Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Poll - Car Styling: Old School or New School?

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Created by ikw777 > 9 months ago, 6 Apr 2013
ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
6 Apr 2013 5:46PM
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I think car styling took a nosedive in the 1970s and has never recovered. I always prefer older shapes to modern styling. What do others think? Am I nuts or am I right?

Examples:
Old School




New School


GPA
WA, 2520 posts
6 Apr 2013 3:50PM
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I appreciate the design aesthetics of both... I think early 80's was a disaster though... all very square like the XD Falcon and Nissans.

Spocktek
WA, 281 posts
6 Apr 2013 6:31PM
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Classic not plastic!

Ian K
WA, 4049 posts
6 Apr 2013 6:46PM
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Spocktek said...
Classic not plastic!


Isn't a classic car 20 years or older? The first one is classic and has a GRP body?

Cars don't have proper wheels and tyres anymore. Those large diameter wheels with random spokes and very little rubber just look decorative.

FormulaNova
WA, 14731 posts
6 Apr 2013 7:04PM
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I use to love the look of XD, XE, and XF falcons. When the EA came out, I was amazed, and never thought anyone would take to these new rounded shapes.

Then the AU came out, and made the EA look old. Not worse, just old.

Now, with the current models, you look at the previous ones and wonder what you were thinking.

I think your ideal car shape gets set in childhood, and then nothing ever seems as good.

Troyrotor
QLD, 318 posts
6 Apr 2013 10:57PM
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Pre 80's for me, I drive a td Gemini panelvan. I don't really like any of the newer car shapes, especially the 1980-2000 period. Only car that I kinda like is an FD rx7 but needs work

Mark _australia
WA, 22414 posts
6 Apr 2013 9:20PM
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Dunno if there is old and new anymore. The rounded shape in the first pic is similar to some very fairly sports cars.

Angular or curvy comes and goes, with the return to hard / sharp angular lines in the last 6-8yrs.

MavericK040
WA, 583 posts
6 Apr 2013 9:48PM
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personally, i think 70's and 80's were the best 90's are horrid, and now they are starting to get good again. and all falcons are ugly! but thats just my opinion

Supporting images \/


Early 70's


Also early 70's


80's this is what i have except mines not an M3 just a 325i


90's ( gross!)


00's and looking good again!


10's not too bad,

yes i like BMW's - I used them as an example because i know the model generations.

Stubbies
WA, 1126 posts
6 Apr 2013 10:32PM
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When I was a kid my Dad bought a new 1971 Holden HG Premier sedan, white roof and pillars over midnight blue, he owned it for about 10 years. Only ever good memories associated with it.





2 years ago wife number 3 took off with my VY Commodore; I looked at replacing it with a 70/71 HG Premier, of the few I found in really good nick, (and there are a few rust buckets out there), none were under $36000. Brain beat heart into submission and went and got a Holden Commodore Sportswagon instead...

paulford
WA, 312 posts
6 Apr 2013 11:19PM
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I think we can blame the poor standard of car design during the 80's and 90's on the high standard of Cocaine in circulation at the time.

Ben 555
NSW, 453 posts
7 Apr 2013 7:48AM
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Stubbies said...
When I was a kid my Dad bought a new 1971 Holden HG Premier sedan, white roof and pillars over midnight blue, he owned it for about 10 years. Only ever good memories associated with it.





2 years ago wife number 3 took off with my VY Commodore; I looked at replacing it with a 70/71 HG Premier, of the few I found in really good nick, (and there are a few rust buckets out there), none were under $36000. Brain beat heart into submission and went and got a Holden Commodore Sportswagon instead...


Sorry to hear that Stubbies - do you miss the commode

Ian K
WA, 4049 posts
7 Apr 2013 7:16AM
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Years ago a very perceptive fellow I know told me a car had to have an ugly angle or two in the styling for owners to really become attached to them. I've seen a bit of truth to this but then the Ssangyong Stavic came out. Who would buy one of those? I've attempted to see what makes the owners tick by checking a few ads on Carsales.com. You've got to read between the lines, sellers always talk up cars, but for the Stavics, you can see they all are genuine regrettable sales. They'd make a great surf wagon. This one's on Gumtree, $29K, dreaming, who needs a wagon, make an offer?

snoopydog
WA, 71 posts
7 Apr 2013 8:06AM
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and its for sale the car that is

Gestalt
QLD, 14394 posts
7 Apr 2013 10:14AM
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audi r8 looks pretty nice.

Ian K
WA, 4049 posts
7 Apr 2013 8:49AM
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Gestalt said...
audi r8 looks pretty nice.


not a patch on the Renault R8

Gestalt
QLD, 14394 posts
7 Apr 2013 11:11AM
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oh la la ces't magnifique!

FormulaNova
WA, 14731 posts
7 Apr 2013 9:17AM
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Ian K said...
Gestalt said...
audi r8 looks pretty nice.


not a patch on the Renault R8





Which end is the front, and is it in reverse?

Stubbies
WA, 1126 posts
7 Apr 2013 9:22AM
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Ben 555 said...

Sorry to hear that Stubbies - do you miss the commode



Not really, missed the sail bags that were in the boot though!

cisco
QLD, 12337 posts
7 Apr 2013 12:01PM
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Since the 80s I don't believe there have been any really beneficial technological advances in the average street legal motor vehicles except maybe ABS.

They are still running on piston/crank engines which is 100 year old technology and putting computers on top of them has not really improved them.

As for styling, it comes down to which maker at which time. The 60s saw some beautiful shapes in the British cars like Jaguar, Triumph, MG, Rover, Aston Martin and Austin Healy.

When Ford Australia made the transition from the 70s to the 80s, the X D to F series was a great improvement in styling with the XE being the pick of them.

This was an original S Pac 4 speed that I unfortunately sold for $900 about 5 years ago. It is probably worth 10 times that now.



This is an original Fairmont I bought 10 years ago for $800 and has been my daily driver ever since. I never get sick of it and it never lets me down.



The one series of Ford Australia cars from the 70s that have maintained their desireability is the X A to C coupe/fastbacks.

I believe they are a better looking muscle car than any Mustang or other American import.





The following are some of my favourite classic cars with the Shelby Cobra being my particular favourite.

















Gestalt
QLD, 14394 posts
7 Apr 2013 12:07PM
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can't agree....

the advances have been mind boggling.

bosch alone has completely re-invented the entire system, you don't even need keys, or wires anymore.

engine performance has been taken to a whole new level with economy.

safety has been increased 10 fold.

not to mention electric cars, cars that drive themselves, lights that turn on when it's dark, cars that park themselves, windscreen wipers that turn on when it rains etc.

Mark _australia
WA, 22414 posts
7 Apr 2013 10:15AM
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+1 Gestalt

Cisco EFI alone was a massive improvement.
Trying to get a kingswood started and to idle nice on a cold winter morn was rather difficult even when well maintained and tuned. We take the ease / smoothness of modern motors for granted

AquaPlow
QLD, 1051 posts
7 Apr 2013 12:48PM
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cisco said...

As for styling, it comes down to which maker at which time. The 60s saw some beautiful shapes in the British cars like Jaguar, Triumph, MG, Rover, Aston Martin and Austin Healy.



The earlier Triumph stable certainly had some great classics - but one the #<>!@ Dolomite sticks in my memory as invariably being at the front of a long queue f traffic - the buyer profile - amazingly similar Sunday driver all week - never notice the end of the 30 MPH (our 60 Kms) speed zone leaving a village... probably from the legendary British Leyland marque - wow some of their cars make .. the patched up Renault R8 look like a dream machine


Early '80s getting bored with hobbies lined up an AMartin Ulster to build ...
Fibre Glass kit £880 built on an old MGb 1800 chasis £200 - option to put the Rover 3litre - and the weather proofing (sort of) kit an extra £140-ish
(got posted to Singapore - so the plans and some bits went to another home)...




Cheers
AP
(To be honest the 1st car I owned was a Frenchie = a Simca with a 1300 cc motor - probably had a graduate of the Deux Chevaux design school involved but the motor was like a grass hopper on steroids)

cisco
QLD, 12337 posts
7 Apr 2013 12:54PM
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I think you both missed my point, that being we are about 99.99% of us still driving around in piston/crank engined motor cars which is 100 year old technology.

EFI only goes so far. The mechanical losses in this type of engine are huge.

My XH panel van gives me around 10 to 11 litres/100 klm on the highway with EFI.

My XE Fairmont gives me around 12 to 13 litres/100 klm on the highway with it's standard dual throat Weber carburettor.

Around town it is a comparative exact opposite.

One of the best advancements, which appeared in the last series of Chrysler Valiants is ELB (electronic lean burn) technology.

If the Sarich engine had been fully developed and not killed for economic reasons, I am sure that is what would be powering modern cars.

MavericK040
WA, 583 posts
7 Apr 2013 11:37AM
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cisco said...

One of the best advancements, which appeared in the last series of Chrysler Valiants is ELB (electronic lean burn) technology.



I really cant be bothered with an internet argument about engine technology, but you couldn't be more wrong. hardly a "best advancement" all it was is a rudimentary form of electronic spark retard and advance, to call that the best advancement in automotive engine control technology is madness!

what about - Petrol direct injection, VVT, Hydraulically operated valves that can be opened half or full or not at all depending on requirements ( Alfa Romeo MiTo ) Honda's Cylinder shutdown, Variable geometry turbos,
Common rail diesel injection where the injection can take place upto 7 times in a single combustion cycle, multi spark where multiple sparks can take place in a single combustion cycle, knock control which can react in a milisecond, i could go on,

its like saying that the AppleII was the best computer advancement and that were all still using the same technology. its called progression man....


On another note - This is a good looking car! shame its not in production. best of old and new? ahh well like many things its subject to personal opinion.

Ian K
WA, 4049 posts
7 Apr 2013 11:39AM
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cisco said...
I think you both missed my point, that being we are about 99.99% of us still driving around in piston/crank engined motor cars which is 100 year old technology.

EFI only goes so far. The mechanical losses in this type of engine are huge.



It's the thermodynamic losses that are huge, if you're going to do internal combustion you can't beat pistons and crankshafts. Rotaries have advantages but also disadvantages. The Sarich orbital just looked too complicated to ever compete.

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
7 Apr 2013 7:17PM
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MavericK040 said...


On another note - This is a good looking car! shame its not in production. best of old and new? ahh well like many things its subject to personal opinion.




Fascinating concept but reflects the modern obsession with huge wheels. I really dislike the big wheels skinny rubber trend. I want sidewall!

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
7 Apr 2013 8:00PM
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MavericK040 said...
cisco said...

One of the best advancements, which appeared in the last series of Chrysler Valiants is ELB (electronic lean burn) technology.



I really cant be bothered with an internet argument about engine technology, but you couldn't be more wrong. hardly a "best advancement" all it was is a rudimentary form of electronic spark retard and advance, to call that the best advancement in automotive engine control technology is madness!

what about - Petrol direct injection, VVT, Hydraulically operated valves that can be opened half or full or not at all depending on requirements ( Alfa Romeo MiTo ) Honda's Cylinder shutdown, Variable geometry turbos,
Common rail diesel injection where the injection can take place upto 7 times in a single combustion cycle, multi spark where multiple sparks can take place in a single combustion cycle, knock control which can react in a milisecond, i could go on,

its like saying that the AppleII was the best computer advancement and that were all still using the same technology. its called progression man....




+10000 Cisco you're flogging a dead horse there mate.

Take the VW 1.4l twincharger engine. Makes up to 136kw (182bhp) from 1.4ltr, in a reliable light engine, only using 5.9l/100kms in some of the smaller models it's used in.

Some heavy old V8's from the era you're so keen on that struggle to make 182bhp.

Ian K
WA, 4049 posts
7 Apr 2013 6:01PM
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ikw777 said...



Fascinating concept but reflects the modern obsession with huge wheels. I really dislike the big wheels skinny rubber trend. I want sidewall!


I agree, the wheels and tyres are the most important thing on a car to get right. This one has a good set of wheels.


If you must have mags no more than 5 spokes


This one looks like it means business, that's always a good look. Mirrored hubcaps? Not sure

MavericK040
WA, 583 posts
7 Apr 2013 7:54PM
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+1 for massive wheels looking bad, and agree that wheels make or break the car.
in my opinion, the worst thing EVER in regards for car styling is massive chrome wheels.

i do like wheels with lots of spokes however like the ones Alpina use on all of their cars and a bit of dish never goes astray.



/\ those wheels could do with an inch less in diameter.


that is also one of my favorite cars of all time and if i could afford a decent one i would have it. i had one for a year or so, and even in its deteriorated state it was a beautiful car to drive.

on the other hand

Mark _australia
WA, 22414 posts
7 Apr 2013 8:22PM
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As much as I disagreed with Cisco he has a point. Reminiscing with a mate today, reminded of him running a 253 with no cooling system for about 5hrs in the garage, block was glowing dull red but it kept going. Shut it off and no way would it crank, it was seized. But when running it was running. Try that with modern motors with fine tolerances.

Or the newer Commodore motors. Overheating, so wanna rip out the thermostat? Nup. In every front engined car ever it has been top front (at the end of the top radiator hose). Noooo, now it is buried near the firewall and is a 4hr job, not a 15min job. Bad move for a hot country where a sticky thermostat could make you motionless halfway cross the nullabor. Cos a $10 part is inaccessable

Auto gearboxes? All computer controlled now and a nightmare for home rebuild. (Impossible)

Computer controlled interiors and dash (all linked in) is a nightmare - can't remove a globe without buggering the speedo, or a horn fuse without turning off brake lights and all that jazz. I have see a factory trained mechanic spend 6hrs tracing why a light would not work and had no idea. Days gone by, 10mins for a auto sparky with 100% success rate.

(BTW I prefer EFI to carbs, just the last 10yrs they have gone a bit too far)

FLYING ANT
WA, 75 posts
7 Apr 2013 8:39PM
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Old...and New.
Dad's mate with his GT40.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Poll - Car Styling: Old School or New School?" started by ikw777