Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Very short take off and landing

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Created by Gorgo > 9 months ago, 27 Jan 2014
Gorgo
VIC, 4982 posts
27 Jan 2014 9:31AM
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worrier
WA, 726 posts
27 Jan 2014 8:18AM
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good find, I need one
W

Lambie
QLD, 739 posts
27 Jan 2014 11:18AM
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Hmm there's old pilots, and then there's bold pilots - but rarely do you meet an old bold pilot !! That guy is a nutter!!

Ian K
WA, 4049 posts
27 Jan 2014 10:02AM
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Lambie said..

Hmm there's old pilots, and then there's bold pilots - but rarely do you meet an old bold pilot !! That guy is a nutter!!


He seems to know what he's doing. They have a power off stall speed of 30.5 knots. With power on it'd be even less. I've spent a bit of time operating gear in the back seat of a Pilatus Porter. Had some moments (from my perspective), but always felt safer in a STOL than a helicopter. At least the pilot won't accidently back into anything.

http://justaircraft.com/media/Kitplanes-October2013%20JustAircraftSuperSTOL.pdf

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
27 Jan 2014 1:23PM
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It looks like a modern version of the German Storch plane.




fjdoug
ACT, 548 posts
27 Jan 2014 7:06PM
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same guys i think;

Ian K
WA, 4049 posts
27 Jan 2014 4:27PM
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I had to google "Dead Stick" It's an old term referring to a wooden propellor that isn't turning. Google turned up another video. Back country flying. It's a whole new sport! Cheaper than running a helicopter I suppose.
www.snotr.com/video/8900/Dead_stick_takeoff

fjdoug
ACT, 548 posts
27 Jan 2014 7:48PM
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yep, a dead stick landing is a landing after an engine failure.
dead stick take-offs are rare

gibberjoe
SA, 956 posts
27 Jan 2014 10:11PM
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there was an earlier post , same aircraft i think landing on a spur ridge.
in this vid a tail dragger or try cycle undercarriage aircraft cannot stand on two wheels alone as it slows down the
tail wheel must drop onto the ground. that's gravity
That being so there must have been considerable head wind to keep the tail wheel above the ground,
ie wind flowing over the tail plane and that would help with a short landing.
Very good pilot though, a very well thought out demo of an small aircraft, little weight also just 1 person
When he turns for takeoff down hill with a following breeze it takes a much longer time
to become airborne, although the steepness of the downhill helps attain a flyable speed

Ian K
WA, 4049 posts
27 Jan 2014 8:01PM
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It's tricky starting downhill. Our Porter pilot got into strife on a steep hill. Until you get airspeed over the tail the plane just wants to ground loop and point uphill. Maybe these pilots use differential braking on the wheels, the Porter we used was on skis. I reckon the pilots in the videos are pretty skillful.

Toph
WA, 1839 posts
27 Jan 2014 9:51PM
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Select to expand quote
gibberjoe said..

there was an earlier post , same aircraft i think landing on a spur ridge.
in this vid a tail dragger or try cycle undercarriage aircraft cannot stand on two wheels alone as it slows down the
tail wheel must drop onto the ground. that's gravity
That being so there must have been considerable head wind to keep the tail wheel above the ground,
ie wind flowing over the tail plane and that would help with a short landing.
Very good pilot though, a very well thought out demo of an small aircraft, little weight also just 1 person
When he turns for takeoff down hill with a following breeze it takes a much longer time
to become airborne, although the steepness of the downhill helps attain a flyable speed


You can stand a tail dragger on the mains only if you have enough air from the prop moving over the tailplane while preventing forward motion whether by applying brakes, or in this case a mountain. It is probably a great technique in mountain flying because it would give you better forward visability, and also they main tyres are 'beefed' up but the tailwheel would be like a stilletto in that terrain and would be prone to bogging down or at the least, getting stuck on rocks.

I think at one point the pilot commented it was a 50% slope. At that rate, the effect of even a 20-30knt headwind/tailwind would be bugger all. You'll really be considering a tailwind takeoff or landing with anything over 3-5% as the effect of inertia uphill would be greater then wind effect.

That kind of flying in very common in NZ, Alaska and Canada and those mountain tops certainly werent virgins to light aircraft.

Ian K Porters were designed to do crazy **** and are ideal on skis in the NZ mountains. I also think they are used heavily in the Antartic.

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
27 Jan 2014 10:41PM
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Select to expand quote
Toph said..
gibberjoe said..
there was an earlier post , same aircraft i think landing on a spur ridge.
in this vid a tail dragger or try cycle undercarriage aircraft cannot stand on two wheels alone as it slows down the
tail wheel must drop onto the ground. that's gravity
That being so there must have been considerable head wind to keep the tail wheel above the ground,
ie wind flowing over the tail plane and that would help with a short landing.
Very good pilot though, a very well thought out demo of an small aircraft, little weight also just 1 person
When he turns for takeoff down hill with a following breeze it takes a much longer time
to become airborne, although the steepness of the downhill helps attain a flyable speed


You can stand a tail dragger on the mains only if you have enough air from the prop moving over the tailplane while preventing forward motion whether by applying brakes, or in this case a mountain. It is probably a great technique in mountain flying because it would give you better forward visability, and also they main tyres are 'beefed' up but the tailwheel would be like a stilletto in that terrain and would be prone to bogging down or at the least, getting stuck on rocks.

I think at one point the pilot commented it was a 50% slope. At that rate, the effect of even a 20-30knt headwind/tailwind would be bugger all. You'll really be considering a tailwind takeoff or landing with anything over 3-5% as the effect of inertia uphill would be greater then wind effect.

That kind of flying in very common in NZ, Alaska and Canada and those mountain tops certainly werent virgins to light aircraft.Ian K Porters were designed to do crazy **** and are ideal on skis in the NZ mountains. I also think they are used heavily in the Antartic.


Long ago in a galaxy far away, I did all my early traing on a tiger moth.
You could chock the wheels with a couple of house bricks and at about three quarter throttle you could lift the tail with forward elevator and fly the plane level just with the prop wash over the tailplane, all at zero knots ground speed.
If you tilted the plane nose low, you could reduce the power to much less than half because the cof g moved further over the wheels.

In the vid above, he would have been riding the brakes when the airspeed dropped right down low and then held the plane balanced on the main wheels with throttle.
You can hear the motor running at various power levels as he uses it to balance on the main wheels, specially through the turns.
It's not an easy thing to do and you can nose right over pretty easy.
All ripping good fun until someone loses an eye. or a neck or a life.

Gorgo
VIC, 4982 posts
28 Jan 2014 11:06AM
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gibberjoe said..
...
in this vid a tail dragger or try cycle undercarriage aircraft cannot stand on two wheels alone as it slows down the
tail wheel must drop onto the ground. that's gravity
...


At the 1:00 mark he says he likes to keep "practiced up" at keeping the tail off the ground. It's fun .... and sometimes necessary.

www.snotr.com/video/8900/Dead_stick_takeoff

felixdcat
WA, 3519 posts
28 Jan 2014 11:19AM
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Gorgo said..

gibberjoe said..
...
in this vid a tail dragger or try cycle undercarriage aircraft cannot stand on two wheels alone as it slows down the
tail wheel must drop onto the ground. that's gravity
...


At the 1:00 mark he says he likes to keep "practiced up" at keeping the tail off the ground. It's fun .... and sometimes necessary.

www.snotr.com/video/8900/Dead_stick_takeoff


Prop wash will keep the tail up, the prop is running at high rpm as the pilot is keeping the plane standing on a slopy runway! When I was gliding we use to balance the gliders on the centre wheel just after landing on the little bit of wind running down the landing strip, could do it for a fair bit of time waiting for the recovery guys to take care of the wings!
That plane loks a lot like a reduction of a Pilatus Porter!

nicephotog
NSW, 251 posts
31 Jan 2014 4:24PM
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Nice, i once found those looking for specifications to build ultra lights.
They were effectively being marketed as rough terrain takeoff-landing aircraft(more than seeing short take off).

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
31 Jan 2014 3:38PM
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What the hell does this thread have to do with sharks!

Gorgo
VIC, 4982 posts
31 Jan 2014 5:53PM
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He can land on them and steer them away from crowded beaches.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Very short take off and landing" started by Gorgo