Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

conspiracy theories....per say ????

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Created by j murray > 9 months ago, 14 Jul 2010
j murray
SA, 947 posts
14 Jul 2010 2:56PM
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" What in life, is worth discussing except a great CT " ????[}:)]

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
14 Jul 2010 1:42PM
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Thanks, now we have a CT thread, yay!!

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
14 Jul 2010 4:09PM
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Maybe the degeneration of grammar and spelling in our society......per se

DipsyGriftir
40 posts
14 Jul 2010 2:20PM
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doggie said...

Thanks, now we have a CT thread, yay!!


Yeah, to go with all the others

getfunky
WA, 4485 posts
14 Jul 2010 2:23PM
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I am hoping to find out who my father is here.

Can anyone help?

Cheers,

Luke

getfunky
WA, 4485 posts
14 Jul 2010 2:25PM
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sshhkkt..sshhhkkt..Search your feelings for the truth Luke.. sshhkkt..sshhhkkt..


sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
14 Jul 2010 4:26PM
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getfunky said...

I am hoping to find oiut who my father is here.

Can anyone help?

Cheers,

Luke


That's an easy one Luke. Anakin Skywalker is your father (even my 6 y.o. boys know that)

[EDIT - sh1t beat me to it]

getfunky
WA, 4485 posts
14 Jul 2010 2:29PM
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Silly sausage.

Must be the tin foil slowing you down.

deXtrous
NSW, 451 posts
14 Jul 2010 4:57PM
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If you want to delve into some true conspiracy check this out..

Leo Zagami: Illuminati Whistleblower

Leo Lyon Zagami, ex-member of the Comitato Esecutivo Massonico - the Masonic Executive Committee - of Monte Carlo, was, until recently, a high level member of the Italian Illuminati. He is a 33rd degree Freemason, and a senior member of the infamous P2 Lodge. He was the 'Prince': prepared to take over after the older Illuminati 'King', Licio Gelli. He was born of a Scottish-Sicilian Illuminati aristocratic bloodline, and so has been involved in the Illuminati Order since childhood.




(part one of three).


getfunky
WA, 4485 posts
14 Jul 2010 3:19PM
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deXtrous said...

If you want to delve into some true conspiracy check this out..

Leo Zagami: Illuminati Whistleblower

Leo Lyon Zagami, ex-member of the Comitato Esecutivo Massonico - the Masonic Executive Committee - of Monte Carlo, was, until recently, a high level member of the Italian Illuminati. He is a 33rd degree Freemason, and a senior member of the infamous P2 Lodge. He was the 'Prince': prepared to take over after the older Illuminati 'King', Licio Gelli. He was born of a Scottish-Sicilian Illuminati aristocratic bloodline, and so has been involved in the Illuminati Order since childhood.







Dexxy - Is he getting by working in pornos now?

I went to school in Melbourne with a wealthy kid whos' surname was Zagami. He and his brother were two of the dumbest doods I have ever met. Like forget to breath stoopid. Heaps of money in the fam (maybe Zagami's nightclub still exists? Amadaus??)but no sense at all..
Maybe they are 'connected'. Actually they were smart, funny, and handsome.. really.. truly..
Probably getting heaps of work in the prawn industry.

theDoctor
NSW, 5780 posts
15 Jul 2010 9:54AM
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evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
15 Jul 2010 5:55PM
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From:
http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2008/04/28/25-reasons-people-believe-weird-things/

25 Reasons People Believe Weird Things
April 28th, 2008 | Published in Life, Pseudoscience, Religion, Science

We can believe weird things, from ghosts to alien abductions to ESP to young-earth creationism. Have you ever wondered how smart people can believe such things? These answers are adapted from Michael Shermer's excellent Why People Believe Weird Things:

Problems in Scientific Thinking
1. Theory Influences Observations - When you have a theory of something, you interpret the results inside your theory. So when Columbus arrived in the New World, he saw Asian spices and roots. His theory said he should be in Asia.

2. The Observer Changes the Observed - The act of studying an event can change it. This can happen with anthropologists studying tribes to physicists studying electrons. This is why psychologists use blind and double-blind controls. Science tries to minimize this, pseudoscience does not.

3. Equipment Constructs Results - The equipment used often determines the results. The size of the telescope shaped and reshaped the size of the universe. The kind of fish net determines what fish it can catch.

4. Anecdotes != Science - Stories that people pass on is not the same as controlled experiments. Pseudoscience points to anecdotes; science points to reputable studies.

Problems in Pseudoscientific Thinking
5. Scientific Language Doesn't Make It Scientific - Dressing up a belief in scientific language doesn't make it science. This is easily seen with "creation science" and New Age pseudoscientific mumbo-jumbo.

6. Bold Statements Do Not Make Claims True - L. Ron Hubbard called Dianetics "a milestone for man comparable to his discovery of fire and superior to his invention of the wheel and the arch." But it wasn't. The more extraordinary the claim, the more extraordinary well-tested the evidence must be.

7. Heresy Does Not Equal Correctness - Copernicus and Galileo and the Wright Brothers were rebels. But just because someone is a rebel doesn't make them right. Holocaust deniers are rebels, but they need historical evidence for their position. It's heresy to say Bush planned the 9/11 attack, but that isn't evidence of the government suppressing the truth.

8. Burden of Proof - The person making the extraordinary claim has the burden of proving their claim is true and better than the commonly accepted position. If a man claims he moved a mountain with his mind, the burden of proof is on him.

9. Rumors Do Not Equal Reality - Rumors begin with "I read somewhere that." or "I heard from someone that.." Before long, the rumor becomes reality, as "I know that." passes from person to person. These stories are often false. For instance, everyone knows George Washington chopped down a cherry tree and couldn't lie about it. He also had wooden teeth. Both stories are false.

10. Unexplained Is Not Inexplicable - Just because you can't explain something doesn't mean it can't be explained. Firewalking seems inexplicable, but once you know the explanation it seems obvious. The same goes for all magic tricks. And even if an expert can't explain it doesn't mean it can't be explained someday. Think of how many things - from germs to atoms to evolution - couldn't be explained two hundred years ago!

11. Failures Are Rationalized - Scientists acknowledge failures and reformulate theories. Pseudoscientists ignore or rationalize failures.

12. After-the-Fact Reasoning - Also known as, "post hoc, ergo propter hoc," literally, "after this, therefore because of this." It's superstition. Because I carried a rabbit's foot, I sold more products today. Because I have blonde hair, I'm ditzy. Because I used a dowsing stick, I struck water. All superstition. Correlation does not mean causation.

13. Coincidence - Most people have a very poor understanding of the law of probability. Say you are about to make a call and as your hand touches the phone they call you. How could that be a coincidence? It must be ESP. We forget about the other thousand times we call someone and they don't call us first. You make 5 baskets in a row, and you're "on fire." But statistically your chances are the same as a coin-flip. The human mind looks for patterns and often finds them when there are none.

Logical Problems in Thinking
14. Representativeness - Something may seem unusual when it's not. Baselines must be established. For instance, tapping and scratching sounds in your house may be ghosts, but it's probably just pipes and rats. Many ships are lost at the Bermuda Triangle, but only because there are more shipping lanes there than in surrounding areas. When that is factored in, the accident rate is actually lower in the Bermuda Triangle.

15. Emotive Words and False Analogies - Loaded language can be used to provoke emotion and obscure rationality. Industry can be called "raping the environment" or abortion "murdering innocent children" or a political opponent a "communist." Rarely does this further rational thought, but clouds the issue with emotion and rhetoric.

16. Appeal to Ignorance - This claims if you can't disprove something, it must be true. So if you can't disprove psychic power or ESP or ghosts, they must be real. The problem is you can't disprove Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, either. Belief should come from positive evidence in support of a claim, not a lack of evidence.

17. Attacking the man -Redirect the focus from thinking about the idea to thinking about the person holding the idea. Calling Darwin a racist or a politician a communist or past figure a slaveholder does not discredit their ideas.

18. Hasty Generalization - Also known as prejudice, or drawing conclusions before the facts warrant. A couple of bad teachers and it's a bad school. A couple of bad cars and that brand of automobile is unreliable.

19. Overreliance on Authorities - We must be careful not to accept a wrong idea from someone we respect, nor write off a good idea because of a supporter we disrespect. Examining the evidence ourselves helps us avoid these errors.

20. Either-Or - This is the argument that when one position is wrong, another must be accepted. For instance, creationists spend much of their time attacking evolution because they think if evolution is wrong, then creationism must be right. But for a theory to be accepted, it must be superior to the old theory. A new theory needs evidence in favor of it, not just against the opposition.

21. Circular Reasoning - Also known as begging the question, this is when the conclusion or claim is merely a restatement of one of the premises. For instance in religion: Is there a God? Yes. How do you know? Because my holy book says so. How do you know your holy book is correct? Because it was inspired by God. Or in science: What is gravity? The tendency for objects to be attracted to one another. Why are objects attracted to one another? Gravity. While these definitions can at times be useful, we need to try and construct operational definitions that can be tested, falsified, and refuted.

22. Reductio ad Absurdum and the Slippery Slope - Reductio ad absurdum is the refutation of an argument by carrying the argument to its logical end and so reducing it to absurd conclusion. For instance: Eating ice cream will cause you to gain weight. Gaining weight makes you overweight. Overweight people die of heart disease. Thus eating ice cream leads to death. A creationist might argue: Evolution doesn't need God. If you don't need God, you reject him. Without God, there is no morality. Therefore, people who believe in evolution reject God and have no morals.

Psychological Problems in Thinking
23. Effort Inadequacies and the Need for Certainty, Control, and Simplicity - Most of us want certainty, want to control our environment, and want nice, neat simple explanations. But it doesn't always work like that. Solutions are sometimes simple, but other times they are complex. We must be willing to make an effort to understand complex theories instead of rejecting them out of laziness.

24. Problem-Solving Inadequacies - When solving problems, we often form a hypothesis and then look only for examples to confirm it. When our hypothesis is wrong, we are slow to change our hypothesis. We also gravitate towards simple solutions even when they don't explain everything.

25. Ideological Immunity - We all resist changing fundamental beliefs. We build up "immunity" against new ideas that do not fit within our paradigm. The higher the intelligence, the greater the potential for ideological immunity. This can be the greatest barrier to changing our weird beliefs.

getfunky
WA, 4485 posts
15 Jul 2010 4:21PM
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theDoctor said...













Sure that 1st para wasn't describing the 'naughties' 1st decade of this millenium - particularly the housing madness?


TBH I have found this whole thread a bit disapointing.

Don't get me wrong I love per say. Per say for breakfast.. per say for lunch.. you get the idea.

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
15 Jul 2010 8:03PM
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Bloody ...Huxley and all of his doors.

While we are going way off topic:

'What is a religious man?' (Huxley asking K.) Krishnamurti changed his tone and rhythm. He spoke now calmly, with incisiveness.

'I will tell you what a religious man is. First of all. a religious man is a man who is alone - not lonely, you understand, but alone - with no theories or dogmas, no opinion, no background. He is alone and loves it - free of conditioning and alone - and enjoying it. Second, a religious man must be both man and woman - I don't mean sexually - but he must know the dual nature of everything; a religious man must feel and be both masculine and feminine.

Third,' and now his manner intensified again, 'to be a religious man, one must destroy everything - destroy the past, destroy one's convictions, interpretations, deceptions - destroy ALL self-hypnosis - destroy until there is no center; you understand, NO CENTER.' He stopped. No center?

After a silence Krishnamurti said quietly, 'Then you are a religious person. Then stillness comes. Completely still.' Still were the immense mountains around us. Infinitely still."


Morrison is the flame, Huxley is the fuse, K is the bomb.

Carantoc
WA, 6666 posts
15 Jul 2010 9:51PM
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theDoctor said...









Trying to make a point there Doc or just posting random clips from obscure publications ?

In 1799 Sir Alex Fraser Tylers' understanding of civilisations and nations appears to be one and the same.

If you were to list the 'great civilisations' and all the 'nations' there isn't too much similarity in the lists, in fact the notion of nation as we understand it now really only developed after Sir Tyler's death.

But, if I look hard to try to see a point you may be making from these two obscure and unrelated texts, I would suggest that the current world's nations were created artifically in the period 1945 to 1949, the biggest mass global nation defining period ever.

This puts the average age of today's 'nations' at little over 60 years, so we have another 140 to go before you need to worry about your freedoms being taken from you.

And given there are no current 'great civilisations' in Sir Tylers concepts nothing to worry about there either.

Not sure what feedoms you think people of the past had that you don't have now though. If you want to quote obscure historical texts you may find something written by Herodotus bemoaning the decline of the Roman republic into an authoritarian state and the subsequent loss of the freedoms that the people used to have.

Perhaps another stage in the sequence should be 'from apathy to moaning that the past was better than the current and you got it worse than your forefathers could ever have imagined'

maxm
NSW, 864 posts
16 Jul 2010 10:50AM
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^^^^^
Yeah, weird stuff happens sometimes. But that's just another way of saying that something happened that we don't fully understand. The cure for that is to study it and improve our understanding. It's not a reason to believe weird things.

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
16 Jul 2010 11:28AM
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^^^ Not to say that "weird stuff" doesn't still happen, just look at particle physics.

It is only weird because we don't understand it yet, but in the meantime it remains weird.

also: I'm going to endeavour to stop quoting other people. Means nothing unless it came from myself, except where technical of course : )

japie
NSW, 6931 posts
16 Jul 2010 2:46PM
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deXtrous said...

If you want to delve into some true conspiracy check this out..

Leo Zagami: Illuminati Whistleblower

Leo Lyon Zagami, ex-member of the Comitato Esecutivo Massonico - the Masonic Executive Committee - of Monte Carlo, was, until recently, a high level member of the Italian Illuminati. He is a 33rd degree Freemason, and a senior member of the infamous P2 Lodge. He was the 'Prince': prepared to take over after the older Illuminati 'King', Licio Gelli. He was born of a Scottish-Sicilian Illuminati aristocratic bloodline, and so has been involved in the Illuminati Order since childhood.




(part one of three).





Well I have had a bit of a delve! I am a master mason who has not attended a lodge meeting since 1996 and I am glad I did not pursue it any further having watched that! Talk about confusion, my own,although there is obviously a very strong thread running through the whole bangshoot, that is cash, control and a fair smattering of evil!

Carantoc
WA, 6666 posts
16 Jul 2010 9:17PM
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theDoctor said...











Context as well Doc.

Sir Alex Tyler, Scottish bloke

year 1799 - as the might of the British empire really began to get into full swing and the Scots continued to call for independance.

I am guessing Sir Alex was not only describing the decline and fall of the Athenian empire, but also writing high brow propoganda against English control of the world, and reassuring his fellow Scots not to worry as their day would come around again ??

Perhaps the whistle blower had his own whistle to blow ??

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
26 Jul 2010 10:36AM
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All the bull**** that lead up to the invasion of Iraq. When you think about it it was clearly and undeniably a classic conspiracy theory.

"But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know. .... We know where they [Iraq's WMD] are. They're in the area around ... But it's way too soon to know." - Rumsfeld

Carantoc
WA, 6666 posts
26 Jul 2010 10:52AM
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Indeed.

But nothing new. It is not the beginning of the end, a sign the NWO are taking over or the final nail in the coffin of righteousness.

Peoples have been invading peoples for thousands of years based on dogey excuses that have both been proved later to be incorrect and have been knowingly untrue at the time.

Invasions have been made for a lot poorer reasons than the ones the US gave for Iraq.

Now, I am not saying the US led invasion was right, fair, just or desirable. In my mind it was illegal in accordance with international laws and morally wrong.

I am just saying it is nothing new, and is nothing different than what has happened in the past. Not saying that makes it right, just saying that does not make it surprising.

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
26 Jul 2010 3:29PM
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Yes, but I never thought about it as a conspiracy theory per se. One that entire nations got frightened by and followed.

I knew it was bull****, although in the beginning I fell for it myself, but the case for war was the equivalent of researching for "truth" on the Internet. They found a hint of the evidence they were looking for, ignored any rational objection, made a huge noise about it, and it was entirely driven by fear of the unknown, boogey men and all.

A perfect illustration of a conspiracy theory.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"conspiracy theories....per say ????" started by j murray