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Cottles Bridge, VIC, 3099
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Forums > Kitesurfing General

Unhooking

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Created by Jmart > 9 months ago, 15 Jan 2013
Jmart
SA, 7 posts
16 Jan 2013 12:12AM
Thumbs Up

Only been kiting one season but confidents is high any tips on starting to unhook and basic unhooked menovours?

sir ROWDY
WA, 5353 posts
15 Jan 2013 10:22PM
Thumbs Up

The raley is the best trick to learn proper technique and how to set an edge for most other unhooked tricks, so I would probably start there. Get them dialed in well and then move on to back and front rolls.

My biggest tip is learn how to set a deep consistent edge and commit properly to the trick. Keep your hands in the centre of the bar, bear off the wind slightly to unhook, then set a progressive edge. Don't edge too hard straight away, you want to progressively dig your rail harder in the water. When you feel the kite wanting to rip you off the water throw your legs behind you and let it pull you out.

Obviously this takes some practice but the first part is the hardest, once you get started you want wont to stop.

sir ROWDY
WA, 5353 posts
15 Jan 2013 10:24PM
Thumbs Up

The raley is the best trick to learn proper technique and how to set an edge for most other unhooked tricks, so I would probably start there. Get them dialed in well and then move on to back and front rolls.

My biggest tip is learn how to set a deep consistent edge and commit properly to the trick. Keep your hands in the centre of the bar, bear off the wind slightly to unhook, then set a progressive edge. Don't edge too hard straight away, you want to progressively dig your rail harder in the water. When you feel the kite wanting to rip you off the water throw your legs behind you and let it pull you out.

Obviously this takes some practice but the first part is the hardest, once you get started you want wont to stop.

theDoctor
NSW, 5784 posts
16 Jan 2013 2:41AM
Thumbs Up

sir ROWDY said...
The raley is the best trick to learn proper technique and how to set an edge for most other unhooked tricks, so I would probably start there. Get them dialed in well and then move on to back and front rolls.

My biggest tip is learn how to set a deep consistent edge and commit properly to the trick. Keep your hands in the centre of the bar, bear off the wind slightly to unhook, then set a progressive edge. Don't edge too hard straight away, you want to progressively dig your rail harder in the water. When you feel the kite wanting to rip you off the water throw your legs behind you and let it pull you out.

Obviously this takes some practice but the first part is the hardest, once you get started you want wont to stop.


theDoctor
NSW, 5784 posts
16 Jan 2013 2:41AM
Thumbs Up

sir ROWDY said...
The raley is the best trick to learn proper technique and how to set an edge for most other unhooked tricks, so I would probably start there. Get them dialed in well and then move on to back and front rolls.

My biggest tip is learn how to set a deep consistent edge and commit properly to the trick. Keep your hands in the centre of the bar, bear off the wind slightly to unhook, then set a progressive edge. Don't edge too hard straight away, you want to progressively dig your rail harder in the water. When you feel the kite wanting to rip you off the water throw your legs behind you and let it pull you out.

Obviously this takes some practice but the first part is the hardest, once you get started you want wont to stop.


random101
VIC, 90 posts
16 Jan 2013 2:50AM
Thumbs Up

Also remember to rig up your leash properly... I forgot I had mine on the 100% depower line so... when I let go of the kite had to chase the bar up pretty quickly to stop Mr. Tangles

gcdave
534 posts
16 Jan 2013 5:08AM
Thumbs Up

Double check ur safety leash, throw a bit of depower of ur kite with some board speed and room down wind, unhook and edge for happy days

Nuking
NSW, 83 posts
16 Jan 2013 10:21AM
Thumbs Up

You should to be getting down a hooked in backroll first before progressing to unhooked.

First depower the kite and attach to suicide. Practice bearing off and unhooking and riding along then hooking back in a few times.

A raley needs speed and load hard on the edge with kite at 45. I recommend for your first unhooked move try the backroll. Moderate speed, kite high and scoop upwind (rather than load and pop) into the backroll. It's easier to follow the momentum and doesn't need as much commitment as a raley.

Also try front rolls then raley. These 3 moves are the basis for more advanced unhooked moves.

Mikedobee
NSW, 331 posts
16 Jan 2013 1:09PM
Thumbs Up

Hi mate, I am pretty much in the same boat as you. Tried to unhook a couple of times and do the raley, but didn't come out good. So what I did, I practiced some sort of raley hooked. Practiced that a couple of sessions and got to this:



Then got the backroll and now my next session will be trying to unhook again.

Jmart
SA, 7 posts
16 Jan 2013 12:58PM
Thumbs Up

Yer I'm in that boat to iv got double backrolls hocked in fine and front rolls fine hooked in raileys or what u would call that basic transitions and some toe side air

Might try the unhooked back first thanks for all the help guys

stamp
QLD, 2776 posts
16 Jan 2013 1:12PM
Thumbs Up

Nuking said...


A raley needs speed and load hard on the edge with kite at 45. I recommend for your first unhooked move try the backroll. Moderate speed, kite high and scoop upwind (rather than load and pop) into the backroll. It's easier to follow the momentum and doesn't need as much commitment as a raley.



this is exactly why you should learn a raley first. your edge and release should be the same for all tricks. learning to do a proper raley will teach you how to pop with the board and not the kite. learning an unhooked backroll without commitment and kite high will only instil bad habits.

there is no shortcut to learning a raley. unlike back and front rolls, you can't do them hooked in to get the feeling because it's totally different. as rowdy says the power generated by your edge should yank you off the water and force your body to stretch out flat from your hnds right through to your legs. you can't replicate this hooked in.

sir ROWDY
WA, 5353 posts
16 Jan 2013 11:35AM
Thumbs Up

stamp said...
Nuking said...


A raley needs speed and load hard on the edge with kite at 45. I recommend for your first unhooked move try the backroll. Moderate speed, kite high and scoop upwind (rather than load and pop) into the backroll. It's easier to follow the momentum and doesn't need as much commitment as a raley.



this is exactly why you should learn a raley first. your edge and release should be the same for all tricks. learning to do a proper raley will teach you how to pop with the board and not the kite. learning an unhooked backroll without commitment and kite high will only instil bad habits.

there is no shortcut to learning a raley. unlike back and front rolls, you can't do them hooked in to get the feeling because it's totally different. as rowdy says the power generated by your edge should yank you off the water and force your body to stretch out flat from your hnds right through to your legs. you can't replicate this hooked in.



dafrog
321 posts
16 Jan 2013 12:49PM
Thumbs Up

stamp said...
Nuking said...


A raley needs speed and load hard on the edge with kite at 45. I recommend for your first unhooked move try the backroll. Moderate speed, kite high and scoop upwind (rather than load and pop) into the backroll. It's easier to follow the momentum and doesn't need as much commitment as a raley.



this is exactly why you should learn a raley first. your edge and release should be the same for all tricks. learning to do a proper raley will teach you how to pop with the board and not the kite. learning an unhooked backroll without commitment and kite high will only instil bad habits.

there is no shortcut to learning a raley. unlike back and front rolls, you can't do them hooked in to get the feeling because it's totally different. as rowdy says the power generated by your edge should yank you off the water and force your body to stretch out flat from your hnds right through to your legs. you can't replicate this hooked in.


Hmm I disagree somewhat with that, I think there is an intermediate step that will help getting the timing right: the Gay-ley... it's a hooked-in jump that replicates the raley while still being hooked.

Basically... tac hard and gather a fair bit of speed and try to have your bar half depowered like if you were going upwind normally but fast and edge hard into an oncoming chop and pop while keeping your kite where it is (halfway up in the window, the goal is distance not height) but getting the power fully in... this should result in a full speed jump lasting 1 or 2 secs, you won't go high but long, the speedy landing will help you get used to the sort of speed of a raley landing.

once you master this then a raley will be easy and you shall land it first time... The gay-ley is also good to do grabs, rolls in a safe fast manner and will improve your landings generally while increasing your reflexes, it's more like skate and snowboards jumps. If you **** up let go of the bar. no issue and as you don't go high it's pretty safe.

I hope this helps, it's a transition but will help you build confidence... In the end the raley is the **** and it's actually pretty easy if your reflexes are good.

EnglishCraig
NSW, 406 posts
16 Jan 2013 3:57PM
Thumbs Up

dafrog said...
stamp said...
Nuking said...


A raley needs speed and load hard on the edge with kite at 45. I recommend for your first unhooked move try the backroll. Moderate speed, kite high and scoop upwind (rather than load and pop) into the backroll. It's easier to follow the momentum and doesn't need as much commitment as a raley.



this is exactly why you should learn a raley first. your edge and release should be the same for all tricks. learning to do a proper raley will teach you how to pop with the board and not the kite. learning an unhooked backroll without commitment and kite high will only instil bad habits.

there is no shortcut to learning a raley. unlike back and front rolls, you can't do them hooked in to get the feeling because it's totally different. as rowdy says the power generated by your edge should yank you off the water and force your body to stretch out flat from your hnds right through to your legs. you can't replicate this hooked in.


Hmm I disagree somewhat with that, I think there is an intermediate step that will help getting the timing right: the Gay-ley... it's a hooked-in jump that replicates the raley while still being hooked.

Basically... tac hard and gather a fair bit of speed and try to have your bar half depowered like if you were going upwind normally but fast and edge hard into an oncoming chop and pop while keeping your kite where it is (halfway up in the window, the goal is distance not height) but getting the power fully in... this should result in a full speed jump lasting 1 or 2 secs, you won't go high but long, the speedy landing will help you get used to the sort of speed of a raley landing.

once you master this then a raley will be easy and you shall land it first time... The gay-ley is also good to do grabs, rolls in a safe fast manner and will improve your landings generally while increasing your reflexes, it's more like skate and snowboards jumps. If you **** up let go of the bar. no issue and as you don't go high it's pretty safe.

I hope this helps, it's a transition but will help you build confidence... In the end the raley is the **** and it's actually pretty easy if your reflexes are good.


Totally agree I spent maybe 2 hours doing the hooked in version, learning how much I needed to bear away, how aggressive the final edging needs to be and springing off my heels to generate the pop.... Without Crashing my kite on every attempt.

That said I agree with rowdy that the raley is the first unhooked trick u should learn, get that nailed and u have the basis for all the other clever and mind boggling stuff the good guys at the forefront of the sport are doing

Dawn Patrol
WA, 1991 posts
16 Jan 2013 2:25PM
Thumbs Up

Is a hooked in raley still called a gayley?

They just dont really work the same.

Cruising around unhooked for little periods also help learn about it. Getting the depower/trim right etc.

sir ROWDY
WA, 5353 posts
16 Jan 2013 2:51PM
Thumbs Up

You can't do a proper raley hooked in. And in my opinion it will only hinder you learning to do a proper one. As you take off hooked in and extend into the gayley you will almost certainly sheet out, making it an entirely different feeling. Not to mention you will be loading from your harness not your arms.

A proper raley isn't that hard to try with your kite up high. Just man up and give it a shot, what's the worst that will happen? It's just water.

harry potter
VIC, 2777 posts
16 Jan 2013 6:26PM
Thumbs Up

Its still fine for noobs to use the ghayley to practice load and pop.......

linguini
WA, 18 posts
16 Jan 2013 3:51PM
Thumbs Up

sir ROWDY said...
You can't do a proper raley hooked in. And in my opinion it will only hinder you learning to do a proper one. As you take off hooked in and extend into the gayley you will almost certainly sheet out, making it an entirely different feeling. Not to mention you will be loading from your harness not your arms.

A proper raley isn't that hard to try with your kite up high. Just man up and give it a shot, what's the worst that will happen? It's just water.



Agree with this, I've started trying unhooked tricks last season and have manged a few good flat water session this season. You won't learn heaps trying hooked in gayley's there's way to much of a difference in flying the kite hooked vs unhooked.
Just get out there and give it a go and if you can kite flat flat water it will make it heaps easier getting the feeling of when the edge and pop

dafrog
321 posts
16 Jan 2013 4:51PM
Thumbs Up

Dawn Patrol said...
Is a hooked in raley still called a gayley?

They just dont really work the same.

Cruising around unhooked for little periods also help learn about it. Getting the depower/trim right etc.


yep gayleys...

they work the same, only difference is that your arms are extended and there is more power in the proper form.

agreed unhooking at random times is good to get you confident to unhook and re-hook at will, comes handy for when you land your first raley.

Gayley is not supposed to replace the real thing but it helps getting into it and once mastered it also helps with other tricks, load, pop and landing it at speed...

jack5566
131 posts
16 Jan 2013 6:52PM
Thumbs Up

I am at about the same level as the original post. Can land the back roll hooked in every time but up hooked get scary. re the pop right foot forward left foot back I pop really well left forward right back it's like I need a disabled parking tick on my car. I really need reworking this...

jack5566
131 posts
16 Jan 2013 6:55PM
Thumbs Up

God sorry about the grammar in that last post. Not to self don't text after a few beers.

juicerider
WA, 790 posts
16 Jan 2013 7:09PM
Thumbs Up

Hi Jmart
Like Rowdy says the raley is where to start.
This is something I wrote last year in reply to a similar topic.
Maybe it will help if I regurgitate it again. Sorry to be boring if you already read it.

"Getting good pop is not just about the release, but the set up is equally important.
For the first few times start out on a kite that is not overpowered, but is just comfortable, towards the bottom of its wind range, but you dont want to have to work it.
Sail at the fastest point of sailing, just off the wind with the kite at 45 deg, (no higher or you cant edge so hard and it will feel dangly). Have both hands in the center of the bar next to the chicken loop.
Now beer off slightly more, to relieve the line tension and unhook. This also drops the kite further back into the window and gives you something to pull against. As soon as you've unhooked carve hard into wind and pull hard against the kite. As you do this the kite will also accelerate towards the edge of the window generating even more pull, push hard with both legs to spring off the water, letting you legs swing out behind you as you leave the water.
Look down at the water to spot your landing, and get your legs back under you to land going downwind towards the kite. The kite lines should be slack as you land, and you can hook back in again.
So what is important here is to get the kite to drift further into the window as you beer down wind to unhook and then pull hard against it to accelerate it back towards the edge again.
If it feels like you are dangling you are steering the kite up, try to pull more with your front hand to stop the kite moving. It should feel like you are weightless for a fraction of a second.
Once you have done this you are well on your way to unkooked unhooked kitesurfing."

Hope this helps
Juicerider

deXtrous
NSW, 451 posts
16 Jan 2013 11:49PM
Thumbs Up

oceanfire
WA, 718 posts
16 Jan 2013 9:10PM
Thumbs Up

juicerider said...
Hi Jmart
Like Rowdy says the raley is where to start.
This is something I wrote last year in reply to a similar topic.
Maybe it will help if I regurgitate it again. Sorry to be boring if you already read it.

"Getting good pop is not just about the release, but the set up is equally important.
For the first few times start out on a kite that is not overpowered, but is just comfortable, towards the bottom of its wind range, but you dont want to have to work it.
Sail at the fastest point of sailing, just off the wind with the kite at 45 deg, (no higher or you cant edge so hard and it will feel dangly). Have both hands in the center of the bar next to the chicken loop.
Now beer off slightly more, to relieve the line tension and unhook. This also drops the kite further back into the window and gives you something to pull against. As soon as you've unhooked carve hard into wind and pull hard against the kite. As you do this the kite will also accelerate towards the edge of the window generating even more pull, push hard with both legs to spring off the water, letting you legs swing out behind you as you leave the water.
Look down at the water to spot your landing, and get your legs back under you to land going downwind towards the kite. The kite lines should be slack as you land, and you can hook back in again.
So what is important here is to get the kite to drift further into the window as you beer down wind to unhook and then pull hard against it to accelerate it back towards the edge again.
If it feels like you are dangling you are steering the kite up, try to pull more with your front hand to stop the kite moving. It should feel like you are weightless for a fraction of a second.
Once you have done this you are well on your way to unkooked unhooked kitesurfing."

Hope this helps
Juicerider


This is one of the best explanations I've read.
Nice one
Though I usually wait to beer off for when I've finished for the sesh

juicerider
WA, 790 posts
16 Jan 2013 10:09PM
Thumbs Up

oceanfire said...

Though I usually wait to beer off for when I've finished for the sesh




LOL .yes good point that works too



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"Unhooking" started by Jmart