.
Gone are the days where if you were not driving an Australian made car you were looked down upon. Gone are the days when the most basic car cost about $20K and the most basic full time wage was about $20K. Today the basic wage is double or more of that and the basic car is about $15K. Should Australians pay $50K for a basic car if that will keep the Australian car industry going?
Look on the road and see what people are buying. Those little wagons they call sports utility vehicles. None of them are made here. Its getting to the point you see more new Great Wall wagons around than you do Ford Falcons.
Its true Australians have this crazy fixation on German cars. They think if its got a two letter name or has a three pointed star on the front then its worth about twice as much as anyone else is prepared to pay for it. Yes go to Germany and see all those $130K in Australia and $50K in Germany taxis with the three pointed star on the front. Take a ride in one.
Disagree that Aussie cars fall apart. I had a Magna and it was very reliable. I did not have any mechanical issues with it. The only trouble was a smashed driver mirror from some bastard who sideswiped the car when it was parked and a headlight lense cracked headlight lense from a collision with a roo. I easily replaced both parts.
Nothing beats a good second hand Aussie car for doing the job of getting around at minimum cost. Have had plenty of them. The same could be said of roto-moulded polypropylene Bomboras. Had plenty of them too. But if a car is your thing, and it is for a lot of people who haven't discovered nicely engineered sporting gear to throw money at, then a nicely engineered car is good to have.
A car should be engineered to get a given number of people around comfortably using a minimum of fossil fuel. The front engine rear drive format is not a good place to start. For a give number of comfortable seats it has to be longer and heavier. Then you have to turn rotational motion through 90 degrees. Another inefficiency. The latest Falcon ecoBoost 4 cylinder weighs 1648 kg. It has no more passenger space than the latest Golf at 1050 kg. http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/volkswagen-golf-revealed-20120904-25caw.html. The Golf is about $10,000 cheaper from new, uses less petrol, but after about 200,000km the Falcon will probably edge ahead in overall motoring cost.
Not much Ford Australia could have done except produce 2nd hand Falcons.
Select to expand quoteMobydisc said..
Gone are the days where if you were not driving an Australian made car you were looked down upon.
I remember my dad telling us kids about the first time he met my grandfather (mum's dad). He pulled up in a Datsun...and that was nearly the end of it! Pa was absolutely disgusted that his daughter was going out with a kid that drove a 'Jap-car'! 
I'm a Ford fan and always bought our cars locally. After retrofitting the local Ford dealership showroom & reception a few years back, my wife & I bought an ex-demo territory - still have it & it's been a great car for the family. I also owned a BA (RTV) ute with my joinery business & travelled to Geelong & back with school - every week for 2 years (3hrs one-way trip)...sold it very reluctantly as it was only a 2-seater & with 3 kids - not practical. It was also a great car & I see it regularly driving around by the guy that bought it off me. Owned an XR8 going back about 10 years - the wife wants another one as soon as the kids get older.
As for Ford pulling the pin - very sad day for all the employees & suppliers. I hope that many of them manage to find or create work.
Select to expand quoteMobydisc said..
Its pretty clear if a country wants a successful car manufacturing industry the population has to support that industry through both buying the product and demanding protection and subsidies for the industry.
A combination of the two for sure, meanwhile the level playing field propaganda continues, the migration offshore of manufacturing continues and inevitably we end up the the Australia that we deserve.
Yeah, I think the Commodore and Falcon are hard to match for width. Mitsubishi had to widen the Magna to fit local requirements, as I suspect other manufacturers did. You only notice it though when you have three large guys try to jam into the back seat, and that's not often a requirement. I tried to fit into the back of a WRX with some work colleagues, and it was a very tight fit, whereas a Falcon would have been fine.
That Golf must be light. I can understand it though. If you use special steel, aluminium, and composite, you could drop weight I guess. Even our local products use special steel in some sections, and they mention that the repair techniques have to make sure that they don't overheat these bits of steel otherwise its strength is compromised.
I read the article (take the final full stop away from the URL), and it sounds like they have used a lot more CAN bus or similar for the wiring. In theory you can run a lot of components with just power feeds and access to the CAN, so this seems to shed a bit of weight.
I wish Ford dumped the sedan and just built a good looking wagon (for windsurfing of course). I thought it would have made sense as sedan drivers shouldn't care too much, and wagon drivers would be happy. The Mondeo seems a bit too small though.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said...
I wish Ford dumped the sedan and just built a good looking wagon (for windsurfing of course).
That's the 2wd Territory. One of the foresters I used to work with rented one at the airport on his way to a field trip. The foresters of course bagged it up against a Landcruiser. Do you think I could convince them it was only 2wd. But it did pretty well on sandy tracks with just a locking rear diff. Great on the highway, comfy driving position, best headlights I've seen. It's listed on that same 1648kg Falcon site as 1900 kg, no wonder they're thirsty.
It's interesting there are talks on the radio news about re introducing import tariffs on overseas cars.... that will affect GMH and Ford as well, do they actually want their imported cars to go up as well?
Perhaps counter productive...
How long can the industry be protected for 5, 10, 20+ years or do we just accept the enviable?
Select to expand quoteGizmo said..
It's interesting there are talks on the radio news about re introducing import tariffs on overseas cars.... that will affect GMH and Ford as well, do they actually want their imported cars to go up as well?
Perhaps counter productive...
How long can the industry be protected for 5, 10, 20+ years or do we just accept the enviable?
Well, for the Ford cars made in Asia, I imagine Ford don't mind. The cost of labor would be cheaper, so they could probably handle it on a level playing field.
I think we should look to Germany for ideas. Do they protect their car industry? They seem to be able to make them, and you would argue they have a very healthy economy.
If you 'accept the inevitable' (or the enviable 
), you would shut down everything that we are not competitive at. That would mean a lot of industries shutting down and a lot of people importing stuff.
Wonder how many German cars are made in Germany? The 3 series must be BMWs top seller and it's made in South Africa.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
^^^ yeah agreed but what buggered us was
the strikes over no covered walkway to the dunny
knock off at 38.5deg
strike over one bloke who got sacked and probably deserved it
strike over a fridge in the lunch room at 4.5deg not 4.0 deg
OH&S stuff cos somebody got a sore finger so have to do a JSA and employ a consultant to show us how to bang a nail into wood
etc etc ad nauseum
nobody is saying we need to be like asia and treat workers like sh!t - but all the little bits have added up.
We are reaping what we have sown.
People seem to forget when the aussie dollar was 75c US, not on par, and we were still shutting steel mills and a car manufacturer pissed off overseas. You can't blame ONLY a strong dollar for Ford closing up
Australia is a resource rich country that could do anything but it is hamstrung by red tape, OH&S, militant unions (not saying unions are bad, just the militant attitude), over governance and a pussy attitude by workers.
If you were a person fortunate enough to be earning AUD$1100.00+ per day you wouldn't be so quick to question the motives of unions.
Select to expand quoteIan K said..
Wonder how many German cars are made in Germany? The 3 series must be BMWs top seller and it's made in South Africa.
Only the left-hand models though - the majority of the 3-series are still made in Germany. Coincidentally, RSA also makes left-hand Mercedes & VW for export to countries like Australia.
