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Naish Smart Loop 2009: New Part Arrived

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Created by Kadkhah > 9 months ago, 17 Nov 2008
Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
17 Nov 2008 12:07PM
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I have purchased a 12m 2009 cult and I have never seen any other kite that you can water relaunch it this easy, Pull the bar and its up again.
Kite it self is amazing and 70% of the time when I'm kite surfing every one else are standing with their kites at the beach.

How ever there is a very critical technical fault in its safety release system.

Most of the time I'm using the safety release system for self landing as it is the safest way.
Yesterday the knot between the line and the safety leash got stocked in this tube thing and dragged me for 15m at the shore and it acts like a suicide leash.
I'm so lucky that it was a sandy beach.

koma
VIC, 760 posts
17 Nov 2008 2:25PM
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So your saying that the red line got stuck in the metal housing.

Do you regularly inspect your equipment?
Do you test your quick release and safety features before each session?
Do you wash your bar and lines after each use?

Glad to hear you got out the situation relatively unscathed and are now able to reflect on it and hopefully prevent it from happening again.

Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
17 Nov 2008 12:42PM
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koma said...

So your saying that the red line got stuck in the metal housing.

Do you regularly inspect your equipment?
Do you test your quick release and safety features before each session?
Do you wash your bar and lines after each use?

Glad to hear you got out the situation relatively unscathed and are now able to reflect on it and hopefully prevent it from happening again.


yes
yes
and yes

But its almost impossible to prevent from this problem.
That metal hosing have some cuts in it and it is so tide that some times the knot will stock in that tide hose.

junglist
VIC, 701 posts
17 Nov 2008 3:06PM
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Thats not so smart

koma
VIC, 760 posts
17 Nov 2008 7:25PM
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Well a very easy way to modify it would be to put a small stopper ball on the underside of the metal T-piece. This would stop the line from as your describing jamming in there whilst still allowing the 'smart' line to pull through the bar in the even of activating it, leaving the stopper ball above the bar.

Edit: You might want to look at the way the connection between the red 'smart' line and the grey line is made. If it has moved or bunched up some of the red line then i can understand there's too much bulk in the metal housing.

How much force does it take to free the red smart line if you grab the metal housing and pull?
You may find that if you've flown the kite to the edge of the wind window whilst self landing then there isn't enough pull on the other front line to release the smart line.
Try activating the safety whilst it's even slightly powered and it should very quickly release. If it doesn't then i'd be talking to your Naish dealer.

Edit 2: You could always try bending the lower section of the metal housing open slightly to give it more room to move.

BrisKites
QLD, 1290 posts
17 Nov 2008 7:06PM
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Looks like Koma has given you some very sound advice there and as he mentioned if all else fails ask your dealer.
I'm just curious as to how the kite dragged you? If the line didn't release it would haver at least pulled both front lines to the bar which would have put the kite in a fully de-powered state.

As for the re-launch, I have to agree on that one. In very light winds a Rev or Bandit will re-launch a bit easier but when the wind is up the 09 Cult is the fastest around and can do it in any part of the wind window.

Jason

Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
17 Nov 2008 8:46PM
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koma said...


Edit 1: ...Try activating the safety whilst it's even slightly powered and it should very quickly release...

Edit 2: You could always try bending the lower section of the metal housing open slightly to give it more room to move.


Thank you so much Koma for your respond
1) After I failed my landing the kite powered up again and I was only hanging from the safety leash (like suicide leash) and its the maximum power that I can put on that leash.

2) I am not sure that if I bend it then I'll be able to complain about this technical fault

I think Naish dealers should notify Naish about this matter and hopefully they will come up with a stopper ball or something before it hurt someone.
The whole idea of kite should be this much and that much powered till your safety system works is kind of scary.

Good Wind
Alex

Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
17 Nov 2008 8:53PM
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BrisKites said...

...I'm just curious as to how the kite dragged you? If the line didn't release it would haver at least pulled both front lines to the bar which would have put the kite in a fully de-powered state.
...
Jason


A very simple simulation will be like using a suicide leash on a 12m kite and 22 knots wind
When the kite start to moving from 3 O'clock to 9 O'clock it will pick you up and you will be hanging on your back (Scary isn't it?)
AND because I'm hanging from my back I can't release the second safety release on the end of the leash.

BrisKites
QLD, 1290 posts
18 Nov 2008 10:04AM
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A very simple simulation will be like using a suicide leash on a 12m kite and 22 knots wind
When the kite start to moving from 3 O'clock to 9 O'clock it will pick you up and you will be hanging on your back (Scary isn't it?)
AND because I'm hanging from my back I can't release the second safety release on the end of the leash.



I actually do ride a Cult on suicide and no it doesn't drag me 15m when going through the zone in 22knt. Maybe about 3 feet.

Just trying to get some detailed info on exactly what happened at the time as it doesn't add up. The only way the kite could have dragged you that much is if the bar wasnt allowed to slide to the front lines.

Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
18 Nov 2008 10:00AM
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BrisKites said...

...I actually do ride a Cult on suicide and no it doesn't drag me 15m when going through the zone in 22knt. Maybe about 3 feet...


Please see the first 5sec of this video.

A Bomber
QLD, 114 posts
18 Nov 2008 11:30AM
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As an employee of the Naish importer for Australia, I have PM'd Kadkhah in an effort to get to the bottom of this issue.
while it does not appear to be a serial fault of the smart loop as many of you who ride the system can attest, the best piece of advice that can be taken from this is to serve as a reminder for everyone to check their bar and lines every time they rig, especially any moving parts that make up the safety systems of the kite. manually releasing the frontline from the tube Kadkhah has described EVERY time you rig should be a part of every smart loop users checks. This will clear anything that might sieze this piece and make sure that the rest of us wont experience kad's sandy excursion.
so check your lines and keep enjoying the smart loop...
Aidan

skiddz
NT, 237 posts
18 Nov 2008 1:24PM
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Kadkhah said...

BrisKites said...

...I actually do ride a Cult on suicide and no it doesn't drag me 15m when going through the zone in 22knt. Maybe about 3 feet...


Please see the first 5sec of this video.




jeez dude that video is fairly old in regards to kiteboarding, those kite had very little depower available at the bar, hence you get dragged alot when you ride suicide.

I still don't understand how the kite didn't depower if your leash is attached to the 'mini 5th'. And even if it was connected by suicide as you say, the bar would have still traveled up the center lines and depowered?

Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
18 Nov 2008 1:03PM
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skiddz said...

... if your leash is attached to the 'mini 5th'. And even if it was connected by suicide as you say, the bar would have still traveled up the center lines and depowered?


1) 2009 Cult is a 4 liner, there is no 5th line or ?mini 5th?. If you are talking about the safety release leash then when its connected to a hook beside your chicken loop and its not pulling one of the front lines then it will act like a suicide leash, Just like connect the leash straight to the chicken loop
2) There is no 100% depower and when your kite is going to the power zone it will drag you anyway.

meerkat
WA, 644 posts
18 Nov 2008 2:35PM
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Kadkhah said...

I have purchased a 12m 2009 cult


Well there's your first problem

Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
18 Nov 2008 2:58PM
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meerkat said...

Kadkhah said...

I have purchased a 12m 2009 cult


Well there's your first problem


Don't get me wrong mate, its an awesome kite.
Last Sunday I've been kite surfing from 3:30 PM (2km south of Leighton beach) and I've been watching all the kite surfer waiting till 5:00.
Dude 1.5 hours they wish they had a cult.
I don't have any complains about the kite or bar pressure.
Its just a very small tricky part of the bar that can be fixed with a 50c piece of plastic.
I'm just informing the users and manufacturers.

Good Wind
Alex

Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
18 Nov 2008 3:51PM
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Here is my 2cent;





meerkat
WA, 644 posts
18 Nov 2008 4:07PM
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Kadkhah said
Last Sunday I've been kite surfing from 3:30 PM (2km south of Leighton beach) and I've been watching all the kite surfer waiting till 5:00. Dude 1.5 hours they wish they had a cult.


A 12m kite is a pretty big kite to have in perth in summer? either you weigh a fair bit, have a board made out of lead or enjoy being dragged butt first downwind.

If(and when) the seabreezes finally turn up then your 12m will be sitting in the shed. Also, there are many 12m kites that will out perform the wind range of a cult, theres also technique blah blah.....who cares.

As for the "technical fault". Most kites can be tweaked by the rider to suit their needs. Sounds like the naish guy who posted earlier can help you out.

i do hope you have a smaller kite or 5m lines to fly your 12m on for when the seabreezes finally kick in. Also means i won't have time to be posting ****e on this forum

skiddz
NT, 237 posts
18 Nov 2008 4:38PM
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Kadkhah said...

skiddz said...

... if your leash is attached to the 'mini 5th'. And even if it was connected by suicide as you say, the bar would have still traveled up the center lines and depowered?


1) 2009 Cult is a 4 liner, there is no 5th line or ?mini 5th?. If you are talking about the safety release leash then when its connected to a hook beside your chicken loop and its not pulling one of the front lines then it will act like a suicide leash, Just like connect the leash straight to the chicken loop
2) There is no 100% depower and when your kite is going to the power zone it will drag you anyway.


never said they're was 100% depower. But I can put my 09 Torch straight through the power zone and let go of the bar, and get dragged a whole of what, half a meter downwind? That has less bar throw then the 09 cult as well...

btw, how much wind were you using the 12m kite in?

Mad Dog Morgan
NSW, 25 posts
18 Nov 2008 6:26PM
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Hi Alex,

I think that the new setup is designed to work under max load and not when the kite is at the edge of the window.

The other problem could also be that when you through the bar and then pull the quick release it depowers the kite so much that it won’t flag to one line because it has no power.

I'd suggest that you learn to self land.

Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
18 Nov 2008 4:30PM
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I started from 12 knots and I came out when it was around 22-25 knots

Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
18 Nov 2008 4:38PM
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Mad Dog Morgan said...

Hi Alex,

I think that the new setup is designed to work under max load and not when the kite is at the edge of the window.

The other problem could also be that when you through the bar and then pull the quick release it depowers the kite so much that it won’t flag to one line because it has no power.

I'd suggest that you learn to self land.



Depowered kite can not drag the rider.
Self land in 22 knots with a 12m kite is a little tricky and you always have the chance that your kite slips from the edge of the window to the power zone again.
That's why I'm using the safety release for self land.
It works well now as I'm pulling the line knot out of the hosing first then perform my landing but in a situation that you need to release your self from your kite you don't have the time or access to remove the knot from the hosing!

walshd
SA, 601 posts
24 Nov 2008 2:24PM
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Kadkhah said...

I have purchased a 12m 2009 cult and I have never seen any other kite that you can water relaunch it this easy, Pull the bar and its up again.
Kite it self is amazing and 70% of the time when I'm kite surfing every one else are standing with their kites at the beach.

How ever there is a very critical technical fault in its safety release system.

Most of the time I'm using the safety release system for self landing as it is the safest way.
Yesterday the knot between the line and the safety leash got stocked in this tube thing and dragged me for 15m at the shore and it acts like a suicide leash.
I'm so lucky that it was a sandy beach.




I had a good look over the new naish system about a month ago and the amount of potential problems with this new swivel is SHOCKING!!!!

Worst fault I saw was how the line can jam in that slot for attaching the larks head knot when resetting the system. This would effectively shorten one of you front lines by about 2 inches and send the kite into a death loop.

I reckon that 'tube with the 2 slots' that your red line jams in should be cut off to eliminate your problem and the one I've highlighted above.

i.e. like this:


Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
24 Nov 2008 1:38PM
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walshd said...


I had a good look over the new naish system about a month ago and the amount of potential problems with this new swivel is SHOCKING!!!!

Worst fault I saw was how the line can jam...





Yesterday I've seen another 2009 Cult at the Leighton and it was different from what we have in the photos.
Apparently Naish realized about this problem and they have redesigned this connection.
I will contact them today to see if they will send me one of their new parts.



P.S. I suggest if you are a 2009 Naish owner and your smart loop looks like what we have here in the photos, it is safer to ask for the new part from Naish.

(I'll upload the photo of new smart loop as soon as I got it)

Good Wind
Alex

Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
25 Nov 2008 10:06AM
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GOOD NEWS:


RE: 2009 Smart Loop
Monday, November 24, 2008 11:20 AM
From:"@#$%^&" <@#$%^&@naishsails.com>
Add sender to Contacts
To:"'Alex Kadkhah'"
Hello Alex,

We do have a new part with some changes on it. It is very easy to switch.
Let me know your address and your shops info and I will get you a new piece.

Best Regards,
@#$%^&

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Kadkhah
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:18 PM
To: @#$%^&
Subject: 2009 Smart Loop

@#$%^&
I've purchased a 2009 Cult one month ago and the new smart loop release
system is not working well (as per attached photo).
And I had this conversation in the local forum about this matter.
Yesterday I've seen another 2009 smart loop and it was different than the
attached photo and mine.
If you have redesigned this part will you please send me the new one as the
current one is not working properly? (the other day it dragged me for 15m at
the beach)

Regards
Alex


That means
1) If you have an old part like the above photo you can contact the Naish website and they will send you the new part.
2) All the new kites in the shops are coming with the new part on them (it should be only handful of people with this problem)

Good Wind
Alex

koma
VIC, 760 posts
25 Nov 2008 1:08PM
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Mind posting a photo of the new part so we can compare the before and after?

Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
25 Nov 2008 11:40AM
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koma said...

Mind posting a photo of the new part so we can compare the before and after?


I've seen it at Leighton on Sunday.
It is the same shape just the hose is a little larger and it doesn't have any cuts on it so if you use the safety leash to self land and some how your kite powered up again your line wont stock in the cuts.

I'll upload the photo as soon as I received it.

Cheers

Ben Heath
WA, 14 posts
25 Nov 2008 1:15PM
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There has been a change as Alex described. I was the kiter at Leighton Alex was speaking with. He showed me the bar and lines that came with his kite and it appears that Naish have already recognised the potential problem as my kite does not have the grooves cut into the cylinders that each line runs through above the swivel. I will try and upload photos this evening.

Cheers,

Ben.

Cloudsfan
1 posts
15 Dec 2008 3:33AM
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Well, I'd be more than interested to see the changes on that part. Any pics now ?
Cheers

Kadkhah
WA, 381 posts
15 Dec 2008 9:40PM
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Revision 0


Revision 1




Revision 2

FLKiteboardR
23 posts
14 Jan 2009 9:34AM
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-
Here are some pictures of the swivel that came with my '2009' Naish SLE Bar -




Note the small piece of line inserted in the '5th-line' guide loop




Aforementioned piece of line was removed for clarity

FLKiteboardR
23 posts
14 Jan 2009 9:52AM
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The 2009 SLE control system has been streamlined and simplified.
Improvements include a new center line attachment system,
a stainless steel swivel, and a spinning front line leash.

The flying line connection/leader lines have also been streamlined by moving
the rear line attachment points closer to the bar, where they are covered by the large floaters.
Now steering the kite with line twists is easier, since there are no knots at the end of the leader lines.

The styling of the bar is also distinct with a new more ergonomic grip,
and a new bar end that allows easy bar length adjustment.
The bar can function as either 19" or 21" bar with the simple 180 rotation of the plastic line retainer.

For 2009, there is a single dedicated 1:1 with the below the bar sheeting on the Smart Loop.
The SLE Control System can also be easily retro-fitted with an optional 5h Line kit.
The clean design allows you to focus on your kiting experience.

Just a 'head's-up' -

It seems a limited number (transition period?) of 2009 Naish Control Bars shipped without the *NEW* adjustable bar ends.

Check my 2009 Naish SLE Control Bar picture below -

You'll notice that everything is '2009' including the bar itself, with the exception of the 'fixed' bar ends
(and the floaters are not cut at an angle where they meet up with the bar ends)

You might want to have your Naish dealer visually inspect the control bars that came with his 2009 Kites

to confirm it is 100% 2009, before shipping them out.





Below are some pictures of a TRUE, 2009 Naish SLE Control Bar -
The bar's color scheme/pattern is the same, your just viewing the 'back side' this time.


Note the adjustable bar ends


Note the "19-21" on the bar and the angle-cut floater


...just remove and flip to adjust the bar length



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"Naish Smart Loop 2009: New Part Arrived" started by Kadkhah