It makes sense that the sea levels are rising, because the rain running off the land into the ocean is putting more salt and soil into the sea eroding the land and increasing the amount of salt and soil in the sea and seabed. I agree this climate change might be happening but I believe tiny increments in CO2 thought to be solely influenced by humans is the cause of climate change is a big call. There is a big ball of Gas called the sun that is the main reason for heating the earth, we learnt that in grade 3.
^^^^^^ It's not as simple as this. Sea level rise comes from the melting of polar ice and glaciers which results from increasing global temperatures. The vast majority of the worlds climate scientists agree on a tipping point rise of only 2 degrees which can set off a chain of events that will change the way we live for a very long time. In Australia we can expect increased droughts, expansion of deserts, agricultural land turning to desert, inundation of coastal cities and refugees from all over the world including the pacific island nations.
All the evidence points to human activity being responsible for increasing temperatures. Of course it's going to cost us and simply assuming that governments will use this as a grab for cash is simplistic. To do nothing will be far more costly for future generations.
Take the time to read the evidence.
www.ccrc.unsw.edu.au/sites/default/files/Copenhagen_Diagnosis_HIGH.pdf
or at least read this
The level of debate on this thread is by and large appalling. The rigor of argument and quality of evidence are both simply juvenile. I guess it is a kite forum.
KIT33R I applaud your efforts to bring some credible evidence into the discussion. I also support the effort to distinguish discussion of causes and effects of climate change from possible political responses to climate change. We can expect a degree of nepotism and corruption in any government initiatives. That does not mean that those initiatives are entirely motivated by nepotism and corruption, or that the initiatives will be entirely ineffective. Sometimes you have to work with imperfect tools.
No posters seem to have taken seriously my mention of peak oil and peak coal in relation to climate change. There is not enough economically viable fossil fuel left to continue our consuming ways and power an infrastructure transition to sustainables; we have to choose how we balance these competing resource uses. One way or another we'll find ourselves in a post-carbon world. The quality of life in that world will depend largely on our collective self-discipline to make short-term sacrifices for long-term outcomes.
One of the reasons I took up kitesurfing is because I could do it with so much less of a carbon footprint than windsurfing or other water sports, simply because the gear is so small and I can take the train or tram to the beach. Still, it won't surprise me at all if I cannot kitesurf in several years, either because of energy shortages or because my own conscience forces me to increased action on environmental/social change.
I'm not going to put any more time and energy into reading or posting on this thread. The level of willful self-delusion and lifestyle selfishness (masquerading as anger at corrupt government and scientists, as though the scientists have anywhere near the vested interests of coal and oil companies) saddens me deeply.
It is not easy nor fun to stare down the barrel of an apocalypse and realise that we are at the end of a remarkable era and that we and our kids will have to change our ways. It's not easy to accept that many of our own childhood assumptions, as foisted upon us by a society that knew no better - "big cars for all" "unlimited growth" "convenience is your entitlement" - were but the brief flicker of a peaking fossil-fuel driven bonanza.
The future, I hope, shall retain much of the cultural and technological development that was fuelled by coal and oil. However, the laws of chemistry and physics will expectably constrain us as much as ever. Energy has to come from somewhere. It takes energy to harvest energy. If we eat all the food in the fridge so we can keep playing, we won't have enough energy to make the walk to the next big supermarket, which will expectedly be a further walk than we're used to.
And if there's no next supermarket around the corner, we'll just have to use what's already here: sunlight, wind, tide, waves (reminds me of a sport, maybe it could be fun). That's the cool bit, whilst the cheap energy party is rapidly coming to an end, the free energy era is available if we redirect resources now.
Whether or not there are some corrupt politicians and scientists in the world in no way absolves the rest of us of responsibility. What will you tell your kids you did with the last piece of the pie. Did you piss it up the wall or did you divert it to support a transition to sustainables?
Increase in H20 + warmer temperatures = more evaporation.
As you should all know change of state (liquid to gas) requires energy, when water evaporates it takes energy (heat) from the surrounding water.
When it condensates gas to liquid it again use energy. This is your basic heat exchange, and also how air conditioners work.
This is part of a process that drives our weather.
Desertification is CAUSED by lack of water to evaporate/condensate... this is caused by deforestation, DAMS, AGRICULTURE and ANY OTHER removal of water.
The more water + heat, the more wild weather and water vapour in the atmosphere.
F**k what I say, go get a bucket of water, put a transparent top on it, place some coasters on the water to represent land mass, place some ice cubes in it. What happens when there's still ice?
What happens when there's no ice?
If u want rain in the desert, you want MO'HEAT! The water won't stay there without MULCH.
If you want plants to grow, you WANT MO'CO2... plants take the C (carbon) to grow, and release the O (so u can breathe).
There are people out there that will insult your intelligence so they can hide their own stupidity, so don't believe anyone and figure it out for yourself.
There are people out there that feel the world is too complicated and yearn for a simpler life where we all grow our own vegetables and ride bicycles... I want us to have in modern ecological cities with fusion energy... http://www.thevenusproject.com/technology/city-systems
There are people out there that spend considerable time and resources trying to exploit their fellow people.
So question everything and don't trust the experts or your "elected" leaders.
You need to safe guard this planet for your descendants BUT you must also safe guard their FREEDOM and Prosperity.
I have a friend in Zimbabwe, and contrary to what you may have heard on the news... they're free, but their economy is f**ked and they can't afford to do anything... they grow their own vegetables ALL over the place (cities/towns) and ride bicycles.
This CO2 movement has been hijacked by greedy financial entities. HELL even the greens don't support the ETS because it does NOTHING for the environment.
U can do another experiment... get 2 sealed containers, the bigger the better. Pump pure CO2 gas (fire extinguisher, soda pop) in to 1, do nothing to the other... place thermometers at the bottom, leave them in the Sun.
I don't even care how much CO2 in put in, it will be many 1000's of times more than the atmosphere... even with 1000's more concentration of CO2 there should be no measureable green house effect.
I classify and person who considers CO2 a pollutant, as retarded... I'll let u come to your own conclusions.
ASK YOURSELF THIS SIMPLE QUESTION:
HOW the f*** does solar radiation pass through CO2 on its way in then get stuck on earth on its way out, like some trap door? It doesn't!
The greenhouse effect is caused by water vapour and other gases with latent heat... u know what I wrote about before... CO2 is always a transparent gas on earth, it condenses at around -130c or something really cold. WTF google it.
***CO2 does have a greenhouse effect but it's VERY small***
Go to the f'ing desert, camp out... f'ing cold at night, right? Do the same by the beach.
A lot of people think the mases are too stupid, and distracted by Britney Spears, AFL and Pop Idol... to figure this **** out, don't prove'm right.
PS: Excuse the profanity/grammar, the purpose is communication not literary eloquence.
Thanks Flysurfer finally someone with a brain. I don't know how people are so easily tricked sometimes, they are so quick to question every youtube video on whether its "fake" or not but they wouldn't even think that the government and media could be lying to them... So many people I know think just because it's in the media (on TV in the Papers etc.) it all must be true.
It's like the human race is getting stupider the more we advance.
that's actually true in a way.... if you look at the education levels and schools, they are actually dropping... It's very possible that governments purposefully want people to become dumber, hence lowering the educational standards, as smarter people are harder to control...
kitefriend: A Russian friend once told me, in the East they told us what to do. In the West they tell us what to think.
^^^^ you said in your previous post that...."i won't be posting on this thread again"....what happened?
Vanity get the better of ya? just had the acknowledge the wind that was blown up your a.....sss..
Don't really blame ya fly, I would too!
But really that line you said where.... you'd have to give up kiting if your conscious changed....C'mon mate let go of yourself..... I hope your religious beliefs don't ever become as right wing as your environmental convictions, or else we'll have no towers left in the financial district.
bwhaaaa haaahaaa!
HA!
If anyone is interested in the true cause of desertification and real solutions I recommend this:
www.abc.net.au/austory/episodes/
www.abc.net.au/austory/specials/rightasraintwo/default.htm
I really wish there where more rational people like Peter Andrews.
www.naturalsequencefarming.com/peter.htm
Unfortunately the CO2 reduction effort in Australia has been hijacked by the big carbon emitting special interest groups. These groups are akin to the pro-smoking lobbies who have spent millions denying the adverse health effects of smoking.
They expect mass payments to compensate their industries. If they had taken the money they spent paying lobbyists and swaying policy makers and put it into reducing emissions they could have made a difference already.
Yet, the reality is the need to be more sensible about our energy emissions and reduce out dependence on fossil fuels has been a long standing issue - its not exactly a surprise to anyone! Not only is the burning of fossil fuels demonstrably harmful to the environment, we are dealing with a finite resource that will run out in due course anyway.
Australia could easily convert it's coal fired powered stations to gas and make an immediate, significant reduction to the national CO2 emissions. We could legislate that all cars have a maximum emissions value per kilometre and ensure all new cars run on natural gas.
Instead, we are selling our natural gas to Japan, China, India for a pittance.
The politicians could insist on using fuel efficient cars within the government fleet - maybe they wouldn't be as nice looking - but you have to walk the talk.
I'm all for sustainable management of the environment but excessive legislation and regulation doesn't work as it is too slow to adapt to changing ideas.
Of course, when Nuclear Fusion is perfected, all of these discussions become moot.
Australia kiting alert over massive iceberg: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091211/wl_afp/australiaantarcticaiceberg
As we all know Global Warming supports more icebergs... so the more CO2 we emit the more icebergs Australia gets.
Soon it's going to get so hot we won't be able to kite due to iceberg hazards.
lostinlondon: u miss the point, CO2 is just used as a new tax for the new world government built around the G20... if it wasn't CO2, it may have been H2O... or even O, as all combustion requires O.
I'm starting to feel like a broken record but... you guys haven't called security to have me removed yet:
In terms of evidence from my perspective - I skiied at the highest resort in the world 13 years ago - Chacaltaya in Bolivia. It was on a glacier. That glacier now does not exist.
My family has also been involved with skiing on Aus since the early 50s, and the warming there is also very real. No one skis at Sponars any more on the Grand Slam, nor do they ice skate on the pond out the front.
In super warm or super cold areas, the temp changes are not that noticeable (different to measurable). But on the fringes like the snowline, change is much more evident.
Obviously this is limited in geography and time scale, and does not indicate whether the change is natural or man made. But whatever is responsible for it, it is definitely tangible in my world.
A fascinating read on this topic is "Superfreaknomics". They refer to amazingly cheap and easy geoengineering solutions, such as Budyko's Blanket and the Salter Sink. These (according to the book, and I have no evidence to believe otherwise) would solve the problem at less that the cost of Al Gores awarenbess campaign.
If global warming is a problem (and as a skier, I believe it is!), then the solution truly lies in geoengineering, not carbon reduction. Not because carbon reduction is theoretically wrong, but because we as a human population are simply not capable of reducing it. If the UN cannot stop somethign so tangible as genocide (see Rwanda for one example), how the hell can all the worlds leaders (ie Copenhagen) manage to resolve something so intangible as climate change? I simply have no faith we will agree to a reduciton target, let alone manage to coordinate efforts to actually reach that target.
Go get the book!
