Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Shark things out of hand in WA

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Created by king of the point > 9 months ago, 14 Jul 2012
brad1
QLD, 232 posts
16 Jul 2012 9:07PM
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What gives the human race the right to kill/cull/slaughter other species to promote its own population.
Fact:
1800's Human population 1 billion
now 7 billion
only 12 years ago it was 6 billion.
Population growth is out of control.

With more population, more people will be in the water so expect more attacks.
Pretty simple people.
As the population grows so too the number of people with the "gotta cull" attitude grows.
Food for thought

Dawn Patrol
WA, 1991 posts
16 Jul 2012 7:10PM
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PaddlePig said...

Listen people, I can not applaud your intelligence enough. The support for a cull is fantastic! This is our opportunity. I don't believe there has been a more serious topic ever discussed on these forums. In the past we've had people writing letters to politicians to condemn / support a shark cull. This is our chance to make ourselves heard. I've written to Colin Barnett twice before but I think this time we might have more support. Make sure your voice is heard.




So are you bascically calling people not in favour unintelligent? A bit rich considering your previous comment in this thread...

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
16 Jul 2012 7:12PM
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I can take "food for thought" but becoming food for sharks in not an acceptable method of family planning.
I totally agree we are far too many but it is insane to regard accepting shark attacks on people as a way of keeping our numbers in check.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
16 Jul 2012 9:17PM
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brad1 said...

What gives the human race the right to kill/cull/slaughter other species to promote its own population.



The same right that sharks have to eat people. The law of nature.

However we have intelligence and wealth to learn about them and develop systems to avoid confrontation. It would not cost a huge amount of money to have an aerial shark patrol to look for sharks hanging around people in the water. The information the patrol gathered would be valuable and could be sold to cover some of the costs.


pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
16 Jul 2012 7:19PM
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Dawn Patrol said...

PaddlePig said...

Listen people, I can not applaud your intelligence enough. The support for a cull is fantastic! This is our opportunity. I don't believe there has been a more serious topic ever discussed on these forums. In the past we've had people writing letters to politicians to condemn / support a shark cull. This is our chance to make ourselves heard. I've written to Colin Barnett twice before but I think this time we might have more support. Make sure your voice is heard.




So are you bascically calling people not in favour unintelligent? A bit rich considering your previous comment in this thread...



I would call them paralysed to the point of inaction by their own supposed intellignce due to over complicating what is a simple and straightforward problem.
You can consider and complicate the issue all you like but when that results in the most obvious and cost effective solution being totally ignored for over 10 years, you can hardly call that intelligent action.
And after doing nothing effective for over 10 years, you can hardly call any action now taken, "a knee jerk reaction".
A dead cow in the paddock would have reactions faster than that if only from the action of the maggots.

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
16 Jul 2012 7:27PM
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Mobydisc said...

brad1 said...

What gives the human race the right to kill/cull/slaughter other species to promote its own population.



The same right that sharks have to eat people. The law of nature.

However we have intelligence and wealth to learn about them and develop systems to avoid confrontation. It would not cost a huge amount of money to have an aerial shark patrol to look for sharks hanging around people in the water. The information the patrol gathered would be valuable and could be sold to cover some of the costs.



Shark patrols are for the most part useless in anything other than metropolitan beaches in summer. Last summer we spent million on helicopter shark patrols.
I watched them blasting up and down the beach, often at such low height and high speed so as to make spotting even the biggest shark a doubtful venture.
We still had people eaten by sharks, just not right under the helicopter.

Those solutions are very much supported by helicopter pilots wanting to get their hours up so they can go off and get a high paying job on an oil rig somewhere but it is not money well spent compared to what it would cost to give a fishing boat permission to take the offending shark or sharks out of the system.
Why do people want to waste time and money and human lives by not trying the most obvious solution first ?????

king of the point
WA, 1836 posts
16 Jul 2012 7:30PM
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http--www.abc.net.au-news-wa-

Some interviews

Luther
84 posts
16 Jul 2012 7:32PM
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pweedas said...

Actually. Colin Barnett said on Radio National soon after a previous attack that he was all for catching the shark and getting rid of it. He sounded very matter of fact and logical, as he often is.
Unfortunately though, not in this case. A day or two later he had completely changed his tune and was back to the old throwing tax money at the problem to study it more. Lots of "unanswered questions" and all that.
Very poor effort Col.
Largely as a consequence of that iinappropriate action we now have yet another water user turn into fish food.



largely as a consequence of being in a sharks natural habitat...got fark all do do with pollies

Woodo
WA, 792 posts
16 Jul 2012 7:35PM
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brad1 said...

What gives the human race the right to kill/cull/slaughter other species to promote its own population.
Fact:
1800's Human population 1 billion
now 7 billion
only 12 years ago it was 6 billion.
Population growth is out of control.

With more population, more people will be in the water so expect more attacks.
Pretty simple people.
As the population grows so too the number of people with the "gotta cull" attitude grows.
Food for thought



Yeah people. Pretty simple. 5 fatals in 10 months. Population growth is to blame! Fark can't believe we didn't think of this before!!
Brad1. You need a job? Maybe you could become the next premier of WA. You've got the whole shark attack thing really sussed and we sure could use someone over here who knows what the fark they're doing.

AUS02
TAS, 1992 posts
16 Jul 2012 9:42PM
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Terrible what's happened this past year, but what about acoustic tagging of sharks like CSIRO have been doing? Spend the $$'s on catch, tag and release. Set-up local listening stations and keep an eye on where the tagged sharks are. If there's one in the area, let people know. Won't necessarily solve the problem, but allows us to spend some of our energy actively seeking to track down sharks in the area so they can be tagged and monitored (not killed). Will also add greatly to our knowledge of their behaviour.

Chris6791
WA, 3271 posts
16 Jul 2012 7:54PM
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^^ +1, if you are going to go to the trouble of catching them, why not tag and release? bend the rules enough to turn it into a sport without killing them and the punters will pay big bucks for it. You won't tag them all, but it's better than culling them, and still not getting them all.

Dawn Patrol
WA, 1991 posts
16 Jul 2012 8:13PM
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AUS02 said...

Terrible what's happened this past year, but what about acoustic tagging of sharks like CSIRO have been doing? Spend the $$'s on catch, tag and release. Set-up local listening stations and keep an eye on where the tagged sharks are. If there's one in the area, let people know. Won't necessarily solve the problem, but allows us to spend some of our energy actively seeking to track down sharks in the area so they can be tagged and monitored (not killed). Will also add greatly to our knowledge of their behaviour.




THIS^

We've had a bad run of 1-2yrs. Some years we have none. This year has been bad. Who knows about next year.
It isn't a problem that has been around for 10 years. As far as I can see the 10yrs have been pretty much on the 1/yr average. The last year or two a few above average.

And what if we "cull to push them to the brink of extinction" and there is no change. That solution is a typical modern day solution. Hmm it's cheap an easy, lets do it with no guarantee it'll work. What if in 5yrs time they are nearly extinct and then a Tiger shark takes a few people. Do we go cull them to near extinction as well?

I think a proper understanding of them is essential. A cull would produce no guarantees, well that's wrong, it would guarantee even more strain on an already strained ecosystem.

Even if a cull is needed, more research would have to be done prior. To work out how many would need culling, where to do it and if it would have any effect on attacks. You can't just go willy nilly knocking them off with no goals or suggested guidelines. That would be unintelligent.

I wonder how many spinal/head/other serious injuries occur per year from people surfing/diving/kiting/windsurfing. But that'd be an acceptable risk right

fjordfiend
WA, 93 posts
16 Jul 2012 8:24PM
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The biggest fear for me is some young kid (mine) getting taken.
I think a sensible solution would be shark nets at a number of high usage areas that catch 90% of water users, if we netted off 200m of beach at cottesloe , City beach , scarborough and trigg you would provide a safe option to most of Perths surfers.
If like me you prefer to surf on your own or in higher quality waves outside of those areas you just have to accept the risk that you are taking.
Helicopter patrols are a PR exercise and must be highly uneffective.

BulldogPup
6657 posts
16 Jul 2012 8:34PM
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Read all of the posts on this thread , understand most if not all opinions & points of view .... but there isn't one single thing that will help young Ben's family get him back and that is what matters to them.
Also wanted to say Bravo to his mates & that Jet-Ski operator who is a Hero in my mind.
Continue on peoples

Dawn Patrol
WA, 1991 posts
16 Jul 2012 8:44PM
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fjordfiend said...

The biggest fear for me is some young kid (mine) getting taken.
I think a sensible solution would be shark nets at a number of high usage areas that catch 90% of water users, if we netted off 200m of beach at cottesloe , City beach , scarborough and trigg you would provide a safe option to most of Perths surfers.
If like me you prefer to surf on your own or in higher quality waves outside of those areas you just have to accept the risk that you are taking.
Helicopter patrols are a PR exercise and must be highly uneffective.



That sounds like a good thought. I know little about shark nets but I think they only cover a small portion of the water column.
A major downside is they kill pretty much everything that gets caught in them. It would be good if they could be designed as a barrier that sea life just couldnt get through, but weren't harmed.
I also think that I've read somewhere that just as many, if not more sharks are caught on their way back out to sea. ( Could be wrong here...)


BulldogPup said...

Read all of the posts on this thread , understand most if not all opinions & points of view .... but there isn't one single thing that will help young Ben's family get him back and that is what matters to them.
Also wanted to say Bravo to his mates & that Jet-Ski operator who is a Hero in my mind.
Continue on peoples


Very good point. I think in times like this everyone can get on edge. It could have easily been any one of us. Unfortunately nothing said here will change what happened on Saturday.

Ian K
WA, 4048 posts
16 Jul 2012 9:37PM
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gs12 said...) the shark has been around for days (if you can trust the internet news):

* Local surfers at the beach had noticed a large shark in the vicinity in the previous four days. They had jokingly nicknamed it Brutus.



Nothing new, young blokes have been flirting with dangerous wildlife forever. It's a natural thing to do, makes you feel alive, impresses the girls. We had a dead whale on the rocks at Sandon Point a while back. Would have been sensible to give it a break for a day or two, the waves weren't all that special. No a good dozen surfers were out there showing off their bravery.

Some would prefer a sanitised ocean, for most of us the risk-assessed potential of meeting dangerous wildlife in a sort of balanced ecosystem enhances the experience.

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
16 Jul 2012 9:39PM
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Dawn Patrol said...

AUS02 said...

Terrible what's happened this past year, but what about acoustic tagging of sharks like CSIRO have been doing? Spend the $$'s on catch, tag and release. Set-up local listening stations and keep an eye on where the tagged sharks are. If there's one in the area, let people know. Won't necessarily solve the problem, but allows us to spend some of our energy actively seeking to track down sharks in the area so they can be tagged and monitored (not killed). Will also add greatly to our knowledge of their behaviour.




THIS^

And what if we "cull to push them to the brink of extinction" and there is no change. That solution is a typical modern day solution. Hmm it's cheap an easy, lets do it with no guarantee it'll work. What if in 5yrs time they are nearly extinct and then a Tiger shark takes a few people. Do we go cull them to near extinction as well?



Why jump straight away to the extreme?
Who is recommending that we cull them to the point of extinction?
Let me put it in big writing so it's clear.
It's most probable that all the attacks are by just one or two sharks.
We only need to kill one or two sharks.


Try this first and if in the unlikely event we get to the point where we have taken out 5 or 6 sharks and it has had no effect then we can move onto some of the other more difficult and less likely to succeed ideas.
The result can hardly be any worse than what we have now.

Most authorities are now saying that the problem is due to a large buildup in shark numbers so killing one or two or even if it takes half a dozen, it will make NO difference to the prospects of survival of the species.

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
16 Jul 2012 9:46PM
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Dawn Patrol said...
I wonder how many spinal/head/other serious injuries occur per year from people surfing/diving/kiting/windsurfing. But that'd be an acceptable risk right


None of those things are acceptable and when they happen we generally do all that we can to minimise the risk, often at huge expense.
The problem in this instance is that many people seem to be saying we should accept the losses and just do nothing, or at least nothing effective.
I find that a really wierd attitude and totally in contravention of the most basic instinct of all living creatures, and that is the instinct to survive.

busterwa
3777 posts
16 Jul 2012 10:08PM
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May Gods blessing for you be great and innumerable and struggles few and far between. Take care and God Bless - Courage, it would seem, is nothing less than the power to overcome danger, misfortune, fear, injustice, while continuing to affirm inwardly that life with all its sorrows is good; that everything is meaningful even if in a sense beyond our understanding;

king of the point
WA, 1836 posts
16 Jul 2012 10:14PM
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Look out our (PM)has even got an opinion on how to deal with the problem

Dawn Patrol
WA, 1991 posts
16 Jul 2012 11:03PM
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pweedas said...

Dawn Patrol said...

AUS02 said...

Terrible what's happened this past year, but what about acoustic tagging of sharks like CSIRO have been doing? Spend the $$'s on catch, tag and release. Set-up local listening stations and keep an eye on where the tagged sharks are. If there's one in the area, let people know. Won't necessarily solve the problem, but allows us to spend some of our energy actively seeking to track down sharks in the area so they can be tagged and monitored (not killed). Will also add greatly to our knowledge of their behaviour.




THIS^

And what if we "cull to push them to the brink of extinction" and there is no change. That solution is a typical modern day solution. Hmm it's cheap an easy, lets do it with no guarantee it'll work. What if in 5yrs time they are nearly extinct and then a Tiger shark takes a few people. Do we go cull them to near extinction as well?



Why jump straight away to the extreme?
Who is recommending that we cull them to the point of extinction?
Let me put it in big writing so it's clear.
It's most probable that all the attacks are by just one or two sharks.
We only need to kill one or two sharks.


Try this first and if in the unlikely event we get to the point where we have taken out 5 or 6 sharks and it has had no effect then we can move onto some of the other more difficult and less likely to succeed ideas.
The result can hardly be any worse than what we have now.

Most authorities are now saying that the problem is due to a large buildup in shark numbers so killing one or two or even if it takes half a dozen, it will make NO difference to the prospects of survival of the species.


Paddlepig was suggesting cull them to near extinction. Thus my previous comment relating to intelligence. I will leave that though.

I agree with what you have just said. I am curious if it is just a single shark that has learnt to eat people. It would be impossible to prove, but would be nice to know!
If that is the case, I wouldn't have a problem getting rid of the offending individual(s). Finding the specific individual is a mission in itself. There were choppers up quickly and boats everywhere on saturday and not a trace.

When I hear 'cull' in certain contexts on hear, it seems to imply taking a large enough number of them to make a decent dent into the population. Which sounds like you agree is bad.

Spamboy
WA, 14 posts
16 Jul 2012 11:38PM
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culling sharks will teach us nothing. Yet if you kill a shark known to be responsible for an attack is killed we could learn loads. 1. we can learn the health of the shark and if they really are attacking due to lack of food. 2. If it is the one rouge shark out there it will be eliminated. 3. it will give some peace of mind to family and others 4. the shark may be able to be identified by tags or photo and see if there is connections to cage diving or other human interaction.
But the biggest problem with this is that you would need to wait for another attack and also for the government to pull there thumb out there bum and do something. the fact is that killing a few known to be dangerous sharks may end up saving the species..

japie
NSW, 6868 posts
17 Jul 2012 6:54AM
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The Gubmnt the Gubmint must do something, oh why doesn't the Gubmint do something?

If you are not careful they will. In fact they probably will anyway and you can bet your last dollar that it will result in loss of freedom. Freedom to surf where you want to and when you want to.

I have skimmed through this post from start to finish and it is just the same as the last one. Sure it is tragic but for the life of me I cannot understand why it is that people cannot grow up and accept reality.

And Great Whites on the Stockton Bight feed almost exclusively on the shoals of Kahawai salmon but there is one out there, Jimmy is his name, who has developed a hankering for something different.Watch out Stabber, you are beginning to look like a seal!

southace
SA, 4773 posts
17 Jul 2012 10:14AM
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In South Oz they do cage diving with GWSharks,

Sounds harmless enough but the sharks get feed,Feed lots!
Not a easy meal as the food is on a string and when they go to eat it the string is pulled and the shark misses the food,
After several attempts the shark eventually wins.

But these sharks are smart they return every year to the same spot and play the same game.

What they eat is boxes and boxes of large cut up tuna.

When one changes eating habits what happens? They get bigger and need more eating right?

Most of these sharks that visit have been tagged and most of the readings are along the WA coast and some to the East coast.

This year has been a bumper season for the company,seeing up to 8 sharks per day.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE EAT TOO MUCH FAST FOOD? WE GET FAT AND LOOK FOR THE NEXT FAST FOOD SHOP!

This has been going on for 20 years and increasing every year, in the old days they would take out just 1 or 2 tuna but now days its like 20 tuna cut into 60 big fat juicy steaks!

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
17 Jul 2012 8:45AM
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Spamboy said...

culling sharks will teach us nothing. Yet if you kill a shark known to be responsible for an attack is killed we could learn loads. 1. we can learn the health of the shark and if they really are attacking due to lack of food. 2. If it is the one rouge shark out there it will be eliminated. 3. it will give some peace of mind to family and others 4. the shark may be able to be identified by tags or photo and see if there is connections to cage diving or other human interaction.
But the biggest problem with this is that you would need to wait for another attack and also for the government to pull there thumb out there bum and do something. the fact is that killing a few known to be dangerous sharks may end up saving the species..


What is a rouge shark?

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
17 Jul 2012 11:04AM
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doggie said...

Spamboy said...
........2. If it is the one rouge shark out there ........................


What is a rouge shark?


A Great Red Shark I do believe

PS - I'm with Brad1 on this issue.

PaddlePig
WA, 421 posts
17 Jul 2012 9:16AM
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DawnPatrol is allowed his opinion, it's okay. I believe I'm intelligent and maybe at the time I over-reacted. I do that sometimes. It's hard not to react emotionally, rather than rationally given the topic.

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
17 Jul 2012 9:45AM
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sausage said...

doggie said...

Spamboy said...
........2. If it is the one rouge shark out there ........................


What is a rouge shark?


A Great Red Shark I do believe

PS - I'm with Brad1 on this issue.


Hahahahahaha

poor relative
WA, 9089 posts
17 Jul 2012 10:27AM
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If you walk in the african savannah you risk being eaten by a lion or chased by a rhino.
If you swim in the Indian Ocean you risk being eaten by a shark

Thems the risks.
If you don't feel comfortable with those risks/odds - stay on land.

jbshack
WA, 6913 posts
17 Jul 2012 11:21AM
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king of the point said...

Look out our (PM)has even got an opinion on how to deal with the problem


Yeah her opinion is to blame the local Liberal Government[}:)]



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Shark things out of hand in WA" started by king of the point