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POLL: How much max would you pay for WAKSA m'ship?

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Created by Fooosh > 9 months ago, 12 Jul 2011
Fooosh
WA, 563 posts
12 Jul 2011 11:53PM
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I would pay: $150 a year.

I would expect (in priority):
1. 3rd party Liability Insurance (equal or better terms than this year)
2. Option of equipment cover (theft, accidental damage) +$100
3. Fees directly supporting active securing of kiting access in WA
4. Range of WA based events: Kitestock, Wave, Downies, Freestyle, Course Racing, Socials (extra entry fees ok)
5. Other promotion of kiteboarding.

Post your answers please!

Jared888
WA, 389 posts
13 Jul 2011 9:06AM
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???

Golf club membership $876 plus $100 grey water levy this year

Wifes rolla derby club fee's $300, plus $50 to rec center every month,

Not sure what would be acceptable depends on what you get,

For me in the SW I dont think I need it, have personal insurance and there never seems to be anyone around so public liabilty is negliagble, work away so would miss most events aswell.

Not for everyone

inside grunt
WA, 72 posts
13 Jul 2011 9:21AM
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Jarred get off the computer and get down to main break, it's pumping!!

dbabicwa
WA, 808 posts
13 Jul 2011 11:52AM
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I recon 780 members association can actually get a better deal from an Insurance company. However:

1) What will happen if more than 2 $140000 claims in WA only? Does it mean $500 membership? Or we won't be able to get insurance at all?
2) So now is $250?
3) I would support this by all means!
4) Extra fees? So it's >$350 now:)
5) Promoting yes, I would support this! I still like kitesurfing better:)

I think $65 was ok, $125 is a way to much. This is only 3rd party Liability.
Add on top $$$ for personal insurance, and it's getting quite expensive.

That reminds me, when I fractured my wrist in Japan this year, I've paid $110 for completely everything in the private hospital!

Can you believe this? Japan most expensive country in the world...

Also:
have a look here: www.windsurfing.org/insurance.htm

laurie
WA, 3848 posts
13 Jul 2011 1:17PM
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Some background for those who don't know...

This is how I understand the situation:

Insurance premium to cover ALL AKSA members was $15,000 / year, each member paid .. $65 /year.

There was a paid out claim last year for $140,000.

But .. now the insurance premium to cover everybody is now ~ $115,000 / year.

Each member now : $120 / year

GreenPat
QLD, 4083 posts
13 Jul 2011 5:20PM
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dbabicwa said...

I recon 780 members association can actually get a better deal from an Insurance company.


If you can find it, I'm sure WAKSA and/or AKSA would be keen to know. On what basis do you base this opinion? Do you know something WAKSA and AKSA do not? They have spent many hours and many phonecalls searching for a better deal, and have been unable to find one. They have also compared the options for a smaller number of members to a larger number, and the larger national body numbers get a much better price than the smaller.

sebol
WA, 753 posts
13 Jul 2011 4:19PM
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Can you give us the run down on the particular events that generated a pay out of $140 000 so we can learn from someone's mistake?
If we all need to pay an extra $55 for it, we may as well get the info.

poor relative
WA, 9089 posts
13 Jul 2011 4:31PM
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$120 for tireless representation in local council, for kitestock, for downwinders, for BBQ's for insurance etc

Sounds good to me.

dusta
WA, 2940 posts
13 Jul 2011 4:31PM
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i have sent off the policy to my insurance broker to get a quote to cover me fully for income protection and third party insurance .

winter
VIC, 155 posts
13 Jul 2011 6:32PM
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How much would you spend in one night on the piss ?
Hangliding federation Australia membership is around $300

dbabicwa
WA, 808 posts
13 Jul 2011 4:58PM
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GreenPat said...

dbabicwa said...

I recon 780 members association can actually get a better deal from an Insurance company.

They have also compared the options for a smaller number of members to a larger number, and the larger national body numbers get a much better price than the smaller.


Yes, this is an echo from yesterday. Did we see the comparison? Excel or similar? As mentioned yesterday, we need the run down on all expenses.

As I understand, waksa paid insurance to Aksa and they went with the QBE?! How much waksa paid of $15,000/year, I don't remember.

Did you actually see the Insurance policy? General stuff, kite surfing not mentioned anywhere...

From AKSA email (26/12/2010):

$65 Insurance premium
$30 AKSA operating funds
$30 State Association operating funds
Cycling - Ins cover = $5M membership fee = $105

It is not $120 but $125 and more (if AKSA will go with the constitutional changes).

For around $150,000 insurance/members, insurers should give much more than general 3rd public liability policy. Btw, it doesn't say anything up to how many millions? 5-10-20? how much? My Personal Liability policy was $2,500,000...

Anyway, don't take it personally, it's for all of us, and give us some facts.

I would pay $60 to waksa for their tireless representation but get insurance elsewhere? How can I do that? :) Oops, I can't...

Surfer62
1357 posts
13 Jul 2011 5:30PM
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laurie said...


Some background for those who don't know...

This is how I understand the situation:

Insurance premium to cover ALL AKSA members was $15,000 / year, each member paid .. $65 /year.

There was a paid out claim last year for $140,000.

But .. now the insurance premium to cover everybody is now ~ $115,000 / year.

Each member now : $120 / year



laurie,

What was the $140k payout for ? Is there a lesson there for all kiters ?

kitelooper1
112 posts
13 Jul 2011 6:20PM
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Try an offshore insurer with a local agent. Cheap as.

They will give you a certificate which willl keep the Councils happy.

Heaps of people are doing this becasue the insurers for public liability for so called high risk areas are absolute sharks.

Lawyers and insurers are in cahoots. If we had a revolution one day I would lead the lynch mob against these blood sucking scumbags.

Fooosh
WA, 563 posts
13 Jul 2011 6:51PM
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People... it was supposed to be a poll not a raging debate and inquiry about insurance etc.

If you must post comments, please at least post how much you're willing to pay too!!

Or start a separate thread.

Cheers m'dears!

the gibbo
WA, 776 posts
13 Jul 2011 7:21PM
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Fooosh said...

People... it was supposed to be a poll not a raging debate and enquiry about insurance etc.

If you must post comments, please at least post how much you're willing to pay too!!

Or start a separate thread.

Cheers m'dears!


Hey it fine to say what are you prepared to pay it has absolutely nothing to do with what you will have to pay or what the insurance companies will dictate you should pay.

Volunteer organisation/non profit WAKSA will only fwd charges based on absolute minimum contribution, i presume.

Dont go offshore the liabilities are tied up elswhere and if there's a problem you just end up getting sued personally anyway. Just because you hold a insurance policy it does no indemnify you against legal action.

Couple o hundred sounds fair to me

gruezi
WA, 3464 posts
13 Jul 2011 9:37PM
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125

Good post.

Addikt
WA, 551 posts
13 Jul 2011 11:03PM
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laurie said...

There was a paid out claim last year for $140,000.



What was that, might help some people understand how it covers them ?

Elroy Jetson
WA, 706 posts
13 Jul 2011 11:25PM
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I suppose we would have to work out how much it would cost us if nobody paid membership to Waksa and nobody represented us kiters.

Imagine if a council got a series of complaints about kite surfing at a location. The council inspected the beach, asked a few questions and couldn't find anybody who represented them. The council will then manage beach access for kiting without a kiting voice and will appease the group of people complaining.

In such a world there would be little chance of maintaining metro beach access for kiters. Many popular beaches out of town would also be off limits.


I enjoy kiting metro beaches at the end of a work day during the week in Summer. Losing access to this resource alone would cost me, in lost fun, exponentially more than $125.

tightlines
WA, 3477 posts
13 Jul 2011 11:27PM
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$125-$150 sounds ok, anymore than that and you will start to lose members.
I personally am quite happy with that as I attended kite stock and competed in the L2L and Wedge Wave comp, but there is heaps of people that are only interested in the insurance cover.
I dip my hat to Juddy and the rest of the WAKSA crew you have done/are doing an amazing job, I am sure you had hoped for a different outcome from last nights meeting but I think it just goes to show how much faith the members have in our local reps and be it warranted or not our concerns that we may just get lost within the the national organisation.










Elroy Jetson
WA, 706 posts
13 Jul 2011 11:37PM
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Jared888 said...



For me in the SW I dont think I need it, have personal insurance and there never seems to be anyone around so public liabilty is negliagble, work away so would miss most events aswell.

Not for everyone


Well it doesn't sound like you need it now.

You might need that public liability insurance in the future when 50 odd Euro's, a few dozen metro kiters and 3 kite schools rock up to your local because kiting at all Perth beaches was banned

Fooosh
WA, 563 posts
14 Jul 2011 8:10AM
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Fooosh said...

People... it was supposed to be a poll not a raging debate and inquiry about insurance etc.

If you must post comments, please at least post how much you're willing to pay too!!

Or start a separate thread.

Cheers m'dears!


Addikt, elroy, everyone, How much Max will you pay?

Elroy Jetson
WA, 706 posts
14 Jul 2011 9:26AM
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I would have paid $250 for the organisation and representation I recieved/witnessed last year.

Jared888
WA, 389 posts
14 Jul 2011 10:26AM
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Elroy Jetson said...

Jared888 said...



For me in the SW I dont think I need it, have personal insurance and there never seems to be anyone around so public liabilty is negliagble, work away so would miss most events aswell.

Not for everyone


Well it doesn't sound like you need it now.

You might need that public liability insurance in the future when 50 odd Euro's, a few dozen metro kiters and 3 kite schools rock up to your local because kiting at all Perth beaches was banned




I hear that metropolitan surfers and kite surfers alike are kooks that need a frothing beard trimming, to calm them down, by manny people, Is it really true

so when do you think itll be banned in perth and for what reasons, plase give me the heads up, it'll give me time to relocate out of the way of metroploitan clutches.

Elroy Jetson
WA, 706 posts
14 Jul 2011 2:04PM
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I think you missed the point Jared.

If the association that represents kiters has limited membership support because everyone justifies themselves like you have, kiters lose a strong voice and beach access will be limited by the powers that be.

It sounds like your confident it won't happen to your beach so you don't care. You don't see the value in it.

It's not a threat on your way of life but have a logical think where kiters will go when they can no longer kite at their local?

They will A) give up kiting for good
B) be forced to travel to another kiting spot and kite there

Most kiters don't want to be in a position to make this choice. So they become members of WAKSA.



dbabicwa
WA, 808 posts
14 Jul 2011 3:29PM
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Elroy Jetson said...

I would have paid $250 for the organisation and representation I recieved/witnessed last year.



How do you justify $250? How many hours are you on the water?

If like 250hrs than fair enough. My second season and I hardy made 25 hours (work, injuries, etc.). don't just tell go out more...Coz till now, I've spent 10hrs at least with waksa/Joondalup/Scarb. meetings just like others did.

This pool is really how much you can afford. Me not much.

Addikt
WA, 551 posts
14 Jul 2011 4:34PM
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Fooosh said...

Fooosh said...

People... it was supposed to be a poll not a raging debate and inquiry about insurance etc.

If you must post comments, please at least post how much you're willing to pay too!!

Or start a separate thread.

Cheers m'dears!


Addikt, elroy, everyone, How much Max will you pay?




Mmmm probably $85 bucks......not to put value on the effort WAKSA does for us but more to answer the question straight up!

sebol
WA, 753 posts
14 Jul 2011 4:44PM
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I will pay $125 if you guarantee my entry in the Redbull race as part of the membership.
Elroy,about that $50 you owe me???
$250
Man, you make too much cash,can I work with you?

dusta
WA, 2940 posts
14 Jul 2011 5:24PM
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is it too much to get some kind of response on the $140,000 payout

TBH i feel as a paying member i/other members are entitled to know why our fees are doubling . It's not the cost but why they are going up . Surely that can't be confidential . Not like we need names and **** , just an explanation to paying members .

don't want to reply about it on here, then how about an email out to the memberlist .

Addikt
WA, 551 posts
14 Jul 2011 7:32PM
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dusta said...

is it too much to get some kind of response on the $140,000 payout

TBH i feel as a paying member i/other members are entitled to know why our fees are doubling . It's not the cost but why they are going up . Surely that can't be confidential . Not like we need names and **** , just an explanation to paying members .

don't want to reply about it on here, then how about an email out to the memberlist .


But wait are those Cab lines !!!!!


sebol
WA, 753 posts
15 Jul 2011 1:00PM
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With 3 separate requests to find out the story on that $140 000 pay out, still no reply??????

Is it top secret information? Is it just a made up story to get us to swallow the increase in the membership premium?

Wouldn't thing so with a non-profit organisation, could you please deliver the goods or at least explain why we cannot benefit from the knowledge that unfortunate accident can happen and that the consequences can be costly.

Hope someone can shine the light on that particular claim.
We are not looking for blame, just what happened????

WAKSA
WA, 813 posts
15 Jul 2011 1:22PM
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The reference in an earlier post to a $140K payout was one of approx 5 claims against the PL insurance policy that were finalised during 2009/10.

The incident itself occurred back in 2007/08 and was the unfortunate result of a kiter colliding with a surfer who suffered significant damage to his eye/eye socket. Other claims settled during 2009/10 included one in which a kite damaged a car (how, I don't know); and a couple of less substantial injury claims – but injury claims all the same.

Just as with a car or house insurance policies, when you make a claim the policy goes up in the subsequent years and you lose the 'no claim bonus' – explaining how and why our membership fees went through the roof last season.


Juddy
on behalf of WAKSA.



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"POLL: How much max would you pay for WAKSA m'ship?" started by Fooosh