Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Who thinks we are heading for a recession?

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Created by adolf > 9 months ago, 16 Jun 2011
adolf
1862 posts
16 Jun 2011 5:50PM
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Today I learnt a new term "Death Cross" The all ordinaries index made a death cross today.

The death cross is mostly used with longer term moving averages. It's an especially strong signal when the 50 day moving average crosses below the 200 day moving average.




The last death cross was in 2008 during the GFC.

Pugwash
WA, 7671 posts
16 Jun 2011 6:21PM
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I do...

We all need less government in our lives, so we can have confidence to crank it up again...

Unfortunately, the Labs are hitting us from every direction with a new tax just about every month. And some taxes and other ideas they test through the media for popular appeal. This = uncertainty. Uncertainty = bad.

Comments on the Labs, bait for the log :p

SandS
VIC, 5904 posts
16 Jun 2011 8:21PM
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thats is interesting , so what are you doing Adolf, buying or selling?

adolf
1862 posts
16 Jun 2011 6:38PM
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SandS said...


thats is interesting , so what are you doing Adolf, buying or selling?


I've been selling off my shares for the past month. Still have some left but I think it's time to cut my losses. I don't think you have to be an expert to see that things don't look quite right.

Retail is dying - you don't see people in shops anymore. Property values are leveling off and look like dropping. The stimulus packages have now stopped and there is no money in the kitty to fall back on. News from the rest of the world is also looking bleak. Two months ago they were saying everything is fine with Greece - now they look certain to default. The US can hardly tell them to pull their finger out while they keep on printing money to support their own failing economy.

Swan tells us repeatedly how peachy everything is in Australia with the so called "mining boom" and demand from China etc. What I don't get is if it's such a mining boom why have all the resources stocks dropped 10% in two months?

I guess we will know in October if we are in a recession - my bet is we are heading for the mother of all recessions.

Cassa
WA, 1305 posts
16 Jun 2011 7:06PM
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Pugwash said...

I do...

We all need less government in our lives, so we can have confidence to crank it up again...

Unfortunately, the Labs are hitting us from every direction with a new tax just about every month. And some taxes and other ideas they test through the media for popular appeal. This = uncertainty. Uncertainty = bad.

Comments on the Labs, bait for the log :p


I agree , I think a positive outlook is something that is not being portrayed , if it was things might change.
Had 8 weeks off work this year ; first time in over 20 yrs!!!,
Dropped house price $50 grand!!! couldn't replace for selling cost ( just lucky I built it ) still hasn't sold, have a look at it and what and comment on the price , Please ; Open2view ID no 174583
Bugger this I want out

mineral1
WA, 4564 posts
16 Jun 2011 7:30PM
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Not a bloody chance are we heading for a recession, not a bloody chance!
Big global business houses are all on the make.
Yes there are the ones falling over, and main reason being that they were always a bad risk anyway. Yes some may fail, but mainly due to bad business decisions in the past.
But anybody who swallows the line of a recession looming, needs to have been through one and see the lead up/down business activity, the scraggy arse bounce across the bottom and the climb out after.
Just ride it out, it will get sweet

Cassa
WA, 1305 posts
16 Jun 2011 7:34PM
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I am , and I hope you are right

adolf
1862 posts
16 Jun 2011 7:48PM
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mineral1 said...

Not a bloody chance are we heading for a recession, not a bloody chance!
Big global business houses are all on the make.
Yes there are the ones falling over, and main reason being that they were always a bad risk anyway. Yes some may fail, but mainly due to bad business decisions in the past.
But anybody who swallows the line of a recession looming, needs to have been through one and see the lead up/down business activity, the scraggy arse bounce across the bottom and the climb out after.
Just ride it out, it will get sweet


I guess you woke up and drank from the half full glass this morning. If I was you I would be buying everything with open arms - bargains everywhere at the moment.

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
16 Jun 2011 8:01PM
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Have you noticed that the companies that are struggling are ones that are trying to compete with online sales?

The writing has been on the wall for ages. The internet is responsible for Angus&Robertson/Borders closing its doors.

Recently I checked out the prices of some books, it was cheaper for me to order my books from amazon in the USA than it was to wander down to my local bookstore. So I let my mouse-button do the talking. I guarantee many others are doing the same. The strong Aussie dollar is also a big factor here.


BHP shares are 40% higher than they were two years ago. This is a pretty good sign to me that things are on the improve

Greece is a worry though, heard some talk today that they might bring down the EU

FormulaNova
WA, 14669 posts
16 Jun 2011 8:03PM
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Pugwash said...

I do...

We all need less government in our lives, so we can have confidence to crank it up again...

Unfortunately, the Labs are hitting us from every direction with a new tax just about every month. And some taxes and other ideas they test through the media for popular appeal. This = uncertainty. Uncertainty = bad.

Comments on the Labs, bait for the log :p




Hey, it's bait for me too! Why does he get all the fun?

Yeah, right. Less government just means less stability. Fine if you are self sufficient, but sadly more government means more stability.

More government means more public service. More public service jobs means more stability for a lot of people, and that stability means that they can consume. The more they consume the more people that sell things can have a stable business.

You think the world economy cares about whether the Labor government adds a tax here or there?

A tax could make an economy slow down or a tax could make an economy speed up. It all depends on what the government does with the income it gets from the tax.

Care to guess which government tends to spend more on social spending, and which one saves it up and gleefully announces it has saved and gotten a surplus?

I think you got me there, but I hate it when a basic misunderstanding of economics gets a hold

Pugwash
WA, 7671 posts
16 Jun 2011 8:15PM
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YAY

ermmmm... bollocks

adolf
1862 posts
16 Jun 2011 8:16PM
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nebbian said...

Have you noticed that the companies that are struggling are ones that are trying to compete with online sales?

The writing has been on the wall for ages. The internet is responsible for Angus&Robertson/Borders closing its doors.

Recently I checked out the prices of some books, it was cheaper for me to order my books from amazon in the USA than it was to wander down to my local bookstore. So I let my mouse-button do the talking. I guarantee many others are doing the same. The strong Aussie dollar is also a big factor here.


BHP shares are 40% higher than they were two years ago. This is a pretty good sign to me that things are on the improve

Greece is a worry though, heard some talk today that they might bring down the EU


Colorado closed down two days ago: www.smh.com.au/business/retailer-colorado-to-close-jobs-to-go-20110614-1g21f.html - can't see how they blame the internet for that closure.

BHP shares on 16 June 2009 were $36.46 today they are $42.00 - that's 15% in two years. Since their high two months ago they've dropped 18%. You'd be better off having the money in the bank.

Greece is a worry, and after that then there is Ireland and Spain. Oh let's not forget the US - they said they are going to stop printing money end of June. I'm guessing that should be interesting.

Pugwash
WA, 7671 posts
16 Jun 2011 8:18PM
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^^^JUST jokin'

This one is not about the way the world sees us, it is about how we see ourselves. It is about local confidence. The industry I work in is cranking, but I, like many others, am saving.

The meddling, bungling, uncertainty is going to exacerbate the "two-speed" economy.

The Labs will take the doe, blow loads with crazy schemes, and pass back a pittance.

ockanui
VIC, 1300 posts
16 Jun 2011 10:26PM
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This mornings Age newspaper is a little full of retail gloom stories, unfortunately there are lots of new shopping centres and retailing companies have been expanding on the hope of some magical increase of population and continued spending, how many DFO's do we need or bookshops, one look at borders in chapel st, of supermarket size, at about $2000 per sq m rent, 3/4 of the space is walkways albeit expensive ones, or do we need 44 Gazman mens clothing shops in Melb? No. but the demise of them like so many other businesses of similiar model creates opportunities for others, leaner, smarter to take advantage and so a cycle begins again, also maybe consumers are awakening from a big spend to realize we don't need any more stuff, you just have to look at the hard rubbish that we throw out on the, its works the other way for me, I scored some great chairs, plastic boxes and ......

Gizmo
SA, 2865 posts
16 Jun 2011 10:05PM
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Here is another thought on the economy that a friend told me about years ago....

Beer vs. Stock Market Situation
(With the current market crisis, this puts a friendly spin on things..)

If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Delta Airlines one year ago, you would have $49.00 today. If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in AIG one year ago, you would have $33.00 today. If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Lehman Brothers one year ago, you would have $0.00 today. But, if you had purchased $1,000 worth of beer one year ago, drank all the beer, and then turned in the aluminum cans for recycling refund, you would have received $214.00.

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
16 Jun 2011 8:36PM
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BHP:


sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
16 Jun 2011 10:51PM
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Gizmo said...

Here is another thought on the economy that a friend told me about years ago....

Beer vs. Stock Market Situation
(With the current market crisis, this puts a friendly spin on things..)

If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Delta Airlines one year ago, you would have $49.00 today. If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in AIG one year ago, you would have $33.00 today. If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Lehman Brothers one year ago, you would have $0.00 today. But, if you had purchased $1,000 worth of beer one year ago, drank all the beer, and then turned in the aluminum cans for recycling refund, you would have received $214.00.




Sorry to burst your beer bubble Gizmo but.............lets say a carton of beer costs $40 therefore you get 600 cans for $1000. An aluminium can weighs about 15grams so that's 9kg of aluminium in total so at about $2500/tonne on today's market, this equals $22.50 of raw aluminium. I know it's a completely irrelevant fact but the trouble is people would believe this sh1t without even giving it a second thought.

looks like Delta Airlines would have been your best investment of the 4 choices.

PS - BHP were around $25 /share at Oct 08

adolf
1862 posts
16 Jun 2011 8:52PM
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Carantoc
WA, 6650 posts
16 Jun 2011 9:07PM
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^^^

Bet I could pick two points on a wiggly line and prove anything, even that bears don't **** in the woods.

Isn't a recession two consecutive quarters of negative growth (never really understood negative growth, shouldn't it be shrinkage ?)

We had one, blamed on rain in Queensland.

I would therefore say there is 100% chance of the probability of a recession occuring being greater than average.

SandS
VIC, 5904 posts
16 Jun 2011 11:20PM
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adolf said...






nice graph, lovely colours,

the trend is up

adolf
1862 posts
16 Jun 2011 9:25PM
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sausage said...

PS - BHP were around $25 /share at Oct 08


PS - BHP were around $46 /share at Oct 07

- Only worth $42 today.

kk
WA, 947 posts
16 Jun 2011 9:58PM
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I have no doubt we are heading towards a reccesion, we were due to have one some years ago but with gov spending (stimulis) etc. It has been delayed. In 25 years my order book has never been so empty (I'm a small to medium commercial builder)

There is a lot of TALK about the boom, but I think it's all Swan and Gilliard spin to be honest.

I will be OK as I'm not over extended with debt etc, but I fear for the peolple that live week to week to pay off the mortgage..

I hope I'm wrong

Poida
WA, 1916 posts
16 Jun 2011 10:11PM
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giddy up Sundance

i got a few bob on sdl, rio, bhp, nab and amp
tossing up whether to sell, but prefer these for the long term,

FlySurfer
NSW, 4453 posts
17 Jun 2011 1:03AM
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The only thing we have to worry about is China.
If it turns out China's miracle is just another ponzi scheme for party dictated growth... then we're in so much trouble it aint funny.

If the music keeps playing there... just remember it's our resources building China, and the trinkets we value so much.
Japan got hit hard by that Earth mover of a quake, and they'll be ramping up production at the end of summer.

Most Australians are max'ed out or waiting it out... so growth is doubtful. But agriculture, energy and mining will keep us above water.

I've been hedging my bets for a while so I never really make much or lose much... it's been about wealth preservation.

petermac33
WA, 6415 posts
17 Jun 2011 2:42AM
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on Glen Beck programme few weeks back he had Jim Rogers on for an hour talking about the coming great depression.

both agreed,Glen said another 5 months to start really biting.

time to stock up on food,tins can last years,so can dried food.

some aboriginals can survive off the land,not many others.

we take food in supermarkets as guaranteed to always be there,supermarkets could be cleaned out in hours if what predicted arrives.

heard other week of house that was bought in Applecross for $8m at peak was recently valued at $4.6m.

a few more years,certainly within the next 5/10 year period, they might get half a
million if lucky.

can easily see silver hitting $150 an ounce.

www.henrymakow.com/why_are_lessons_of_1998_mini-c.html

FormulaNova
WA, 14669 posts
17 Jun 2011 6:15AM
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Pugwash said...

^^^JUST jokin'

This one is not about the way the world sees us, it is about how we see ourselves. It is about local confidence. The industry I work in is cranking, but I, like many others, am saving.

The meddling, bungling, uncertainty is going to exacerbate the "two-speed" economy.

The Labs will take the doe, blow loads with crazy schemes, and pass back a pittance.


What does that mean? It does sound like something you could hear on talk-back radio. Lots of emotion, but no actual substance.

Pass back a pittance? I am not sure where money could go apart from back into the economy or saved as a surplus. 'Someone' gets the money, it doesn't just vanish.

I am sure the media has pushed this idea of 'bungling' yet there doesn't seem to be any stack of evidence to back it up.

Sure, local confidence makes a difference, but thinking we are isolated from the rest of the world's economy is naive.

Red thumbs? What do they mean? Is that approval? Thanks!

BabaORiley
WA, 434 posts
17 Jun 2011 6:32AM
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So whos goin out to by silver shares today?

rescueme
WA, 79 posts
17 Jun 2011 6:32AM
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Since about 2005 and the next 50 years its going to so something like this:
1. demand for oil increases
2. supply is restricted as we are using more oil than we are finding the world's supergiant fields are all in decline
3. price of oil goes up (>$100/bbl, which would have been unthinkable as few as 13 years ago when it was ~$10/bbl)
4. economy slows down
5. price of oil eases (new higher "basement" price though)
6. go back to 1

We need to get off this treadmill, but the the longer it goes the harder it will be as through each cycle the overall cost of oil will go up, which increases all energy costs across the board, including investment in non-fossil fuel energy sources, which also have a much lower EROEI (energy returned on energy invested). Which is to be expected in a capitalist society - the most profitable (highest EROEI) energy sources were developed first - which also generally means they'll be (fully) consumed first.

adolf
1862 posts
17 Jun 2011 6:48AM
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Mark Faber has awesome accent, has been pretty accurate with his forecasts and has good quotes



The federal government is sending each of us a $600 rebate. If we spend that money at Wal-Mart, the money goes to China. If we spend it on gasoline it goes to the Arabs. If we buy a computer it will go to India. If we purchase fruit and vegetables it will go to Mexico, Honduras and Guatemala. If we purchase a good car it will go to Germany. If we purchase useless crap it will go to Taiwan and none of it will help the American economy. The only way to keep that money here at home is to spend it on prostitutes and beer, since these are the only products still produced in US. I've been doing my part.

bjw
QLD, 3620 posts
17 Jun 2011 9:39AM
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adolf said...






When they predict green arrows, you invest the time and the actual is red arrows.

j murray
SA, 947 posts
17 Jun 2011 10:18AM
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We are in the ditch [septic] and being run/held under by immature people on

both sides.. and yes ....we voted for this ...play the last post now.......



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Who thinks we are heading for a recession?" started by adolf