Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Save the NBN - Petition

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Created by evlPanda > 9 months ago, 11 Sep 2013
Carantoc
WA, 6666 posts
13 Sep 2013 9:58AM
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The only thing more dumb than thinking that T Abbott will take any notice of an internet petition is trying to hold a reasonable argument with Macroscien

I would suggest you don't waste your time doing either

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
13 Sep 2013 12:04PM
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Gizmo said..

Is anyone actually producing TV material in 4k yet?......



Is anyone actually producing TV material in Full HD yet?

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
13 Sep 2013 12:07PM
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dirtyharry said..

CMC said..
As someone who works from home and connects to my office remotely in another country I can tell you the current adsl 2 network is far from fast enough....


And as someone who does the same I can honestly say that it's more than enough for what I need.




Yep, you're right exactly the same as me right?

Try having your designers having to low res everything so it doesnt take 2 hours to download and work off downloaded back up system files rather than live as the connection is too slow to deal with it. Most of the time I can not even have a good Video chat on skype with any other country.

That's now, the files arent getting any smaller, the tech demands are not shrinking.

Given that I was asked to present to the professors and course development committee for the MBA program at the local university due to growth in home office and remote workers this type of work and demands for it are not shrinking either.

Sure, you get by now, you learn to click download and take a tea break to wait. It just could be better, that's all. BTW I am not sure that I disagree with your comment that perhaps every single house in the country needs it at this moment but it needs to happen if we as a geographically remote country want to be a part of the modern world.

It also doesnt seem to make sense to do a half baked job 1st time around and then have to pay more than the original version to fix it all again later.

Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
13 Sep 2013 12:10PM
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Future is wireless. Suppose that you all succeed with your petition to waste 50 billion on fixed cables network.
The next day everybody will be screaming for next 50 billions for better coverage of their mobile phones and mobile internet ?

Everything from phones to computers and drills become more and more wireless.
Imagine next genius proposer that come with national plan to equip now everybody in the country with new powerful corded drill 2500W, 25 kg each.
In order to stimulate our building industry. More power means we could build much more homes faster ! ?

Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
13 Sep 2013 12:20PM
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Carantoc said..

The only thing more dumb than thinking that T Abbott will take any notice of an internet petition is trying to hold a reasonable argument with Macroscien

I would suggest you don't waste your time doing either


Sorry mate if I am stopping you on your way





evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
13 Sep 2013 1:06PM
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Macroscien said..
Future is wireless.


You do not understand wireless.


It's an obvious question that everybody asks, "why not wireless". It being such an obvious question should raise a flag to you that it has obviously been considered.

...although wireless will certainly be a part of the final configuration, and obviously will handle most of the home network.

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
13 Sep 2013 1:28PM
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Carantoc said..

The only thing more dumb than thinking that T Abbott will take any notice of an internet petition is trying to hold a reasonable argument with Macroscien

I would suggest you don't waste your time doing either


Best comment so far.

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
13 Sep 2013 1:38PM
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Macroscien said..

kiteboy dave said..
Go away.


Don't be shy, Send your picture to the contest



I mean picture of your mind

...in fact that could be the best outcome... allow maroons to dribble their seed into the ground instead of repopulating the earth


Macro in this thread you've really reinforced the mental image of you that I've built up over the years.

You've come in late, had some interesting ideas straight which although interesting in their own right are completely irrelevant to the discussion, totally ignored the last few months worth of reasonably intelligent discussion we've had on the issue, spouted a whole lot of random semi-gibberish, and basically sh-A-t all over this thread. I'm taking Carantoc's advice and disengaging, it's the only sane option.

Your username kinda sums it up - you see yourself as a bit of a crazy professor guy, coming up with all these ideas about boats and cars and bikes. You're an avid reader of Scientific American, Nexus, whatever but the problem is that you just skim the articles, read the infographics, drool over the pretty pictures. The science behind it evades you, but that doesn't stop you firming a strong opinion on the subject. Much like your username, you love the idea of science but you can't spell it.




dirtyharry
WA, 444 posts
13 Sep 2013 11:45AM
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CMC said..

Yep, you're right exactly the same as me right?



Nope, and neither is every household in Australia. And neither did I say that we are exactly the same for that matter. You said you work from home linked to an office outside Australia, I said I do the same. You said you need faster data to do it, I said I don't. We clearly do quite different work.

And that was my point - just because you and 10, 100, 1,000 or 1,000,000 people need it doesn't mean that every single household in Australia also needs it. But I'm all for you and anyone else who wants or needs it having access to fast internet.

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
13 Sep 2013 3:16PM
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dirtyharry said..


CMC said..

Yep, you're right exactly the same as me right?




Nope, and neither is every household in Australia. And neither did I say that we are exactly the same for that matter. You said you work from home linked to an office outside Australia, I said I do the same. You said you need faster data to do it, I said I don't. We clearly do quite different work.

And that was my point - just because you and 10, 100, 1,000 or 1,000,000 people need it doesn't mean that every single household in Australia also needs it. But I'm all for you and anyone else who wants or needs it having access to fast internet.


Well it seems we are dissagreeingly agreeing.

dirtyharry
WA, 444 posts
13 Sep 2013 1:24PM
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No we're not!

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
13 Sep 2013 4:19PM
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dirtyharry said..

No we're not!


Exactly.

Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
13 Sep 2013 4:49PM
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kiteboy dave said..

You've come in late, had some interesting ideas straight

Thank you...
I will do the same and disengage from discussion ( in order to utilize my existing internet access in more productive way, maybe Forex for a while to get some money for new board )

Just for reference I had fiber provided to my door step 10 years ago already. Not big deal. But you need to carry hell a lot equipment to utilize this in full.
Then 5 years ago I switched to cloud computing ( rings a bell ?) and have now access to 10000x faster computers, unlimited storage, free backup, head free of safety of equipment and data, access from any place in the world.
All this for the fraction of the price....
bye kiteboy

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
13 Sep 2013 5:11PM
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Stevej, 30 years in IT and Telecoms. Reposted for those that are genuinely interested in understanding the issue.
Apologies to Steve J for pinching it, but I'm guessing he'd rather facts get spread around than not.
I would encourage to follow the link and read it there, better formatting.
stevej-on-nbn.blogspot.com/


Summary

"NBN Lite" is the OPPOSITE of how it's been portrayed in the media: giving us better Broadband but for less.
It's an inferior service that will cost the same, or more, to build and operate.
It will cost taxpayers $70 billion or more by 2040, NOT make them $30 billion or more by then.
Fibre NBN doesn't just make money, it matches need and service, making everyone happy.
Tiered pricing reduces costs to the majority, while allowing those who put a high monetary value on their time, to swap money for time. That's real consumer choice.
The Fibre NBN profits all come from the top 25% of users, the rest of us get a free-ride.


What Turnbull didn't say:
What will the NBN cost the taxpayer? It isn't any number you've been told.
$12.5 billion in interest payments to 2033, mainly from 2018, until the loan is paid off.
Then, over the next 7 years to 2040, the NBN returns $40-$45 billion. The taxpayer is better off by $30 billion at least.
NBN Co is already 12-18 months ahead of financial forecasts. Keep up these early wins and it's like a house mortgage, small payments early on result in massive gains later. Because paying off the loans are NBN Co's highest cost, just like a house.
How much PROFIT will "NBN Lite" generate? NONE, it makes a $10 billion loss over 20 years.
Turnbull acknowledges it costs more to operate and maintain the Copper/VDSL network, but artfully hides just how this destroys the business.
If NBN Lite charges $16 wholesale per line, they can just cover interest and maintenance and be "cashflow positive", but they can't pay-off the loans or cover depreciation.
In 20 years "NBN Lite" will not only cost the taxpayer $40 billion in interest, they will still have to payback the $30 billion in loans.
Turnbull's "NBN Lite" plan will cost the taxpayer $70 billion by 2040, not leave them $30 billion better off. There is a $100 billion difference, but not the way Turnbull calls it.

Who's figures do you Trust?

One of the central criticisms of the current NBN by Turnbull is the "cost". It's NOT the cost to taxpayers he discusses, but the Budget of NBN Co, they're very different to begin with. Taxpayers don't have to meet ANY of the NBN expenses, only pay the interest on the loans to fund the business.

It's the difference between paying for a house in cash or taking out a mortgage and paying off the loan over 25 years. That's a massive difference, as every home-owner can tell you, but reality doesn't fit with the Coalition confabulated narrative.

The ALP did not create the NBN Co Corporate Plan. NBN Co is a business staffed with subject-area experts. They will be held accountable to their management and ultimately the NBN Co Board, for meeting their forecasts. These are industry professionals, experts in their field, doing their best work. They don't just make up numbers or parrot what their ALP overlords dictate to them. The Labor government set their maximum equity contribution, gave the design rules and stood back.

Turnbull would like people to think he knows more than the highly-experienced, expert professionals in every field of NBN Co, and that magically and mysteriously, they've overlooked risk factors that will blow out their project costs by a shattering 2-3 times.

That just doesn't happen with professionally run big civil projects. If unforeseen events occur, the project halts and is rebudgeted, redesigned or, if necessary, scaled-back or cancelled. No Professional is stupid enough to overspend a well run Engineering projects by 200%, it's a "strawman" argument at very best.

NBN Co has anticipated real risks to the project. They are well documented and included in the current Corporate Plan. They even have a 10% contingency set aside, as is good industry practice.

Who are you going to trust for accurate figures: a small bunch of faceless, self-serving, politically motivated non-experts surrounding Turnbull, or the multitude of highly experienced, professional experts within NBN Co?

Despite his claims of being unchallenged, Turnbull's wildly exaggerated "Stress tests" (my term) have been questioned and refuted in the media many times over and were never taken seriously by any Telecommunications Engineers, Accountants, Financiers or Economists. They don't make sense and never have made sense.


Cheaper

The on-budget, direct cost to the taxpayer is solely the interest on the loans taken by the Government to contribute equity to NBN Co.

The NBN Co Budget is something entirely different and includes loans it arranges for itself. Both the Coalition and Labor have never separated the two. The NBN Co Budget, be it $20.5 billion, $44.1 billion or something else is NOT what comes out of the taxpayer's pocket.

"NBN Lite" is identical to the current plan except for ONE change: 75% of Fibre services, 8.968M lines, will be replaced by FTTN (Fibre to the Node) using VDSL2.

That part of the NBN Budget is just $12 billion and Turnbull estimates $8.1 billion to build his FTTN at $900/line. This can be at most a $4 billion saving, 10% of the whole budget. A far cry from the oft-repeated claim "VDSL only costs one quarter of Fibre". (It does, if you ignore the majority of costs!)

Somehow, Turnbull saves $17 billion out of a $12 billion budget. That is a trick he has never explained.

But there are two BIG ticket items that Turnbull has craftily hidden away in his "NBN Lite" plan:
For FTTN, he isn't going to provide the CPE (Customer Premises Equipment) which NBN call an NTD (Network Termination Device). For the other three networks, Fibre, Wireless and Satellite, NTD's are included. It's like making the inside of a car "optional".
In Dec 2008, Telstra at their NBN Demonstration said "VDSL is much harder than you think" and specifically included a VDSL NTD with an integrated Central Splitter in their design, warning that without it, services would NOT be of an acceptable standard. [Full Telstra doc]
No NTD option is offered for FTTN/VDSL in "NBN Lite".
"NBN Lite" transfers all CPE capital and maintenance costs onto the subscribers. Over 20 years, this is upwards of $1,000 per customer, or $5-10 billion extra that's just ignored.
"NBN Lite" makes allowance for wastage, not all the money spent on FTTN will be useful for a final Fibre to the Premises network.
This deliberate wastage was the reason why the Expert Panel rejected all FTTN proposals in 2008 and recommended jumping straight to full Fibre.
Turnbull puts this figure at half the cost of his FTTN build ("50% CapEx Reuse"), but doesn't include this charge against his project:
"NBN Lite" costs an additional $4 billion in wasted investment on FTTN.
The "NBN Lite" plan is touted by Turnbull and the Coalition as saving $17 billion, off the Budget, not from taxpayer funds, yet it cannot.

Instead, at most it can save $4 billion, while adding $5+ billion in costs only borne by VDSL customers AND ignoring $4 billion in deliberate wastage.

"NBN Lite" costs the same, or 10% more, than the current plan. Why would anyone think an inferior service, that is designed to be thrown away, for the same price would be a good idea?


Sooner

In 2002, Telstra was under financial pressure as it's main source of revenue, the PSTN (telephone network) was in 2005 described by Sol Trujillo as being "in meltdown".

Leading up to then, the explosive growth in both Internet use and mobile phones was well known inside Telstra and broadly within the Industry. From 1997 onwards, it was a matter of when, not if, Telstra would get into serious financial trouble and a new digital-from-scratch broadband network was necessary.

Yet the Howard Government did nothing about creating a strong, viable 21st Century network for Australia for a decade. There were many studies, recommendations and even the odd billion dollars dropped on the problem, but by 2007, we were still in a digital backwater.

In 2005, the new Telstra CEO created a table-thumping presentation about the need to reform the business and build Broadband. The Liberals ignored it then and in 2007, contributing to their electoral loss. They backed up to the 2010 election with an inadequate NBN plan and again, failed to carry the day.

From 1997 onwards when the Coalition was in control, Telstra could have been structurally separated easily AND a good broadband network could have have been built with no Government funding, if they'd been allowed.

For more than a decade the Liberal/Nationals did not act when they needed to and could have, and then they continued this policy for another 5 years! This antipathy to Broadband runs deep.

So finally in 2013, after deliberately and consciously creating the current situation, they now want to claim that speed is of the essence.

Why the urgency for "NBN Lite"? Turnbull has never offered a good explanation.

The actual "NBN Lite" end date is 2020, or 2019. A one year improvement over the current 2021 end-date. So why is a one year speed-up so important after 15 years of inaction and resistance?


More Affordable

As said above, NBN Co can set wholesale prices, but the ISP's can set any retail price they like.
But the real story is "if you charge one third less and it costs you four times as much to deliver the service, how can you still make a profit?".

The Government does NOT and cannot control retail NBN pricing. Why would the ISP's, especially Telstra, pass on, even in part, any savings?

It's not sophistry, there's a serious marketing point here. Customers are very tired of battling with incredibly complex and difficult "rate cards" from Telcos, especially with mobiles and smartphones.

ISP's, especially Telstra, are likely to offer simple NBN pricing, with a single price for each service speed. The entry level, 12/1Mbps services are likely to be the same just like now, with NO difference depending on Network: Fibre, Wireless or Satellite.

If the ISP's supply and maintain the missing VDSL NTD and Central Splitter for FTTN customers, they will be justified in charging both a service connection fee and not passing on any savings.

Customers on VDSL will not see any savings compared to Fibre, rather they will face higher "out of pocket" and connection charges and on-going maintenance, over and above what other NBN customers pay for in home connections.


Media Coverage, Costings and the PBO (Parliamentary Budget Office)

The greatest coup of the Turnbull disinformation campaign was having Alan Kohler, doyen of the Business Media, come out the day after the Policy launch (10 April) and declare "NBN Lite" was good enough.

Without costings, without financial forecasts, without charges or costs, without on going debt & equity figures, without a payback period or Rate of Return, in fact without ANY financial data necessary for a $30 thousand, let alone $30 billion investment.

Rather than attempt to analyse the Coalition Policy, question them and dig out the numbers, the Media quietly walked away from it, choosing to quote, as fact, the unverified project cost figures given by the Coalition

The PBO did not review the Coalition NBN Policy costings, nor was anything offered them.

They don't seem to understand the basic rules of accounting either: if it's not under your control, then it's NOT on your balance sheet and it does not affect you.

The PBO would've taken less than an hour to check both the ALP and Liberal Party on-budget costs, interest payments, if they'd been given the forecast Equity figures. It's that simple.

So why haven't any of the media reported on this or asked the Coalition for that information?
Especially after the election, does the public have a right to know what it is now committed to paying from its taxes?


Other Myths

The proponents of slower, inferior Broadband ask "Who needs higher speeds?"

That's easy: anyone who puts a monetary value on their time.

48%-49% of ISP connections are current "Business/Government", according to the ABS.
They value their time, currently around $120/hr to keep an average employee, and can work out what it's worth to save download time.

This is why NBN Co has sold 31% of services at 100/40 Mbps, the highest current speed, not the 18% forecast. This increases their AVC (access charges) by an easy 10% over the forecast.

Later this year, they're scheduled to turn on 3 higher speeds (250, 500 and 1000), and increase their income from access charges by another 10%-20%. This extra service speed doesn't cost NBN Co anything.

What's going on here? It's why NBN Co is going to be immensely profitable and what Turnbull has tried desperately to hide from the electorate: NBN Co can sell exactly the same physical Fibre connection for anything from $24 to $150, AND have all customers very happy with what they pay.

In Economics, it's called "removing consumer surplus". Current ISP ADSL pricing plans, which Turnbull hasn't said he will or won't continue with, are "One size, one price Fits All". This makes most customers unhappy, either because they get charged more or they can't get a fast enough service.

We know from a report in 2009 that includes a detailed economic model of the NBN done by the current NBN Chief of Pricing, that a "one price fits all" regime would charge the majority entry-level plans more than 3 times the current $50/mth of iiNet, or 2.5 to 8 times if uniform charging is also abandoned.
... for the most likely estimate of $170 per month, unit costs in metropolitan areas are of $133 per month, while those in non-metropolitan areas are just under $380.
For "NBN Lite" to not include their charges or clarify their pricing model can only mean bad news for consumers. Politicians always proclaim good news from the highest points.

The reality of a "one speed, one price" VDSL model for "NBN Lite" is entry-level charges need to increase by 50%-100%, while high-end charges reduce, those users would rather pay more to swap their money for time and make massive savings in wage costs. It's incredibly strange that the party that's "open again for business" doesn't understand how businesses look to reduce their total expenditures.

The world isn't well ordered, all the people wanting fast access rates aren't clustered together, around what will be decided as a "Node". Nor are all businesses located in business parks etc. The whole point of running out the ONE system, everywhere, is that anybody who needs faster access can do so without delay, cost or impediment. This is lost with FTTN/VDSL.

This leads to the next point: Who pays for the NBN? The low-volume users or speed hogs?

The entire profits of the Fibre NBN come from the top 25% of users, the rest of us either get NBN services at cost or below.

This is because the use of the internet is very uneven, it's an exponential, in fact.

The top 1% of users consume half-as-much data again as the low 50% of users: the top 1% account for 10% of downloads and the bottom half 6.24%.

The Fibre NBN is the best deal any of us are ever likely to be offered in our lifetimes. If we want speed, we can have it, if we don't then others pay for us.

If you remember the claim of "tripling of charges" by the Coalition, it's another upside-down argument. Yes, NBN Co are forecasting an Average Revenue Per User (ARPU) of $110 in 2040, but that's because customers who value the service will want to pay for it AND download large volumes, mostly for their businesses.

Neither has the media reported that NBN Co revenues are 12-18 months in advance of forecasts on all fronts. This is really important, it proves the Corporate Plan is conservative and that the reality will be far, far better than people expect. It's not unreasonable for a Fibre NBN Co to cost under $30 billion and return over 15%, simply because there is such large "pent-up demand" from a decade of inaction by the Coalition.

The NBN is about Business, Productivity Growth, Efficiency and reducing drags on our Economy. That it will be used, in very small part, for Entertainment, even Adult content, is an irrelevance. It's like banning ALL glossy magazines because there's a very small number with X-rated content. Adult content is a fact of life, it's still commerce and it's largely an irrelevance.

The Internet grew up in the 15 years the Coalition weren't watching, it's now about Business and the Economy.


Summary

"NBN Lite" is the OPPOSITE of how it's been portrayed in the media: giving us better Broadband but for less.
It's an inferior service that will cost the same, or more, to build and operate.
It will cost taxpayers $70 billion or more by 2040, NOT make them $30 billion or more by then.
Fibre NBN doesn't just make money, it matches need and service, making everyone happy.
Tiered pricing reduces costs to the majority, while allowing those who put a high monetary value on their time, to swap money for time. That's real consumer choice.
The Fibre NBN profits all come from the top 25% of users, the rest of us get a free-ride.

Issa
355 posts
13 Sep 2013 4:42PM
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dirtyharry said..

CMC said..

Yep, you're right exactly the same as me right?



And that was my point - just because you and 10, 100, 1,000 or 1,000,000 people need it doesn't mean that every single household in Australia also needs it.


Most houses in Australia don't need a road running past their door.... yet they do. Consequently, they are valued highly.

airjunkie
WA, 142 posts
13 Sep 2013 9:19PM
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Carantoc said..

The only thing more dumb than thinking that T Abbott will take any notice of an internet petition is trying to hold a reasonable argument with Macroscien

I would suggest you don't waste your time doing either


macro's (very very) special point of view is like a tractor beam that makes you want to correct him

twice now i have replied to him directly when i have no wish of engaging him in any form of communication


. . . . . from now on i will take Carantoc's advice

Skid
QLD, 1499 posts
14 Sep 2013 3:23PM
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kiteboy dave said..

Carantoc said..

The only thing more dumb than thinking that T Abbott will take any notice of an internet petition is trying to hold a reasonable argument with Macroscien

I would suggest you don't waste your time doing either


Best comment so far.


This reminds me of a saying that I find myself using at work all too often...

"Never try to teach a pig to sing....
It wastes your time and annoys the pig"

(this is not directed at any particular person)

That is all, carry on.....

Dawso
NSW, 72 posts
14 Sep 2013 5:04PM
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kiteboy dave said..

Stevej, 30 years in IT and Telecoms. Reposted for those that are genuinely interested in understanding the issue.
Apologies to Steve J for pinching it, but I'm guessing he'd rather facts get spread around than not.
I would encourage to follow the link and read it there, better formatting.
stevej-on-nbn.blogspot.com/



Typical government take moderate $$$ out of CAPX and hide massive $$$ in OPEX.

Harrow
NSW, 4521 posts
14 Sep 2013 6:14PM
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Dawso said..

$$$ out of CAPX and hide massive $$$ in OPEX.

Arrggghhhh!!! I have to listen those phrases all day at work. They should be banned on this site. Language moderators where are you???

FormulaNova
WA, 14731 posts
14 Sep 2013 6:26PM
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Harrow said..

Dawso said..

$$$ out of CAPX and hide massive $$$ in OPEX.

Arrggghhhh!!! I have to listen those phrases all day at work. They should be banned on this site. Language moderators where are you???



What? CAPEX and OPEX? What was that again? CAPEX and OPEX? Why would you ban CAPEX and OPEX?

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
15 Sep 2013 2:04PM
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Interestingly reTurnball has just declared no change to current NBN laws until at least mid 2014.

So it's either

a/ a victory after 250k signatures -1st step in quietly continuing the NBN the public wants.

or

b/ a strategic pause to let the heat die down a bit.

or

c/ never wanted to change anything, and the whole fraudband thing was just making use of reTurnball to attack Labor on another front - to keep him quiet with busywork while scoring a few bonus points.

Fingers crossed.

chrispy
WA, 9675 posts
15 Sep 2013 12:35PM
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kiteboy dave said...
Interestingly reTurnball has just declared no change to current NBN laws until at least mid 2014.

So it's either

a/ a victory after 250k signatures -1st step in quietly continuing the NBN the public wants.

or

b/ a strategic pause to let the heat die down a bit.

or

c/ never wanted to change anything, and the whole fraudband thing was just making use of reTurnball to attack Labor on another front - to keep him quiet with busywork while scoring a few bonus points.

Fingers crossed.


Wow your betting on three different horses to win the race.
Or d,you have no idea and just like to speculate like an old woman

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
15 Sep 2013 3:04PM
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Nothing to add? go tag some more fences

Mr float
NSW, 3452 posts
15 Sep 2013 7:34PM
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I just watched the footy on the nbn .it was pretty good

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
15 Sep 2013 9:25PM
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dirtyharry said..

CMC said..

Yep, you're right exactly the same as me right?



Nope, and neither is every household in Australia. And neither did I say that we are exactly the same for that matter. You said you work from home linked to an office outside Australia, I said I do the same. You said you need faster data to do it, I said I don't. We clearly do quite different work.

And that was my point - just because you and 10, 100, 1,000 or 1,000,000 people need it doesn't mean that every single household in Australia also needs it. But I'm all for you and anyone else who wants or needs it having access to fast internet.


I'm using a VPN and then remote desktop when working from home. I imagine this is and will be the most common method of working from home.

I don't know about you guys but the 6mbps I'm getting is just enough to work from home 1 day a week, perhaps 2. It's seriously not fast enough for anything serious. Seriously. The delay between the keyboard and screen is too much. Sometimes there's a 3 second delay. All day. It wrecks your train of thought.

The irony is I can almost see both Turnbull's office and my office from here.

...I suppose my point is the current infrastructure isn't really good enough to work from home, effectively. If I could work from home 2 or 3 days a week that is reducing my load on public transport by ~50%. And if enough people did the same traffic would be reduced by the same amount. Think of all the savings just there alone.

chrispy
WA, 9675 posts
16 Sep 2013 5:14AM
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kiteboy dave said...
Nothing to add? go tag some more fences


Your fence is looking like a good place to start.

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
16 Sep 2013 8:49AM
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chrispy said..
nothing of value.


Big kids discussion here.

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
16 Sep 2013 11:29AM
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evlPanda said..

dirtyharry said..

CMC said..

Yep, you're right exactly the same as me right?



Nope, and neither is every household in Australia. And neither did I say that we are exactly the same for that matter. You said you work from home linked to an office outside Australia, I said I do the same. You said you need faster data to do it, I said I don't. We clearly do quite different work.

And that was my point - just because you and 10, 100, 1,000 or 1,000,000 people need it doesn't mean that every single household in Australia also needs it. But I'm all for you and anyone else who wants or needs it having access to fast internet.


I'm using a VPN and then remote desktop when working from home. I imagine this is and will be the most common method of working from home.

I don't know about you guys but the 6mbps I'm getting is just enough to work from home 1 day a week, perhaps 2. It's seriously not fast enough for anything serious. Seriously. The delay between the keyboard and screen is too much. Sometimes there's a 3 second delay. All day. It wrecks your train of thought.

The irony is I can almost see both Turnbull's office and my office from here.

...I suppose my point is the current infrastructure isn't really good enough to work from home, effectively. If I could work from home 2 or 3 days a week that is reducing my load on public transport by ~50%. And if enough people did the same traffic would be reduced by the same amount. Think of all the savings just there alone.


Yep, this is how we do it. The VPN I use is not fast enough to use it effectively. I have my team save backup folders which I then download over long times and then use a local version. Out of date within 20 minutes of download. Even to view art files etc takes forever to download. I'm reduced to using dropbox with low res to work in any kind of efficient way.

I can't operate on the remote desktop for the reasons you mention.

Ironically in a hotel room in the USA or anywhere in Europe last year my connections worked fine and way faster than here so the Aussie network needs an upgrade for this to be workable.








adolf
1862 posts
16 Sep 2013 9:54AM
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How many people on the petition now fellas?

FormulaNova
WA, 14731 posts
16 Sep 2013 5:41PM
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Select to expand quote
adolf said..

How many people on the petition now fellas?



I didn't sign. Due to laziness mainly, but I wouldn't expect a government to change its policy to that of the opposition just on the strength of a petition, after they have gotten in.

Right about now they will be looking at the books backwards, forwards, and sidewards looking for the proof that the previous government were inept. So they are hardly going to back the same horse.

Do you think there really are people that want the NBN that voted Liberal? I doubt it, and even if they were and I were the Liberal party, I would ignore them too.

Having said all this, it would be hilarious if they figured out that the existing model would cost them nothing or less than their own suggested model. Bet you wouldn't be reading about that in the papers any time soon.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Save the NBN - Petition" started by evlPanda