Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Punting the Odds on Climate Change. Hmmm.

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Created by cisco > 9 months ago, 13 Sep 2010
cisco
QLD, 12325 posts
13 Sep 2010 6:33AM
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#!









Bigwavedave
QLD, 2057 posts
13 Sep 2010 8:18AM
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If it's on the internet it must be true!

cisco
QLD, 12325 posts
13 Sep 2010 11:37AM
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Bigwavedave said...

If it's on the internet it must be true!


Not necessarily so but at least it is not censored.....yet.

Carantoc
WA, 6640 posts
13 Sep 2010 9:52AM
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Not even sure I am interested in the argument.

I mean, taking anything, condensing it into a highly concentrated form and realising it into the atmosphere or into the environment can't be a good thing. You can argue about the analysis and prediction of the effects, but end of the day it can't be good. Even planting 1 million acres of organic papaya with no other life forms in that 1 million acres can't be good, and organic papaya are the answer to the future.

And that is why the 'carbon tax' (which is not actually a tax on carbon) is bad government policy.

A tax on the production of all waste (and to replace personal income tax) would be good policy.

ginger pom
VIC, 1746 posts
13 Sep 2010 2:37PM
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Ok, so climate change is a massive scam that has a one in ten chance of being true...

Let's implement some totally irrational policies based on the fact that we believe the scam. Stupid policies such as

Taxing the use of scarce resources
Encouraging innovation to reduce the use of scarce resources
Reducing the need to increase income tax to deal with all the greedy baby boomers who seem to have retired expecting 30 years of loafing.
Reducing our dependency on unstable middle east coutries who are in general very nice but occasionally support people who blow up our trains and airports.
Helping developing countries to healthcare that means that they don't have to have enormous families to support them in their old age

If climate change isn't happening, then we can abandon all these daft ideas and carry on as we are...

log man
VIC, 8289 posts
13 Sep 2010 4:20PM
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Crikey Cisco, I thought all this was pretty much settled.

theDoctor
NSW, 5780 posts
13 Sep 2010 8:17PM
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ginger pom said...

Ok, so climate change is a massive scam that has a one in ten chance of being true...

Let's implement some totally irrational policies based on the fact that we believe the scam. Stupid policies such as

Taxing the use of scarce resources


such as...? an attempt to do something similiar in this country usurped its leader,gave us a ginger twit who'll sell her soul to be head lacky and gave those who cared to look a stirling example of how business is boss

Encouraging innovation to reduce the use of scarce resources


such as what...? redundant windfarms and window dressing solar technology..

Reducing the need to increase income tax to deal with all the greedy baby boomers who seem to have retired expecting 30 years of loafing.


so stalin, you'd prefer we all work hard till we're 70 and give anything we might have left to the government... hey I'm all for a metirocracy over aristocracy, but but a slave is a slave, we can well afford to look after each oneanother after we waste the best years of our lives toiling, and let the rich who very obviously steal from the poor, make you live the remainder of your shortened life in poverty...?


Reducing our dependency on unstable middle east coutries who are in general very nice but occasionally support people who blow up our trains and airports.


generally very nice, your politically correct claptrap makes me as sick as the thought of someone cursed with red pubes...

unstable because the convieniences you enjoy in your hoity toity holier than thou politically correct microwaved dinner remote garaged opened sham of an economically privlaged existance, dictates that the exploited countries must be unstabalised and coerced because as the saying goes 'divided we fall'...

you cannot prove 19 terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into the trade centres or suicide bombers blew up trains and busses in london any more convincinly than you claim I am able to prove that these were false flag operations...

new scientist, popular mechanics to me have as much credibility as today tonight...

Helping developing countries to healthcare that means that they don't have to have enormous families to support them in their old age

eugenics...? even worse, eugenics based on economics... you really make me sick; ginge, if you think there too many people on this planet please kindly remove yourself from it

If climate change isn't happening, then we can abandon all these daft ideas and carry on as we are...


we might as well because the only thing that is coming about as a result of these 'changes' atributed to fighting climate change is increased taxes....

ginger pom
VIC, 1746 posts
13 Sep 2010 9:22PM
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theDoctor said...

ginger pom said...

Ok, so climate change is a massive scam that has a one in ten chance of being true...

Let's implement some totally irrational policies based on the fact that we believe the scam. Stupid policies such as

Taxing the use of scarce resources


such as...? an attempt to do something similiar in this country usurped its leader,gave us a ginger twit who'll sell her soul to be head lacky and gave those who cared to look a stirling example of how business is boss

Encouraging innovation to reduce the use of scarce resources


such as what...? redundant windfarms and window dressing solar technology..

Reducing the need to increase income tax to deal with all the greedy baby boomers who seem to have retired expecting 30 years of loafing.


so stalin, you'd prefer we all work hard till we're 70 and give anything we might have left to the government... hey I'm all for a metirocracy over aristocracy, but but a slave is a slave, we can well afford to look after each oneanother after we waste the best years of our lives toiling, and let the rich who very obviously steal from the poor, make you live the remainder of your shortened life in poverty...?


Reducing our dependency on unstable middle east coutries who are in general very nice but occasionally support people who blow up our trains and airports.


generally very nice, your politically correct claptrap makes me as sick as the thought of someone cursed with red pubes...

unstable because the convieniences you enjoy in your hoity toity holier than thou politically correct microwaved dinner remote garaged opened sham of an economically privlaged existance, dictates that the exploited countries must be unstabalised and coerced because as the saying goes 'divided we fall'...

you cannot prove 19 terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into the trade centres or suicide bombers blew up trains and busses in london any more convincinly than you claim I am able to prove that these were false flag operations...

new scientist, popular mechanics to me have as much credibility as today tonight...

Helping developing countries to healthcare that means that they don't have to have enormous families to support them in their old age

eugenics...? even worse, eugenics based on economics... you really make me sick; ginge, if you think there too many people on this planet please kindly remove yourself from it

If climate change isn't happening, then we can abandon all these daft ideas and carry on as we are...


we might as well because the only thing that is coming about as a result of these 'changes' atributed to fighting climate change is increased taxes....



you're wrong. I'm not going to argue with you.

ginger pom
VIC, 1746 posts
13 Sep 2010 9:53PM
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actually I am...

Apart from the ginger, hitler, stalin comments.

Kev rudd's deposition does not make the policies a bad idea
Nope, if they're not innovative then it doesn't match my statement
Nope, your generation should be entitled to the same retirement privileges that mine will be. You need to get used to the idea. I'm not paying for you (the majority) to have 30 years chilling out, because when I'm old the young (the majority) won't pay for me to do it.
Ok, if 911 was an inside job then you're right. But you're not, you're a nutjob.
Not eugenics



And your last point that it is impossible is just an indication that you're a lot older and more cynical than I am...

PeterWac33
WA, 9 posts
13 Sep 2010 7:55PM
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911 was an inside job. It was inside 912 which nests within 913.

914 is a big sports bag full of 913s and it sits in a Porsche 915 parked in a garage at number 916 in postcode 2917.

It's all jobs within jobs. Big jobs

Carantoc
WA, 6640 posts
13 Sep 2010 9:08PM
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Whole thing was just to get us to use US date nomenclature.

Before 9 /11 everybody in the world (except a few yanks) said 11th of the 9th.

Now we all say 9 / 11, with no logic

day / month / year goes smallest to biggest
month / day / year is just a disorganised mess

All just signals the dumbing down of the current generation. Didn't happen in my day, world is obviously going to pot.


Mmmm pot, good idea



(got to pot up my organic papaya)

log man
VIC, 8289 posts
14 Sep 2010 12:48AM
Thumbs Up

theDoctor said...

ginger pom said...

Ok, so climate change is a massive scam that has a one in ten chance of being true...

Let's implement some totally irrational policies based on the fact that we believe the scam. Stupid policies such as

Taxing the use of scarce resources


such as...? an attempt to do something similiar in this country usurped its leader,gave us a ginger twit who'll sell her soul to be head lacky and gave those who cared to look a stirling example of how business is boss

Encouraging innovation to reduce the use of scarce resources


such as what...? redundant windfarms and window dressing solar technology..

Reducing the need to increase income tax to deal with all the greedy baby boomers who seem to have retired expecting 30 years of loafing.


so stalin, you'd prefer we all work hard till we're 70 and give anything we might have left to the government... hey I'm all for a metirocracy over aristocracy, but but a slave is a slave, we can well afford to look after each oneanother after we waste the best years of our lives toiling, and let the rich who very obviously steal from the poor, make you live the remainder of your shortened life in poverty...?


Reducing our dependency on unstable middle east coutries who are in general very nice but occasionally support people who blow up our trains and airports.


generally very nice, your politically correct claptrap makes me as sick as the thought of someone cursed with red pubes...

unstable because the convieniences you enjoy in your hoity toity holier than thou politically correct microwaved dinner remote garaged opened sham of an economically privlaged existance, dictates that the exploited countries must be unstabalised and coerced because as the saying goes 'divided we fall'...

you cannot prove 19 terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into the trade centres or suicide bombers blew up trains and busses in london any more convincinly than you claim I am able to prove that these were false flag operations...

new scientist, popular mechanics to me have as much credibility as today tonight...

Helping developing countries to healthcare that means that they don't have to have enormous families to support them in their old age

eugenics...? even worse, eugenics based on economics... you really make me sick; ginge, if you think there too many people on this planet please kindly remove yourself from it

If climate change isn't happening, then we can abandon all these daft ideas and carry on as we are...


we might as well because the only thing that is coming about as a result of these 'changes' atributed to fighting climate change is increased taxes....



This is a mass of illogical wrong headed winging.

Carantoc
WA, 6640 posts
13 Sep 2010 11:23PM
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^^

But so is almost everything written here.

If it was logical, pleasant and titled correctly it would be somewhere more sensible that was actually worth reading

I personally strive to reply to illogical, poorly structured arguments with my own brand of extremist and nonsensical clap-trap, hopefully with mulitple spelling errors for others to point out.

If I wanted a sane and resonable argument I would go down the pub at 10.00pm and tell the barman very loudly that AFL is for girls.

cisco
QLD, 12325 posts
14 Sep 2010 1:08PM
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With this guys arguement it is logical to bet that global warming is fact and that we should do something about it.

This gives the best result of the four end scenarios.

The BIG question is exactly WHAT we should do about it. The solution being offered by the powers that be is "Tax the hell out of everybody."

Over 30 years ago the CSIRO ran a test experiment on sustainable energy independant housing in Canberra over a one year period. Canberra is not noted for abundant sunny weather.

They built a family house with the criteria that it had to have all the mod cons of the day (fridges, washing machines, TVs etc) and that a family would live in the house for a year without being connected to the power grid.

As a back up a diesel generator was set up on the property that would automaticly start up if voltage or battery power reserves dropped below a certain level.

The generator did not start up once during the period of the experiment. Therefore the experiment was a success. It was video documented and shown on national television. I saw it.

This begs the answering of two questions:-

1. What happened to the data gained from the experiment that you and I, the taxpayer, paid for??

2. The authorities were obviously aware of and concerned about the effects of power demands of suburban housing back then so why did they not do something about it then?? And, why is it that they are pushing the sustainable housing "band wagon" so excitedly now??

It is obvious that the government (successive elected and the beaurocracy)never gives the general public all the information it should, is addicted to more and more taxes and just cannot be trusted.

theDoctor
NSW, 5780 posts
14 Sep 2010 1:14PM
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www.iceagenow.com

morph89
SA, 54 posts
14 Sep 2010 1:25PM
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question. why are there still enormous arguments about the causation of climate change when the concept is redundant? wether or not humans are responsible for climate change is something that will never be know unless we can find a second planet to experiment on. assuming we have caused it we are to late to take any successful preventative action and if we are not responsible its going to be pointless to even try. shouldn't the focus be planing for the future and investigating how do live within a dynamic climate rather than ** slinging over weather or not we are responsible and what we should do about it?

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
14 Sep 2010 12:23PM
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PeterWac33 said...

911 was an inside job. It was inside 912 which nests within 913.

914 is a big sports bag full of 913s and it sits in a Porsche 915 parked in a garage at number 916 in postcode 2917.

It's all jobs within jobs. Big jobs


You got 914 and 915 around the wrong way. Its a Porsche 914. Sorry.

theDoctor
NSW, 5780 posts
14 Sep 2010 3:06PM
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either way they are still just impracticle overpriced uncomfortable wankmachines sold to tossers with a complex about their inadequate genitalia

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
14 Sep 2010 1:18PM
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theDoctor said...


either way they are still just impracticle overpriced uncomfortable wankmachines sold to tossers with a complex about their inadequate genitalia


Yea you can get good performance out of cheaper cars. But after working for Porsche they are awesome cars. Maybe impractical if you are going surfing, not if you are going to the track..

ginger pom
VIC, 1746 posts
14 Sep 2010 3:46PM
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theDoctor said...


either way they are still just impracticle overpriced uncomfortable wankmachines sold to tossers with a complex about their inadequate genitalia


I can't afford one either

log man
VIC, 8289 posts
14 Sep 2010 4:20PM
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theDoctor said...




www.iceagenow.com


Why believe that? do you believe that that information is better scientific information than the IPCC reports ? . Did you watch "insite " on SBS the other night, a repeat of a program with Stephen Schnieder called "climate change skeptics versus schnieder". Watch it, its very instructive, lots of half smart people with half baked ideas. It beats me that Schnieder, Korolly and there ilk aren't believed and are disrespected by a lot of the population

log man
VIC, 8289 posts
14 Sep 2010 4:26PM
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morph89 said...

question. why are there still enormous arguments about the causation of climate change when the concept is redundant? wether or not humans are responsible for climate change is something that will never be know unless we can find a second planet to experiment on. assuming we have caused it we are to late to take any successful preventative action and if we are not responsible its going to be pointless to even try. shouldn't the focus be planing for the future and investigating how do live within a dynamic climate rather than ** slinging over weather or not we are responsible and what we should do about it?


It is important to bring the population with you on this important issue. Bi partisanship at a political level is important. Is Your claim that nothing can be done evidence based or are you saying that because you don't want to do anything?

maxm
NSW, 864 posts
14 Sep 2010 5:53PM
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morph89 said...

question. why are there still enormous arguments about the causation of climate change when the concept is redundant? wether or not humans are responsible for climate change is something that will never be know unless we can find a second planet to experiment on. assuming we have caused it we are to late to take any successful preventative action and if we are not responsible its going to be pointless to even try. shouldn't the focus be planing for the future and investigating how do live within a dynamic climate rather than ** slinging over weather or not we are responsible and what we should do about it?


I think morph makes a valid point:

If we accept human induced climate change is caused through greenhouse gas emissions then the solution is to reduce greenhouse gases in the atmosphere

Alternatively:

If we insist climate change is caused through natural phenomena then ... what? Increases in greenhouse gases are therefore natural. But if we want to pull back the climate change effect then the solution is to reduce greenhouse gases in the atmosphere

Same solution regardless of whether humans are the cause. So the argument over cause becomes irrelevant.

OR!

You could argue (as cisco seems to) that climate change is a load of crap. OK, I'll go along with that for a sec. Now think about fossil fuels for a second and you'll realise they're running out. The solution is to use less of them... which results in reduced greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Still the same solution.

It's like the huge sign on the Baptist church up the road from my place. It reads "THE ANSWER IS JESUS". Doesn't seem to matter what the question was, you always get the same answer!

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
14 Sep 2010 4:29PM
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maxm said...

morph89 said...

question. why are there still enormous arguments about the causation of climate change when the concept is redundant? wether or not humans are responsible for climate change is something that will never be know unless we can find a second planet to experiment on. assuming we have caused it we are to late to take any successful preventative action and if we are not responsible its going to be pointless to even try. shouldn't the focus be planing for the future and investigating how do live within a dynamic climate rather than ** slinging over weather or not we are responsible and what we should do about it?


I think morph makes a valid point:

If we accept human induced climate change is caused through greenhouse gas emissions then the solution is to reduce greenhouse gases in the atmosphere

Alternatively:

If we insist climate change is caused through natural phenomena then ... what? Increases in greenhouse gases are therefore natural. But if we want to pull back the climate change effect then the solution is to reduce greenhouse gases in the atmosphere

Same solution regardless of whether humans are the cause. So the argument over cause becomes irrelevant.

OR!

You could argue (as cisco seems to) that climate change is a load of crap. OK, I'll go along with that for a sec. Now think about fossil fuels for a second and you'll realise they're running out. The solution is to use less of them... which results in reduced greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Still the same solution.

It's like the huge sign on the Baptist church up the road from my place. It reads "THE ANSWER IS JESUS". Doesn't seem to matter what the question was, you always get the same answer!


BOOBS (.)(.)

morph89
SA, 54 posts
15 Sep 2010 6:53PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote

It is important to bring the population with you on this important issue. Bi partisanship at a political level is important. Is Your claim that nothing can be done evidence based or are you saying that because you don't want to do anything?


its definitely not that i don;t want to do anything if climate change is man made, but more so the logistics of implementing a strategy that is going to nullify the effects of over 100 years of pumping green house gasses into the atmosphere. far to many developing countries rely heavily on fossil fuel for power because they cant afford alternative energy sources. also, heaps of countries rely heavily of fossil fuels to support their economy meaning it is gonna b bloody difficult to implement the kind of change that would have any impact.

log man
VIC, 8289 posts
15 Sep 2010 7:56PM
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So, we need to get into it then. Even if we don't have answers to some of the major questions of negating climate change should not mean we shouldn't go flat out at having a go at doing something. Maybe 5 or 10 years down the track some magic bullet will appear to make the reduction in greenhouse gasses a tangible force but for now I think we must jump in. If we obfuscate our responsibilities and dither or worse still choose to sit on the edges and throw stones at people trying to do something then all we do is play into the hands of the deniers whose agendas are definitely not in interests of the citizens

maxm
NSW, 864 posts
15 Sep 2010 8:15PM
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doggie said...

BOOBS (.)(.)


I think the admins deleted panda's last contribution doggie

cisco
QLD, 12325 posts
16 Sep 2010 2:39AM
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maxm said...

I think morph makes a valid point:

If we accept human induced climate change is caused through greenhouse gas emissions then the solution is to reduce greenhouse gases in the atmosphere

Alternatively:

If we insist climate change is caused through natural phenomena then ... what? Increases in greenhouse gases are therefore natural. But if we want to pull back the climate change effect then the solution is to reduce greenhouse gases in the atmosphere

Same solution regardless of whether humans are the cause. So the argument over cause becomes irrelevant.

OR!

You could argue (as cisco seems to) that climate change is a load of crap. OK, I'll go along with that for a sec. Now think about fossil fuels for a second and you'll realise they're running out. The solution is to use less of them... which results in reduced greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Still the same solution.

It's like the huge sign on the Baptist church up the road from my place. It reads "THE ANSWER IS JESUS". Doesn't seem to matter what the question was, you always get the same answer!


I do not believe "Climate Change" is crap. I believe it is a natural and cyclic phenomena and that apart from excessive nuclear explosions and irresponsible accidents like the recent "Gulf Oil Spill", human activities have a negligible effect on climate.

I DO believe that the notion of "Climate Change" is being used as a scaremongering tool by the ELITES to exert more control over the general population of the world and thereby a means to implement draconian laws limiting freedom and democracy.

Do I believe we should stop polluting the earth the way we are now?? Of course.

Do I believe we should adopt more responsible energy generation and uses?? Of course.

One of the first things we should do is get rid of these stupid V8 hot rod cars and utes the motor companies keep churning out.

If you own one you are a tool.

But of course these decisions are not in our hands are they??
It is Big Banks and Big Business that pull the puppet's (government's) strings isn't it??

The only thing the people have is BOYCOTT. Unfortunately that is only effective when it is concerted and unified.

BTW. On one thing I do concur. Morph does make a very valid point.

log man
VIC, 8289 posts
16 Sep 2010 10:39AM
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Cisco, Come on mate, don't do that "The ELITES want this and the new world order crap" . It's just silly.This is serious, and now's not the time to bugger around with half baked ideas. The overwhelming majority of scientists in all countries agree that something is happening, your cavalier attitude that it's natural (and I assume that the earth will stabilize itself) is living life on the highwire.

GreenPat
QLD, 4083 posts
16 Sep 2010 11:20AM
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cisco said...

#!












Too many youtubes, didn't watch.

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
16 Sep 2010 9:29AM
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maxm said...

doggie said...

BOOBS (.)(.)


I think the admins deleted panda's last contribution doggie


They were nice boobs too



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Punting the Odds on Climate Change. Hmmm." started by cisco