Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Qantas

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Created by choco > 9 months ago, 29 Oct 2011
pierrec45
NSW, 2005 posts
29 Oct 2011 11:34PM
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SomeOtherGuy said...


Qantas hasn't paid a dividend on its shares for 2 years. So the investors have got zero, the employees have got the shaft but Joyce has got a 71% pay rise. For what?

Dividends are not a right for shareholders, even with profitable companies on profitable years.
In general, investors do not get zero if there are no dividends.
Some stocks never have dividends and are worth mint.

Profitable companies can opt for retained earnings to increase the value of the stock over time, in some situations.

I think it was the case with Qantas in 2010 (REs, not increased value), and there are some retained earnings accumulated this year as well.

pierrec45
NSW, 2005 posts
29 Oct 2011 11:51PM
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This guy's salary: in my professional life, I have often criticised upper management - often whilst reporting directly to them.

Many times I have become privy to their real parameters, and almost invariably I ended up understanding where they were coming from.

Said driving forces are often gruesome: fire half the company, close shop, move to India, sell-off parts of company, outsource to the max, and so on. Often those parameters come from the Board, and the top dog has been chosen for that particular directive.

What I'm saying is: ultimately it's usually the board (or ultimate owner) that pay those dudes big $$ for a specific dirty job, possible outsourcing the workforce or closing shop in this case. Did he get the increase just to look good publicly? Unlikely.

Technically speaking, a few millions is a good ROI if he pulls whatever he's been asked to do well, esp. if it's bonuses.

saltiest1
NSW, 2496 posts
30 Oct 2011 12:32AM
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pierrec45 said...

This guy's salary: in my professional life, I have often criticised upper management - often whilst reporting directly to them.

Many times I have become privy to their real parameters, and almost invariably I ended up understanding where they were coming from.

Said driving forces are often gruesome: fire half the company, close shop, move to India, sell-off parts of company, outsource to the max, and so on. Often those parameters come from the Board, and the top dog has been chosen for that particular directive.

What I'm saying is: ultimately it's usually the board (or ultimate owner) that pay those dudes big $$ for a specific dirty job, possible outsourcing the workforce or closing shop in this case. Did he get the increase just to look good publicly? Unlikely.

Technically speaking, a few millions is a good ROI if he pulls whatever he's been asked to do well, esp. if it's bonuses.





exactly. hes taking it for the changes i outlined earlier, wich were hinted at publicly years ago. hes sold his soul really.

Greenroom
WA, 7608 posts
29 Oct 2011 10:36PM
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surfnsirhiss said...

Paddy Irish F&%K its not the unions that will kill the company it the new CEO who has just recieved a 71% pay raise and is hell bent on breaking up a good company and sending it off seas to justify his producivity shares bonus SHAME SHAME SHAME strange that it was done when all the attention was on CHOGM

Anything to get the attention off CHOGM is good

Greenroom
WA, 7608 posts
29 Oct 2011 10:39PM
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Chris6791 said...

I'm all for unions, to a point. They do make pay negotiations easier for the individual and the company when they negotiate for all. But somtimes I think unions lose sight of the bigger picture, the company is there for the benefit of the shareholders that invest, not the employers that work for them.

Anyone who works for a living that thinks their employer owes them anything more than wages and accrued leave entitlements are kidding themselves, it doesn't matter how long you have worked for the company they ultimately owe you nothing more than your next pay check.

So if you are a boss and you want loyalty... GET A DOG!

pierrec45
NSW, 2005 posts
30 Oct 2011 5:32AM
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Greenroom said...


So if you are a boss and you want loyalty... GET A DOG!

If you're a boss, you don't want nor expect loyalty. You expect commitment for what is paid for, none of that "today I'm only in at 62%" or "don't talk to me, I'm hungover" as someone told me recently.

People who do extra (which is nowadays nearly 100% only) do it not out of loyalty, but in order to get advancement or better pay - and that's OK.

Back to Qantas, unfortunately, to ask for a pay hike when your job can be outsourced is a risky business. It's not that the value of some workers has gone down from what it was, it's just that the same can be obtained cheaper in the new world economy.
I hope there's a resolve to all this, but it bodes not well...

gibberjoe
SA, 956 posts
30 Oct 2011 8:18AM
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If there is an Aussie or two in the cockpit and a few in the crew, that's a good

thing for me...........gotta be good!

noddy heads and bollywood birds, don't give me much con..fidence

An irish man dishing the direction......It's buggered bro, another Ansett

A dingy backyard maintiance shed....scares me [}:)]

Am I racist?, or just proudly and respectfully Australian.........

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
30 Oct 2011 8:02AM
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I had a BBQ with a striking Qantas employee a couple of weeks ago. He said that Qantas has already ordered the planes that will be their new brand based in Malaysia, they are striking to try and save their jobs in the full knowledge that the company is seeking full approval from it's shareholders and Aussie Govt to shut it down and put another in it's place.

The airlines are now all about price pointed travel. People fly on price, not service and the Qantas model if you believe that does not work anymore.

The way we are going all that will be left is government jobs, digging holes in the mines and tourism.

hamburglar
ACT, 2174 posts
30 Oct 2011 9:27AM
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Alan Joyce what a filthy, grubby, greedy, lieing, slimmy,dirty,peice or sh!t.

there definition of Agreement is agree with us or else what a grub.

moving jobs and services off shore by stealth ,makes me sick to here the
dribble spill from his mouth ,stumbled a bit when asked about his pay
rise . ha ha ha ha

FlySurfer
NSW, 4453 posts
30 Oct 2011 10:15AM
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Everything starting going to crap after Alan Joyce came in...

I blame:

1.- Qantas directors for getting the retard in... WTF he managed Ryan air a budget carrier, then another budget carrier Jet Star... then one of the best regarded airlines in the world, who did he root?

2.- Alan Joyce for being such a crunt.

3.- Australians for not running the crunt out the country.

And I think pay should be commensurate with company performance... eg: if the company net profit increases 5% then everyone gets a maximum 5% the following year.
Loses, work the same way - inflation.

Qantas could be run as a co-operative.



From their annual report: www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/about/investors/2010AnnualReport.pdf
Highlights of the year were:
— Underlying Profit Before Tax of $377 million
— Revenue of $13.8 billion
— Operating cash flow of $1.3 billion
— Cash held at year end of $3.7 billion

www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/about/investors/2009AnnualReport.pdf
Still comparatively good.

This is what it boils down to:
Alan: I can get pilots, and maintenance for 1/3 the price in Asia.
Unions: We need more money and job security.


BulldogPup
6657 posts
30 Oct 2011 7:44AM
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Richard Branson must be sitting back rubbing his hands together right now!!!!!
I watched last night on the idiotbox that Qantas do have the $$ to pay travellers food & lodging though - what a laugh!
This mob have simply turned on the workers AND the rest of australia .....

Little Jon
NSW, 2115 posts
30 Oct 2011 10:49AM
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Who is on strike here? this time it appears the mnagement is striking and grounding the airline.

CEOs should be paid on performance and qantas profits and share price are performing badly, Joyce ought to be sacked.

GalahOnTheBay
NSW, 4188 posts
30 Oct 2011 10:59AM
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As someone else said, it is the biggest game of chicken we have ever seen in Australia. Pass the popcorn please!

Old mate Joyce thinks he can work the system and force an answer, but now that he has started down this path he very well may get a different answer to the one he anticipated.

kiteboy dave said...

Just a thought.. do you think maybe 97% percent of shareholders at the AGM voted to approve his pay rise because they knew he was about to become Australia's most hated man?


Ever looked at who holds the majority of Qantas shares?

Hint: It's not mom and pop...

BulldogPup
6657 posts
30 Oct 2011 8:03AM
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GalahOnTheBay said...

As someone else said, it is the biggest game of chicken we have ever seen in Australia. Pass the popcorn please!

Old mate Joyce thinks he can work the system and force an answer, but now that he has started down this path he very well may get a different answer to the one he anticipated.

kiteboy dave said...

Just a thought.. do you think maybe 97% percent of shareholders at the AGM voted to approve his pay rise because they knew he was about to become Australia's most hated man?


Ever looked at who holds the majority of Qantas shares?

Hint: It's not mom and pop...


....sick thing is , Joyce won't give a flying bat turd - he'll be paid his multi-millions regardless.

Little Jon
NSW, 2115 posts
30 Oct 2011 11:11AM
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BulldogPup said...

Richard Branson must be sitting back rubbing his hands together right now!!!!!
I watched last night on the idiotbox that Qantas do have the $$ to pay travellers food & lodging though - what a laugh!
This mob have simply turned on the workers AND the rest of australia .....


Maybe Joyce is getting a bonus from Branson

Gizmo
SA, 2865 posts
30 Oct 2011 10:46AM
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GalahOnTheBay said...

Ever looked at who holds the majority of Qantas shares?

Hint: It's not mom and pop...


Have you a managed portfolio in your super fund? Chances are your a shareholder too

Remember the Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."

Little Jon
NSW, 2115 posts
30 Oct 2011 11:19AM
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"flying bat turd" haven't heard that one before

choco
SA, 4034 posts
30 Oct 2011 11:02AM
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subliminal message?

adolf
1862 posts
30 Oct 2011 8:37AM
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Little Jon
NSW, 2115 posts
30 Oct 2011 11:40AM
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Joyce has taken a leaf from abbott's book, next he will set fire to the aircraft

BulldogPup
6657 posts
30 Oct 2011 8:41AM
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^^^^^ hmmmmmm - yep!

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
30 Oct 2011 11:04AM
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Interesting article:

www.watoday.com.au/national/qantas-ceo-has-gone-mad-say-pilots-20111029-1mpk6.html

saltiest1
NSW, 2496 posts
30 Oct 2011 12:06PM
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im not sure joyce is the only bad guy here. the board wouldve known long ago of the plan and have used the union trouble as an opportunity for blame, and the excuse its needed to shut down an icon.
theres a dirty game going on here and a couple of people on the inside are keeping me up to date on the background of it all.
gotta say, i disagree with all the bs going on publicly. what a load of sh#*

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
30 Oct 2011 12:44PM
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If the QANTAS board representing the shareholders, want to base QANTAS in Malaysia or wherever then that is their right. The workers have the right to withdraw their labour. The company has the right to shut down their operations. The government has the right to do nothing as it appears to be doing, not because of any ideological non interventionist reason but because there are conflicting interests between its business mates and its union mates.

The powers that be should tell QANTAS this and advise them if QANTAS moves operations out of Australia then the domestic air passenger industry will be deregulated and opened up to foreign airlines. This would be a win for most airline travellers.

The main reasons QANTAS has a good safety record in Australia is the comparative emptiness of Australian skies and the clear weather we usually have. There is nothing intrinsicly safe about QANTAS as an airline.

This appears to be the end game of QANTAS being an Australian airline. Why does Australia need an Australian airline?



wodgina6722
WA, 229 posts
30 Oct 2011 10:16AM
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saltiest1 said...

im not sure joyce is the only bad guy here. the board wouldve known long ago of the plan and have used the union trouble as an opportunity for blame, and the excuse its needed to shut down an icon.
theres a dirty game going on here and a couple of people on the inside are keeping me up to date on the background of it all.
gotta say, i disagree with all the bs going on publicly. what a load of sh#*


Agreed. This is a well planned move by QANTAS unions get the blame and QANTAS can get on with moving offshore rebranding.

two birds with one stone (pun not intended)

FlySurfer
NSW, 4453 posts
30 Oct 2011 2:24PM
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GalahOnTheBay said...
Ever looked at who holds the majority of Qantas shares?

Hint: It's not mom and pop...


It usually appears as National or Domestic Stocks on your super statement.

Chris6791
WA, 3271 posts
30 Oct 2011 12:22PM
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It's a sad day when Qantas is bigger news than three dead aussie diggers in Afghanistan

russh
SA, 3025 posts
30 Oct 2011 3:01PM
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Maybe I could sell my virgin tickets on eBay make a motza and drive home - I'm at a conference in Sydney - guest speakers didn't arrive and half the people don't know when they'll get home - ps Richard Branson would probably have a nude blonde model to rub his hands together for him - and possibly other regions

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
30 Oct 2011 3:06PM
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Is this even a serious post?

Why do we need an airline? Because it employs Australians and if we keep sending our jobs overseas there will be no jobs left here....

Mobydisc said...

If the QANTAS board representing the shareholders, want to base QANTAS in Malaysia or wherever then that is their right. The workers have the right to withdraw their labour. The company has the right to shut down their operations. The government has the right to do nothing as it appears to be doing, not because of any ideological non interventionist reason but because there are conflicting interests between its business mates and its union mates.

The powers that be should tell QANTAS this and advise them if QANTAS moves operations out of Australia then the domestic air passenger industry will be deregulated and opened up to foreign airlines. This would be a win for most airline travellers.

The main reasons QANTAS has a good safety record in Australia is the comparative emptiness of Australian skies and the clear weather we usually have. There is nothing intrinsicly safe about QANTAS as an airline.

This appears to be the end game of QANTAS being an Australian airline. Why does Australia need an Australian airline?






Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
30 Oct 2011 5:56PM
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Yeah it's serious. Why do we need a national airline? They seem to be a symbol of national prestige from the twentieth century. However as has been mentioned above airlines today are basically bus companies where people buy seats based on the lowest price.

So we have a decision to make. Do we maintain an an international airline in Australia that is not competitive internationally? I heard an airline analyst discuss this. He said QANTAS international operations are uncompetitive for a number of reasons.

Firstly QANTAS is competing against government owned national carriers who don't pay tax.

Secondly QANTAS being based in Australia is out of the way of international routes. Australia is not a hub for international travel.

Thirdly Australian based operations are more expensive than those overseas in Asian countries, primarily due to high airport costs, high taxes, a large amount of regulations and high wages.

So we have the choice of having a national carrier that has a very marginally profitable business or in some way having the non traveling public to subsidise the business. It is morally wrong for travelers who can afford to fly to receive a subsidised fare at the expense of the non flying public, many of whom could not afford to fly. This was the situation we had when QANTAS was government owned.

So unless we want to go back to that situation and pay for it through either higher taxes or lower public services we should understand why QANTAS wants to move operations overseas. However I strongly believe if they do move, QANTAS and its subsidaries should be treated like any other international airline in the domestic air market. QANTAS management is acting ruthlessly and they should be treated the same in turn.



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"Qantas" started by choco