Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Nissan Deltawing @ Le Mans

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Created by elmo > 9 months ago, 4 Jun 2012
elmo
WA, 8732 posts
4 Jun 2012 5:02PM
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Racing this year at Le Mans 24hr as an experimental a whole new concept in race car



Its one seriously "out there" design, but very impressive when you see it go, with extreme light weight and only running a 1.6L 4 pot it's designed to keep close to pace with the faster cars but use less fuel and tyres reducing time in the pits



www.highcroftracing.com/deltawing/
deltawingracing.com/

Gwendy
SA, 472 posts
4 Jun 2012 6:39PM
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Always open to new ideas, That looks like a nightmare of oversteer to me.

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
4 Jun 2012 6:01PM
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Gwendy said...

Always open to new ideas, That looks like a nightmare of oversteer to me.


That, or tipping over in a hard corner...

Think about it: braking and cornering hard puts all the weight of the car on the outside front wheel. Which simply isn't there in this car!

If they had it wider at the front and narrower at the back I'd say it was a great design... but... well... hmm.

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
4 Jun 2012 8:06PM
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nebbian said...

Gwendy said...

Always open to new ideas, That looks like a nightmare of oversteer to me.


That, or tipping over in a hard corner...

Think about it: braking and cornering hard puts all the weight of the car on the outside front wheel. Which simply isn't there in this car!

If they had it wider at the front and narrower at the back I'd say it was a great design... but... well... hmm.


Maybe they're driving it in reverse Nebs

scarrgo
WA, 193 posts
4 Jun 2012 6:17PM
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nebbian said...

Gwendy said...

Always open to new ideas, That looks like a nightmare of oversteer to me.


That, or tipping over in a hard corner...

Think about it: braking and cornering hard puts all the weight of the car on the outside front wheel. Which simply isn't there in this car!

If they had it wider at the front and narrower at the back I'd say it was a great design... but... well... hmm.


braking and cornering don't happen at the same time but still it is just not possible for this car to achieve the cornering speeds of the other cars it has potential to be faster in a straight line though being a bit more aero dynamic

CJW
NSW, 1718 posts
4 Jun 2012 9:07PM
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scarrgo said...

braking and cornering don't happen at the same time but still it is just not possible for this car to achieve the cornering speeds of the other cars it has potential to be faster in a straight line though being a bit more aero dynamic



If you're racing a percentage of braking absolutely occurs during cornering, just watch how long an F1 driver or V8 SC driver carries the brake into the corner, all about maximising those slip angles and weight transfer.

They could make the Deltawing corner as fast as an LMP1 car but that's not their philosophy...although the cornering speeds are pretty close. The delta wing has around half the drag of an LMP1 car and it also weighs half as much, this is where they hope to gain an advantage...and fuel econ. Should be interesting...wonder how long until someone takes a rear wheel off apexing too hard etc.

elmo
WA, 8732 posts
4 Jun 2012 7:25PM
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As some of the write ups have said you automatically think of the set up like a Robin reliant, this has most of the weight over the front wheel making it extremely unstable.

This wee beastie has most of its weight over the rear axle

DrJ
ACT, 481 posts
4 Jun 2012 10:26PM
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One also imagines that the professional designers at Nissan the track testers etc etc etc might have considered all of the above .... If not they are probably kicking themselves and wishing they had asked "the real experts" on the sea breeze forum LMFAO!

elmo
WA, 8732 posts
5 Jun 2012 6:46AM
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Nail - Head DrJ

I love innovation, and the creativity which happens when they throw the race design rule book out.

At the end of the day it may be a POS but it's definitely interesting and may send others down some previously unexplored thought paths. Time will tell.

I thought it would be interesting them explaining to the race committee that the "Gap " was big enough to fit the nose in just forgot about the trainer wheels behind.

Ian K
WA, 4049 posts
5 Jun 2012 12:27PM
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nebbian said...

Gwendy said...

Always open to new ideas, That looks like a nightmare of oversteer to me.




If they had it wider at the front and narrower at the back I'd say it was a great design... but... well... hmm.




nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
5 Jun 2012 12:42PM
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^^^^

Now we're talking!!!

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
5 Jun 2012 12:44PM
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^^ Wanna be harley

Ian K
WA, 4049 posts
5 Jun 2012 1:26PM
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nebbian said...

^^^^

Now we're talking!!!


Well then you're up for the Gopro version. This bloke makes a living by having the worlds best garage full of odd cars.

Gwendy
SA, 472 posts
5 Jun 2012 7:57PM
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DrJ said...

One also imagines that the professional designers at Nissan the track testers etc etc etc might have considered all of the above .... If not they are probably kicking themselves and wishing they had asked "the real experts" on the sea breeze forum LMFAO!


These kinds of things pop up in motorsport from time to time.

Usually publicity inspired, or the technical dept feels like having a play.

If it was quick it would have been around decades ago. These ideas are fascinating and I like checking them out as much as anybody, in the end it will just be a novelty.

elmo
WA, 8732 posts
5 Jun 2012 7:16PM
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CJW
NSW, 1718 posts
5 Jun 2012 9:21PM
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2 things;

1) Jay Leno is a knob jockey of the highest order.

2) Would not want to crash Morgan 3 wheeler hahaha.

As you were.

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
5 Jun 2012 10:14PM
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^^^^There's no oversteer there.

This glorious sounding prototype is a genuine oversteer monster.


DrJ
ACT, 481 posts
6 Jun 2012 2:56PM
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Gwendy said...

DrJ said...

One also imagines that the professional designers at Nissan the track testers etc etc etc might have considered all of the above .... If not they are probably kicking themselves and wishing they had asked "the real experts" on the sea breeze forum LMFAO!


.........If it was quick it would have been around decades ago......




I bow down to your superior logic.

No sorry, cant keep a straight face .......

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
6 Jun 2012 4:38PM
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(from their site)

Vehicle weight distribution is necessarily more rearward than traditionally seen with 72.5% of the mass between the wide track larger rear tires.

76% of the aerodynamic downforce acts on the rear of the car which has a lift to drag ratio of >5.0.

Rear wheel drive coupled with the rearward weight and aerodynamic distributions greatly enhances inline acceleration capability.

Unique amongst today's racing cars, more than 50% of the vehicle's braking force is generated behind the center of gravity giving a dynamically stable response.

Locking propensity of the un-laden front wheel at corner entry is greatly reduced due to virtually no lateral load transfer with the narrow front track/wide rear track layout, steered wheel "scrub drag" moment is virtually zero greatly increasing tire utilization and reducing mid turn understeer.

______________

It sounds more like a two wheel car, the front wheel just for minimum stability.

It's been done before, just not as extreme:

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
6 Jun 2012 11:24PM
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I wasimpressed by the videos , and realized that it had such skinny wheels at the front
so all the weight/drive at the back
light front end , skinny wheels, if they cut back to 1 wheel at the front and lay the wheel into the turn like a motor bike rather than keeping it vertical and fighting it , they could save even more weight.
it might start to look familiar too

Ian K
WA, 4049 posts
7 Jun 2012 5:36AM
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You can only go so far with a light front end. You need two forces to get a car to corner. The lateral centrifugal force - dominates in the big sweeper - and could be done with the rear wheels if the C of G was also to the rear.

And some forces to get the car rotating in time with corner. That's the coupling to overcome the rotational inertia. This is most important to initiate a turn on tight corners and it's done by the front wheels. Some cars don't have enough traction available at the front and suffer what's called "initial understeer".

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
7 Jun 2012 1:35PM
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evlPanda said...

(from their site)

Vehicle weight distribution is necessarily more rearward than traditionally seen with 72.5% of the mass between the wide track larger rear tires.

76% of the aerodynamic downforce acts on the rear of the car which has a lift to drag ratio of >5.0.

Rear wheel drive coupled with the rearward weight and aerodynamic distributions greatly enhances inline acceleration capability.

Unique amongst today's racing cars, more than 50% of the vehicle's braking force is generated behind the center of gravity giving a dynamically stable response.

Locking propensity of the un-laden front wheel at corner entry is greatly reduced due to virtually no lateral load transfer with the narrow front track/wide rear track layout, steered wheel "scrub drag" moment is virtually zero greatly increasing tire utilization and reducing mid turn understeer.

______________

It sounds more like a two wheel car, the front wheel just for minimum stability.

It's been done before, just not as extreme:



Now ya talkin

elmo
WA, 8732 posts
18 Jun 2012 12:38PM
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Gotta love a 24hr race

Qual 28th

Gearbox issues early on spending some time in the pits
Back out on track working way back up the field when they got slammed by a Toyota
1.08


it's broken


yes, it was slower than the LMP1's and some of the LMP2's but they were getting 11 laps out of a 40L tank with very low tire wear, whilst the other cars were getting around 8 laps with 50% more fuel

Shame, but that's motor racing

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
18 Jun 2012 10:25PM
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Didn't really get slammed, more like a gentle nudge. Must have upset the airflow/weight balance or something because he had no steering after that.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Nissan Deltawing @ Le Mans" started by elmo