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Tol Tol, VIC, 3549
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Forums > Kitesurfing General

Info for dice riders

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Created by eppo > 9 months ago, 2 Nov 2013
eppo
WA, 9579 posts
2 Nov 2013 8:37PM
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Shorten your back lines by a knot from the factory setting. Factory setting I noticed even pulled all the way in the kite wanted to move forward in the window. Changed today. Gives the pivot point to play with power and your edging at the right point at the bar throw.

Turns quicker for mega loops....see below. Much better low end and as you now have some throw to play with (before I was pulling the stopper and riding the bar right on the iron heart in the lulls), you can work on developing better apparent wind and can lock off much quicker.

Jumping much better float, as the kite doesn't fly over head as much.

I was asking questions with a local 85kg guy seemed to get out in such low winds and also was getting so much height and float on his 12m. Of course he is a sick rider, but still,

He has had many mor sessions on the 12 than me as I tend put my zephyr up when I can .

His fifth line is taught, his front lines haves stretched in to a nice position. Hence his kite is trimmed just right. Even with a knot shorter my fifth safety is still slightly slack so more to go. He even trims just slightly every session.

You do have to slightly depower though when unhooking as before you needn't worry. It's worth the hassle. Try it, it makes a difference.


Obvious but don't mega loop to close to shore. Came in way to hot, hit the shoreline, needless to say I don't remember getting help to pack up, nor most of the session. Concussion it seems. We are always pushing ourselves with the crew I kite with and dudes are always getting smashed, after a while we take little notice. They all came a running and were sure I had broken my neck.

Be careful guys.

greenleader
QLD, 5283 posts
2 Nov 2013 11:45PM
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waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
2 Nov 2013 11:11PM
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Select to expand quote
eppo said..

Concussion it seems.


Hmmm,

Your above post appears to be a little incoherent. ^^^

No offence, ok.

Take it easy, dude.

14Toeside
27 posts
2 Nov 2013 11:13PM
Thumbs Up

Eppo,

Sorry to hear about your mishap. Glad u r ok.

When you say shorten your back lines by a Knot, are you saying under the Bar floats? And are you saying use the Knots already there fron the Factory?

So your mate is Flying the Dice on 5 lines? Interesting.

Will Fly my 13 Dice 1 st time tomorrow.

14

DaylightDebt
WA, 296 posts
2 Nov 2013 11:17PM
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Intresting post, which colour knots? Ive been experimenting a lot with the knots mainley in sub 20 knott conditions. Fridays conditions were the sweet spot for the kite but i think i had put them back to factory???

I havnt got the bar in front of me to work it out.

like you say eppo i have noticed im riding the bar on the iron heart .

Im starting to get use to the frestyle caracteristics of the kite with the boosting, having come from rebels and evos its definatley a technique thing.

I have noticed that im working harder to get upwind probably my lack of experience with the kite!

Im really looking forward to getting it out in the waves im sure its going to make me a happy man.

dafish
NSW, 1649 posts
3 Nov 2013 8:37AM
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Careful Eppo, need you around to keep the reviews level and honest! Glad you are okay....
Why are you flying the kite as a five line anyway. I hear the kite has more power as a four line, and even Dan at North had made comment that the kite is better as a four. So what gives?

max_ob
QLD, 187 posts
3 Nov 2013 8:10AM
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Select to expand quote
eppo said..

Shorten your back lines by a knot from the factory setting. Factory setting I noticed even pulled all the way in the kite wanted to move forward in the window.



no expert here but did exactly that for same reason as Eppo after my first go on a new 8m dice in crappy wind. (under the ends of the bar, you have one knot left of shortening from factory setting). I gather once the kite has had use and the front lines stretch, will be time to put it back to the original setting. This is a 5 line set-up on a friend's new kite.


eppo
WA, 9579 posts
3 Nov 2013 7:12AM
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Select to expand quote
14Toeside said..

Eppo,

Sorry to hear about your mishap. Glad u r ok.

When you say shorten your back lines by a Knot, are you saying under the Bar floats? And are you saying use the Knots already there fron the Factory?

So your mate is Flying the Dice on 5 lines? Interesting.

Will Fly my 13 Dice 1 st time tomorrow.

14




No we all fly them on 4 lines. The be honest waveslave is right I wrote this long not after, when it was fresh in my brain that was rocking around my skull.

The rebel will always outdo the dice for upwind, just as say the edge will out do the reo. Its aspect. The evo had obvious low end grunt, but sat too far back in the window for my liking. Think the new incarnation coming will be an exciting kite actually.

Yes of course the knots that you can adjust at the bar end, (plastic side over thingy). Read your manuals. Personally I think its the old north over engineering thing, just give me a float I can pull up and change knots, like the ozone bar. Fcking about with plastic bits, trying to get the damn cover off, fck that. But hey it is what it is and it does work.

We are having no problems with the light end of this kite. Learn to fly a C kite, it flies really like an old C from the by gone days I reckon, with incredible smoothness.

eppo
WA, 9579 posts
3 Nov 2013 4:53PM
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Just to add something. I made the loop, apparently it was quote impressive. What happened was when I spun the bar, and started to plane out again I pulled the wrong side, well the bar was opposite to what I thought.

d head you might think and yes that is somewhat true, BUT, the new north bar has, get this, light blue and dark blue floats with a small red north on the left and whatever colour on the right. Sun in your eyes, couldn't see sht.

Only earlier I had dropped the kite in the water doing a back roll back loop and coming out did the same. Only I was well out in the estuary.

D head you may think and again you are right. BUT one of the riders I rate down here, said he did the same thing twice that session. And he did it again this morning. (I was only watching, my head feels like its been slammed by the Incredible Hulk).

Our solution, we are going to put some red shrink wrap on the left float. Apart from red interwoven seems in the left lines, from your perspective they look all the same colour. Plus because of the High Y and that long red safety the bar doesn't give you any clues which way it wants to be spun, nor do the lines give you any indication (comparing against my ozone bar, which almost unravels itself it tells you which way it wants to go. )

So be aware guys, maybe both of us a D heads, but we keep on doing this. Don't end up like me, reckon without experience on how to land and moving the kite straight into the bush on purpose this could have ended real bad.

Drewm
VIC, 159 posts
4 Nov 2013 2:40AM
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Eppo - yeah you're a d head Have been riding the 2014 bar since we got our first one back in july and not one person has mentioned the bar colour being an issue. There is a big red line through the wrong side of the bar indicating "you've got the bar upside down, d-head"

eppo
WA, 9579 posts
4 Nov 2013 8:08AM
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Okay maybe I am. Lol. I will see. But is it easy to see quickly when in a critical situation?

ta for the advice mate. I wills pass it on the rider who rate as the one of the best or the best down here and see if it makes a diff.

Maybe it is because we are looking at the line colours and bar floats for our indication.

Paul1
QLD, 1011 posts
4 Nov 2013 10:27AM
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You may want to get your eyes tested mate if you can't see the differences in colour on this bar, especially the red on the back of it at 1.25min...


eppo
WA, 9579 posts
4 Nov 2013 9:45AM
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Well I won't speak for myself, but a rider I know who would put most to shame, including you maybe, feels the same.

He rides hard and is looping, rolling etc all over the place and in a highly powered way..and he cannot see that red you are talking about quick enough. He's been at it 12 years, and you? He is a a very accomplished rider and one I'm always learning off. If it was some guy 4 to 5 years in who hasn't been around that much I'd be questioning myself as well.




My thoughts, feedback to north, make the outside lines completely different colors as well.

hey the bar is great, but as I have said before I'm not one eyed nor a zealous born again rider for one brand. I follow no cult. I say it as I see it, the good stuff and the warts.

But I will take the advice from drew and see.

Saffer
VIC, 4501 posts
4 Nov 2013 1:06PM
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Out of interest sake, do you guys think North should put in the plastic coated line?

Puetz
NT, 2183 posts
4 Nov 2013 11:44AM
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... Hey Eppo, not good to hear ya gave ya head a crack!

Just wondering, does the Dice have 2 knots on the front pig tail bridle ie one for 5 or 4 line bars? Have you noticed any differences when using you 4 line bar?

Robbie

eppo
WA, 9579 posts
4 Nov 2013 1:53PM
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Select to expand quote
Puetz said..

... Hey Eppo, not good to hear ya gave ya head a crack!

Just wondering, does the Dice have 2 knots on the front pig tail bridle ie one for 5 or 4 line bars? Have you noticed any differences when using you 4 line bar?

Robbie




Well I actually have a small bit of bruising on the neck, ever so slight, but both sides a bloody sore, gave myself a small dose of whiplash me thinks. Yeh the crew said they were shting themselves as they kited and ran over! Not good man, not good.

Hey robbie what ya mean? Yeh they are set up to be ridden 4 or 5 lines, they have a centre 5th line attachment thingy, in a pocket. easy as to rig to 5 lines. Is that what ya mean? You are the north expert man not me?

Fck 5 lines anyhow.

Yeh it's a kite that really changes a fair bit on 4 to 5. Heaps better low end and grunt etc on the 4 lines, its quite noticeable. That being said, 5th lines will kill the wing completely. But that is not why you are asking, yeh you can use your rebel/dyno 5th element bars, straight up. Some crew have taken off there 5th line thingy, I just keep it in the pocket on the leading edge.

Getting any wind up there man? Hows the crew?

Puetz
NT, 2183 posts
4 Nov 2013 4:02PM
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Select to expand quote
eppo said..
Puetz said..



... Hey Eppo, not good to hear ya gave ya head a crack!



Just wondering, does the Dice have 2 knots on the front pig tail bridle ie one for 5 or 4 line bars? Have you noticed any differences when using you 4 line bar?



Robbie


Well I actually have a small bit of bruising on the neck, ever so slight, but both sides a bloody sore, gave myself a small dose of whiplash me thinks. Yeh the crew said they were shting themselves as they kited and ran over! Not good man, not good.

Hey robbie what ya mean? Yeh they are set up to be ridden 4 or 5 lines, they have a centre 5th line attachment thingy, in a pocket. easy as to rig to 5 lines. Is that what ya mean? You are the north expert man not me?

Fck 5 lines anyhow.

Yeh it's a kite that really changes a fair bit on 4 to 5. Heaps better low end and grunt etc on the 4 lines, its quite noticeable. That being said, 5th lines will kill the wing completely. But that is not why you are asking, yeh you can use your rebel/dyno 5th element bars, straight up. Some crew have taken off there 5th line thingy, I just keep it in the pocket on the leading edge.

Getting any wind up there man? Hows the crew?


... crew good, just hanging for wind like every one else!!!

I thought that most of the bridled 4/5 line set ups on the norths have 2 positions which you either connect the lines on the end one for 5 line bar or the upper one if in 4 line mode. Just wondered if you used the 5 line knot with a 4 line bar which I think gives you the effect as if you shortened the rear lines by an inch or two???? I know the two knots are to compensate for the different Y point distances!

Anyway, just wondering is all!

cheers,

Robbie

streety
WA, 9 posts
4 Nov 2013 3:25PM
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hey

I totally agree with epo on this, yea the bar has a big red line on the wrong side to inform you have it the wrong way round, even above the float there is the red outer line,
But for me its just not as intuitive as other bars I have used, its not a criticism, its an observation, you do a loop you spin the bar to straighten the lines and because of the high y on the centre lines its super easy to spin the bar that extra 180 degrees grab onto it and send the kite in completely the wrong way before you know what has happened,
I think it is a valid point that epo has made, I saw his loop into the bush, nasty looking didn't know what to expect when I got to him but fortunately he landed on his head,lol
Given time I think anyone one with issues including myself will dial into it, but until then take care.

eppo
WA, 9579 posts
4 Nov 2013 3:41PM
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Select to expand quote
Paul1 said...
You may want to get your eyes tested mate if you can't see the differences in colour on this bar, especially the red on the back of it at 1.25min...







Actually I see what you mean Paul just watched the vid. Still might help things along a bit. Ta for that.

eppo
WA, 9579 posts
4 Nov 2013 3:46PM
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Select to expand quote
Puetz said...
eppo said..
Puetz said..



... Hey Eppo, not good to hear ya gave ya head a crack!



Just wondering, does the Dice have 2 knots on the front pig tail bridle ie one for 5 or 4 line bars? Have you noticed any differences when using you 4 line bar?



Robbie


Well I actually have a small bit of bruising on the neck, ever so slight, but both sides a bloody sore, gave myself a small dose of whiplash me thinks. Yeh the crew said they were shting themselves as they kited and ran over! Not good man, not good.

Hey robbie what ya mean? Yeh they are set up to be ridden 4 or 5 lines, they have a centre 5th line attachment thingy, in a pocket. easy as to rig to 5 lines. Is that what ya mean? You are the north expert man not me?

Fck 5 lines anyhow.

Yeh it's a kite that really changes a fair bit on 4 to 5. Heaps better low end and grunt etc on the 4 lines, its quite noticeable. That being said, 5th lines will kill the wing completely. But that is not why you are asking, yeh you can use your rebel/dyno 5th element bars, straight up. Some crew have taken off there 5th line thingy, I just keep it in the pocket on the leading edge.

Getting any wind up there man? Hows the crew?


... crew good, just hanging for wind like every one else!!!

I thought that most of the bridled 4/5 line set ups on the norths have 2 positions which you either connect the lines on the end one for 5 line bar or the upper one if in 4 line mode. Just wondered if you used the 5 line knot with a 4 line bar which I think gives you the effect as if you shortened the rear lines by an inch or two???? I know the two knots are to compensate for the different Y point distances!

Anyway, just wondering is all!

cheers,

Robbie




From what I can gather all I have seen is a fifth line coming off the dead middle of the leading edge where you connect up your fifth. No idea all the fifth line setups we demoed were already set up so we just rode them. no idea?

Ask Eddie man he would know then let us know ?

I just liked it on four lines and so bought a four line bar and don't even think about the fifth lines knots you are desrribing. Does it help if I told you it's not. Loaded fifth??

My comment o. Shortening the back lines is mainly squared at free riders. The kite is trimmed at the factory settings I think so you can unhook without touching the depower. Hence it's target market. I don't mind having to trim a little before I unhook if I get my bar bouncing a little higher off the iron heart.

eddiemorgs
QLD, 391 posts
4 Nov 2013 7:19PM
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But you would have to take the 5 th on the bar off as well - so have a dedicated 4 line bar.

What do you use for the flag line though ? - assume you just go suicide but what if you want a bit more safety ?

I shortened the back lines in the first 5 minutes. Really felt the lack of power in our wind and it made a lot of difference

eddiemorgs
QLD, 391 posts
4 Nov 2013 7:20PM
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Eppo , you really should get checked up cause you are not writing the same. Logic not quite as strong. You sound off the pace mate

eppo
WA, 9579 posts
4 Nov 2013 5:32PM
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Is this for me Eddie? Yeh I have a 4 line bar. 5 lines and me are not friends. Not saying one 5 lines are bad, just we don't talk to each anymore. Lol.

Yeh it flags on both fronts and yes it doesn't kill it completely. You activate the quick release it flags anyway, you should know that right?

But as I'm unhooking now, after getting over my fear of the old c kite days, always in suicide. Then again I always ride the ozone kites in suicide. I don't fck up often until Saturday. Ouch.

I don't quite get robbie way over my head regarding north and fifth lines, as I said left that behind with the rebel never to return.

Say hello to tony if ya see him for us. Bet his son is ripping now, did his dad finnally get him a proper C kite?

eppo
WA, 9579 posts
4 Nov 2013 5:34PM
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Select to expand quote
eddiemorgs said..

Eppo , you really should get checked up cause you are not writing the same. Logic not quite as strong. You sound off the pace mate




Agreed. My neck is not right hey, lucky I stretch morning and night!! My flexibility saved a serious injury I reckon.

But hey did you shorten the back lines as well. I better go back and red thumb you then, that seems the trend on the issue at the moment.

eddiemorgs
QLD, 391 posts
4 Nov 2013 7:45PM
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Yep go ahead with the red thumbs. Bit harsh I thought.

It worked for me anyway. The kite was not reacting as well as I thought it should , was pretty light wind. Maybe 12-14 on nugget and wanted to give my new kite a run. Made it feel more solid and reactive straight away.

Puetz
NT, 2183 posts
4 Nov 2013 7:17PM
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Select to expand quote
eppo said..
Is this for my Eddie? Yeh I have a 4 line bar. 5 lines and me are not friends. Not saying one 5 lines are bad, just we don't talk to each anymore. Lol.

Yeh it flags on both fronts and yes it doesn't kill it completely. You activate the quick release it flags anyway, you should know that right?

But as I'm unhooking now, after getting over my fear of the old c kite days, always in suicide. Then again I always ride the ozone kites in suicide. I don't fck up often until Saturday. Ouch.

I don't quite get robbie way over my head regarding north and fifth lines, as I said left that behind with the rebel never to return.

Say hello to tony if ya see him for us. Bet his son is ripping now, did his dad finnally get him a proper C kite?


... ahhh bugger it,,,,, don't worry, too hard to describe. Next time you hook up your bar to kites front lines, see if you have 2 knots at the end, I'm guessing you don't since you don't know what I'm saying ??

eppo
WA, 9579 posts
4 Nov 2013 5:53PM
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Ah the red thumbs teach you humility. They test how infatuated or identified you are with your own ego or story.

Sometimes I can disconnect, sometime I fail and respond.

Yeh as I said the kite I think is set up so you can ride and unhook without having to depower the kite.

While I'm here here is a review of the dice done by the iksurfmag. I sent this to some crew who have been on them a while and they all agreed it was bloody close to the mark. It also shows how deceptive those swept tips are and actually the kites overall profile is really C in nature rather than an open C like a lot of the all rounders. Interesting at least.m

www.iksurfmag.com/issue41/?page=107

They also do a good review on the bandit 7, the rally and another kite which I can't remember.

Worth a read anyhow.

eddiemorgs
QLD, 391 posts
4 Nov 2013 7:54PM
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Select to expand quote
Puetz said..

eppo said..
Is this for my Eddie? Yeh I have a 4 line bar. 5 lines and me are not friends. Not saying one 5 lines are bad, just we don't talk to each anymore. Lol.

Yeh it flags on both fronts and yes it doesn't kill it completely. You activate the quick release it flags anyway, you should know that right?

But as I'm unhooking now, after getting over my fear of the old c kite days, always in suicide. Then again I always ride the ozone kites in suicide. I don't fck up often until Saturday. Ouch.

I don't quite get robbie way over my head regarding north and fifth lines, as I said left that behind with the rebel never to return.

Say hello to tony if ya see him for us. Bet his son is ripping now, did his dad finnally get him a proper C kite?


... ahhh bugger it,,,,, don't worry, too hard to describe. Next time you hook up your bar to kites front lines, see if you have 2 knots at the end, I'm guessing you don't since you don't know what I'm saying ??


Classic. Eppo , we are are dunces when it comes to techie stuff

Capt.Gumby
VIC, 347 posts
4 Nov 2013 9:24PM
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Eppo and others in the know, can the donkey pick be easily removed? Don't use it but it gets it the way regardless of its orientation.

Puetz
NT, 2183 posts
5 Nov 2013 10:17AM
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Select to expand quote
Capt.Gumby said..
Eppo and others in the know, can the donkey pick be easily removed? Don't use it but it gets it the way regardless of its orientation.


... yeah a pair of side cutters but its a one way ticket for the stick!

Drewm
VIC, 159 posts
5 Nov 2013 12:28PM
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there's only one knot on the bridles for your front line attachment - The Dyno for example has two knots, one for if you're riding 5 line, and one for 4 lines. I assume the reason the kite rides a little differently on 5 lines is because the split of the front lines is much higher up than on the 4 line setup. Don't ask me what this does, but it changes the direction that the front lines are pulling from. The 5th line does nothing, just hangs there loosely as a safety feature.



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"Info for dice riders" started by eppo