Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Poll - Greatest Piston Engined Fighter of WWII

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Created by ikw777 > 9 months ago, 5 Mar 2013
ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
5 Mar 2013 12:54PM
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I just know you guys will have an opinion on this one!

Rules:
-Piston Engine only - no jets
-One or two engines
-No restrictions on number of crew (so you may include twin engined night fighters if you wish)

There can be only one answer of course - Supermarine Spitfire - but I'm sure forumites will come up with all sorts of other crazy ideas.

stamp
QLD, 2770 posts
5 Mar 2013 12:55PM
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rommel

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
5 Mar 2013 11:02AM
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+1 Supermarine Spitfire

Rex
WA, 949 posts
5 Mar 2013 11:06AM
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P51 Mustang, the best looking machine, even by today's standards.

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
5 Mar 2013 1:43PM
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Spitfire and Hurricane were the only interceptors in history to successfully stop an campaign sized air assault - Battle of Britain. No other aircraft has managed this.

Plus the spitfire was the most beautiful.

felixdcat
WA, 3519 posts
5 Mar 2013 12:03PM
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Rex said...
P51 Mustang, the best looking machine, even by today's standards.


Yep!

Mark _australia
WA, 22432 posts
5 Mar 2013 12:13PM
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P fiddy one stang

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
5 Mar 2013 12:18PM
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Mark _australia said...
P fiddy one stang




Bloody rappers

sn
WA, 2775 posts
5 Mar 2013 12:23PM
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I hate having to pick a single example.
how do you define the best?
the most kills?
the best performer?
the best from a pilots point of view?
the most produced?
in the closing days of the war, the japanese and germans had some outstanding aircraft that didnt get to fight, while the Americans had a few that were superceded by jets so never got to be tested in battle.

I'm going for the YAK 3, followed by the Ta152, then the Bearcat, Seafury and P47.

just to show my patriotic side, how about our Boomerang- built in record time out of recycled leftovers, but still able to do a damn fine job.

stephen

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
5 Mar 2013 12:28PM
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Corsair, who remembers Baa Baa Black Sheep

stuk
NSW, 893 posts
5 Mar 2013 4:01PM
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Mosquito..two engines better than one

Poodle
WA, 866 posts
5 Mar 2013 1:26PM
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The firepower of an FW190 combined with the speed & agility of an ME109.

But it didn't happen.

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
5 Mar 2013 4:36PM
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ikw777 said...
Spitfire and Hurricane were the only interceptors in history to successfully stop an campaign sized air assault - Battle of Britain. No other aircraft has managed this.

Plus the spitfire was the most beautiful.


I shall run a simulation tonight in IL-2: Sturmovik.

I suspect the Hurricane will take out the Spitfire.
Agreed the spitfire is prettier.

Here's vid of them fighting together. Could see one head-to-head.

Trant
NSW, 601 posts
5 Mar 2013 4:37PM
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stuk said...
Mosquito..two engines better than one


+1

There's some great videos on youtube about Operation Jericho, involving 4 Mosquito squadrons, which are well worth watching


jamdfingr
QLD, 663 posts
5 Mar 2013 3:52PM
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The spitfire is prettier but the P-51D mustang has the crown since it was the only piston engined fighter to take down the first of the jets.

Specifically P-51D as the P-51A had the Allison engine and had power issues at altitude.

This is all from memory so if I am wrong, please correct me....

I believe the P-51D swapped over to the Merlin??? Does that sound right?

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
5 Mar 2013 2:00PM
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jamdfingr said...
The spitfire is prettier but the P-51D mustang has the crown since it was the only piston engined fighter to take down the first of the jets.

Specifically P-51D as the P-51A had the Allison engine and had power issues at altitude.

This is all from memory so if I am wrong, please correct me....

I believe the P-51D swapped over to the Merlin??? Does that sound right?


Yes thats right.

southace
SA, 4776 posts
5 Mar 2013 4:42PM
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What's this got to do with the ocean? I'm calling Laurie and the postal removal squad!

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
5 Mar 2013 2:20PM
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doggie said...
jamdfingr said...
The spitfire is prettier but the P-51D mustang has the crown since it was the only piston engined fighter to take down the first of the jets.

Specifically P-51D as the P-51A had the Allison engine and had power issues at altitude.

This is all from memory so if I am wrong, please correct me....

I believe the P-51D swapped over to the Merlin??? Does that sound right?


Yes thats right.


Packard V-1650Main article: Packard V-1650
As the Merlin was considered to be so important to the war effort, negotiations were soon started to establish an alternative production line outside the UK. Rolls-Royce staff visited a number of North American automobile manufacturers in order to select one to build the Merlin in the U.S. or Canada. Henry Ford rescinded an initial offer to build the engine in the U.S. in July 1940, and the Packard Motor Car Company was subsequently selected to take on the $130,000,000 Merlin order.[nb 14][72] Agreement was reached in September 1940, and the first Packard-built engine, designated V-1650-1, ran in August 1941.[73]

sn
WA, 2775 posts
5 Mar 2013 2:43PM
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jamdfingr said...
the P-51D mustang has the crown since it was the only piston engined fighter to take down the first of the jets.


The hawker tempest was the real danger to the ME262, when the 262's were sighted, the tempests would scramble and head for the bases used by 262's, then catch them as they were landing.

Most 262's were lost either in this way, through mechanical failures or pilot error and inexperience with the new aircraft.
The early jet engines only had a short lifespan (a few hours at best) and throttle operation had to be very gradual or the jet died.

In real head-to-head combat the 262 was very difficult for the allies to stop.

I think the Hawker Fury/ Sea Fury was knocking down Mig15? or Mig17? jets in Korea a few years later as well.
stephen

d1
WA, 304 posts
5 Mar 2013 3:23PM
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jamdfingr said...
the P-51D mustang has the crown since it was the only piston engined fighter to take down the first of the jets.


That probably depends on which victor wrote the particular version of history. Others may say the Soviet ace Ivan Kozhedub had the only confirmed kill of a Me 262 in proper aerial combat using his Lavochkin La-7.

My nomination: Yak-3.

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
5 Mar 2013 5:27PM
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The Merlin and the later development, the Griffon, sounded awesome too. Cop the engine note on this fly past of a Griffon engined Mark 19 at 5.52:



Gets my tail all bushy.

dinsdale
WA, 1227 posts
5 Mar 2013 5:49PM
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The P51D was the first allied fighter to truly take air superiority over Europe. Spitties and Hurricanes did several times for short periods only, in the Spitties case mainly because it used Rolls Royce engines instead of the Packard built variant. (As an aside, the Lancasters were so successful in large part because most of them had Packard Merlins instead of Rolls Royce. Some even had those Hercules radial abominations, and no, I'm not mistaking them for the earlier Manchester bombers) Both the Merlins and the (considerably superior) Griffons suffered the same problem; a problem common to ALL British engines, before and since, for any purpose. Namely the inability to contain oil! Packard made the same Merlin engine with one important difference - it could contain its oil long enough to use up all the fuel. Neither Merlin nor Griffon engined Spitties could ever do that. Less than 30 minutes into a sortie the pilot had almost zero visibility due to copious quantities of (imp) gallons of oil washing all over the canopy, right down to the tail. This was true right to last Mk-XXXXVIII Spitties (The 48 was in fact a Seafire - a carrier based variant.)

The tide of the European war changed irrevocably when the allied heavy bombers were finally able to have fighter escorts all the way to deep into Germany. The P51D was the first allied fighter capable of this. Not only could they get there and back, they had typically 30mins+ time on target. They tried to do this with some variants of Spitties, but this was entirely unsuccessful for both the oil dumping reason and because Spitties were far less economical on fuel.

Of course, the P51D was a more modern design, so one should expect it to be better, but no-one expected it to be so much better. Would have given almost anything to see a Packard Griffon, and especially a Packard Griffon powered Spittie and Mustang. Rolls Royce designed the 2 most outstanding piston a/c engines ever (imo), but their execution was abysmal!

Any'ow, I'm always hard pressed to decide whether I like Spitties, Mustangs, Mossies, Beaufighters, BF-109 or FW-190. It seems to depend on how I felt when I woke up that day.

Finally, the old joke, "What's the difference between a RR Merlin and a bucket of oil?" was originally coined by Spittie pilots during WW2. The answer of course being that the bucket probably doesn't leak. Many of you would be aware that this old joke has since been applied to just about every British vehicle since, especially their motor bikes.

dinsdale
WA, 1227 posts
5 Mar 2013 5:56PM
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ikw777 said...
The Merlin and the later development, the Griffon, sounded awesome too. Cop the engine note on this fly past of a Griffon engined Mark 19 at 5.52:

Gets my tail all bushy.

M-m-mate!! You ought to hear 'em in real life. Saw a fly past of Lancaster, 2 Spitties, a Hurricane and a P51D. I still get aroused just thinking about it . Was also on duty one day at Richmond RAAF base when we had a P51 showing off. A full speed run (nearly 400kts) 10' above the tarmac about 50' away, and then a 7g climb at the full 60" boost. I was most definitely born 30 years too late .

Buster fin
WA, 2577 posts
5 Mar 2013 5:58PM
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Zero? The best Mitsubishi ever made.

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
5 Mar 2013 8:08PM
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Someone had to post it:



He hee - watch out for the swears!

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
5 Mar 2013 9:32PM
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Focke Wulf 190. This is the greatest piston fighter of WWII for a number of reasons.

Firstly its development was hampered by a severe lack of resources as the ME 109 was seen as the only fighter Germany needed. Despite this it was developed as an effective weapon of war.

Secondly it made use of an engine that was quite simple, cheap but was otherwise useless for German military aviation

Thirdly when that engine became obsolete the FW 190 could be modified to make use of different engine that allowed the planes to fly faster and higher.

Fourthly the FW 190 was much loved by the pilots who flew it and most German aces flew this plane. It was used on all the German fronts of war and was in use right up Germany's surrender against overwhelming odds.

Fifthly it could be assembled under very difficult circumstances due to constant bombing of Germany. The bombings were unable to stop the production of these planes.

Sixthly even though it was developed before the war, it was still an effective front line fighter and was still being modified at the end of the war.

Rex
WA, 949 posts
5 Mar 2013 6:34PM
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dinsdale said...
Was also on duty one day at Richmond RAAF base when we had a P51 showing off. A full speed run (nearly 400kts)



A incredibly awesome sounding engine!

harry potter
VIC, 2777 posts
5 Mar 2013 10:15PM
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Hurricane - won the battle of Britain for England the spitfire looked nice flew hard but lacked the maneuverability of the Hurricane in a dog fight.

southace
SA, 4776 posts
5 Mar 2013 9:53PM
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How come there are so many plane buffs on this site ? Like I have always been into aviation but wouldn't say my knowlage in details is as find as you guys!

Kitehard
WA, 2782 posts
Site Sponsor
5 Mar 2013 8:10PM
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P51D Mustang! They had a two speed Super charger which gave them the horsepower to climb higher and faster than any other fighter in WW2. What a beautiful aircraft!

I attended a talk night with General Chuck Yaeger in Sydney some years ago. He told some amazing stories of flying in the Mustangs over Europe as well as breaking the sound barrier in the X-1. A very exciting time in aviation history.

DM

dinsdale
WA, 1227 posts
5 Mar 2013 8:21PM
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harry potter said...
Hurricane - won the battle of Britain for England the spitfire looked nice flew hard but lacked the maneuverability of the Hurricane in a dog fight.

Correct!! Not only, but also, there were only 2 (iirc) squadrons of Spitties involved in the B of B. The Hurricane was the British fighter backbone for at least half of the war.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Poll - Greatest Piston Engined Fighter of WWII" started by ikw777