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Forums > Kitesurfing General

Why death-leashes are sh1t.

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Created by waveslave > 9 months ago, 24 Apr 2013
waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
24 Apr 2013 9:49PM
Thumbs Up

When you release a kite to it's leash,

you surrender control.

Totally.

You roll over, go belly-up and take a free ride.

The kite now controls you.

lol.

Upon releasing,

if for some reason the kite doesn't depower 100%,

you are freakin toast.

You know something, they often don't depower the kite 100%.

There might be twists or wraps in the lines, all kinds of stuff can screw up.

Death-drags kill people.

The INDUSTRY needs to think ...and improve ... and re-invent kite management.

JJB
QLD, 115 posts
24 Apr 2013 11:57PM
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cabrinha QR doesnt actually NEED a safety leash?

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
24 Apr 2013 10:03PM
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JJB said...
cabrinha QR doesnt actually NEED a safety leash?


That's refreshing to read. ^^^

Nice.

Chris6791
WA, 3271 posts
24 Apr 2013 10:10PM
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But the death leash is still there, just as a back-up to not actually needing it

Livit
WA, 542 posts
24 Apr 2013 10:11PM
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waveslave said...

When you release a kite to it's leash,

you surrender control.

Totally.

You roll over, go belly-up and take a free ride.

The kite now controls you.

lol.

Upon releasing,

if for some reason the kite doesn't depower 100%,

you are freakin toast.

You know something, they often don't depower the kite 100%.

There might be twists or wraps in the lines, all kinds of stuff can screw up.

Death-drags kill people.

The INDUSTRY needs to think ...and improve ... and re-invent kite management.


Kite rolled over, the release works the same unless you've got a fifth line.

You get some some twists, well learn how to use the swivel on your bar or maintain it if it's an automatic one.

They don't depower 100%, your safety must be connected on both center line so just swim quickly toward the kite and it should depower enough to do a self rescue.

Maybe what you need is a lesson

JJB
QLD, 115 posts
25 Apr 2013 12:39AM
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Chris6791 said...
But the death leash is still there, just as a back-up to not actually needing it


Not sure what angle your taking there.

But to put it straight, if i didn't unhook I wouldnt take a leash with me with my kite (cab chaos). Cab has made leashes redundant if your hooked in the whole time.

polykarb
VIC, 284 posts
25 Apr 2013 2:06AM
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Kiting without a leash?
Kind of like driving without seatbelt.

Maybe I'm confused?
Good kiters unhook.

Are you trying to say leashes are bad?

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
25 Apr 2013 12:16AM
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De ja vu
As for cabrinha's safety how does it go if a rear line is wrapped around a wingtip?
To me it's not a safety release but a depower system.

Hardcarve1
QLD, 550 posts
25 Apr 2013 6:56AM
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I totally agree, the idea of teaching learners that if you feel unsafe just pull the safety and throw the bar can put you in a uncontrolled zone. Activating a safety should be a last result.

kitingtopher
SA, 313 posts
25 Apr 2013 9:29AM
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better a leash than a long swim with kit(not kite.)

iandvnt
QLD, 581 posts
25 Apr 2013 10:21AM
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"Cab has made leashes redundant if your hooked in the whole time."

Tell that to the person i saw get a wing tip bridle hook up death loop and thrown 40foot onto their head with this kite. Also to those that release their kite if in the **** with 2 or 3 way tangle - no concern for the other rider at all with a safer one line release - although dont just release communicate with other rider if you can... Also the 1/2 hitched bar due to floppy leader lines that ends up deathlooping the rider so fast they struggled to get to suicide - especially if at back. you start hooked in like that , then you release, and guess what - your still being death looped by your suicide on your back so violently you cant get to it, teh half hitch, bridle tangle or line swivel knot tangle whatever... is still deathlooping you.

Things are better than they used to be but there is no excuse for not having a way to release the kite as safe as possible for others at risk- unfair otherwise

i think as time goes on riders do not realize about above because kite design safety has got better in some ways but on the other hand the bottom line is still the same.

robbyb
QLD, 20 posts
25 Apr 2013 10:33AM
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Twists in the lines when you release the safety is a big issue. Release your safety with twists and you have a kite at full power and no control over it.

I for one will not touch a kite line setup which has a 'Y' configuration for the front lines and safety connects to both front lines. F-one, North, Airush, Best, Cabrinha etc use this suicidal system. Plenty of good brands have it figured out though like Ozone, Naish, Slingshot and BWS.

juggler
VIC, 243 posts
25 Apr 2013 10:53AM
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Slingys Css system works

crakas
QLD, 453 posts
25 Apr 2013 12:04PM
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Isn't the idea of a leash to keep the kite connected to you so others don't get hurt while you participate in your chosen yet dangerous sport....

B

stabber
NSW, 1114 posts
25 Apr 2013 12:09PM
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This is an emotive topic(very unlike wavey to do).....shame it is gonna die a horrible death.

stabber
NSW, 1114 posts
25 Apr 2013 12:11PM
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see how I used the term of endearment ..."wavey"... in the last post. It kinda gives the reader the idea we may be friends of some kind....

Perfect example of how the internet and forums can be confusing.

JJB
QLD, 115 posts
25 Apr 2013 12:27PM
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I think at the end of the day it comes down to the fact that if you dont like something, then you have the freedom to design your own and solve the problem yourself.

Also if it all goes to ** you can always just undo your harness (waist) which I'm sure 99% of kiters wouldnt even think to do.

zarb
NSW, 645 posts
25 Apr 2013 12:39PM
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I think I would have a hard time undoing my harness in an emergency. I would have better luck reaching the safety leash release.

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
25 Apr 2013 10:58AM
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polykarb said...

Kiting without a leash?
Kind of like driving without seatbelt.



Are you trying to say leashes are bad?




Wrong analogy. ^^^

A seatbelt is designed to protect the user.

A kiteleash is an attempt to protect the innocent bystander ...by placing the user in jeopardy.

eppo
WA, 9579 posts
25 Apr 2013 11:16AM
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What about crew doing unhooked freestyle say in lightish winds at for instance the pond. No leash would be a pain the ass.

The other day my chicken loop come off all of a sudden and the bar was whipped from my hands. Had the leash on the suicide as normal. Quick line pull and up she went. No leash would have been swimming in a long way!

But I do see the dangers in using them just a risk benefit analyses really. But yeh lines crossed and kite in the water in high winds ready to launch unexpectedly ... Ouch. Don't think the answer is to have no leash though.

Poida
WA, 1916 posts
25 Apr 2013 11:30AM
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theres always the quick release on the death leash, to release the whole rig.
gotta be better to have the option rather than no leash and say kiters at south scarb releasing their kite after a wipeout to have kites on the loose being blown downwind through a crowded scarb beach.

junglist
VIC, 701 posts
25 Apr 2013 1:33PM
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On flat water freestyle it would be a nightmare not to have one.

In the surf they are literally lethal.

Why dont companies develop a more appropriate response with their so called 'Surf Style' kites?

Underoath
QLD, 2433 posts
25 Apr 2013 1:38PM
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Im lost,

I ride suicide on my fuels. (No IDS or the like)

If I found myself with lines wrapped, and a kite looping out of controll. I still have 4 release points.

1) chicken loop. Kite flags to one line.

If this were to fail and the kite continue to loop. See below

2) Safely leash has built in quick release.

If i were to have had my left arm dislocated and couldnt release???? See below

3) Harness quick release on the other side of my body.

If I was riding a BWS and didnt like the kite any more.

4) Kite knife.


suface2air
QLD, 701 posts
25 Apr 2013 1:49PM
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Might solve some part of the problem a small leash for the people that stay hooked in . Say about 300mm long and attachment piont on the chicken loop holder on the harness (no draging sideways or backwards) the leashs are a pain being like 500mm long smack ya in the legs grion area . It has a qr on it so when it dose go to s**t you release but at least you can get to it at the front of you .

Gorgo
VIC, 5041 posts
25 Apr 2013 1:58PM
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You need a leash as backup to the chicken loop. The loops do come off the hook. All the kites I have had the loop has accidentally come unhooked.

Fortunately it mostly happens in light conditions through pulling too hard on the bar and I can ride unhooked well enough to recover the situation. In the old days it meant chasing down a kite.

Separate to the leash issue, it is a bad practice to automatically release to the safety system at the first sign of a problem. As Mr Slave says it does remove any control you have and any chance of recovering the situation, or more importantly, stopping a bad situation becoming worse.

I have seen a couple of cases of kites tangling. The riders did not panic and release. In one case the a rider simply dived down under the other lines and was able to drag away. In the other case the riders self-landed their kites onto the water and washed ashore to untangle and continue.

JJB
QLD, 115 posts
25 Apr 2013 2:47PM
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The more this thread goes on the more confused I get.

I cant decide whether wave slave is trolling us or is stupid.

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
25 Apr 2013 1:04PM
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Poida said...
theres always the quick release on the death leash, to release the whole rig.



Yep,

The above option seems so logical, doesn't it ? ^^^

But in reality, folks don't release.

They think about it for too long.

They wait, and then wait some more before attempting to pull the QR on the death-leash.

Meanwhile precious seconds are ticking by.

So why do they delay, you ask ?

Cause they don't want to lose their $1500 kite.

lol.

Livit
WA, 542 posts
25 Apr 2013 1:45PM
Thumbs Up

suface2air said...
Might solve some part of the problem a small leash for the people that stay hooked in . Say about 300mm long and attachment piont on the chicken loop holder on the harness (no draging sideways or backwards) the leashs are a pain being like 500mm long smack ya in the legs grion area . It has a qr on it so when it dose go to s**t you release but at least you can get to it at the front of you .


Core has 2 leashes in their range, a freestyle one for those who unhook and a freeride/wave one for the rest of the crew, the 2nd one is much shorter and I believe the other brands should follow and let the customer choose.

Livit
WA, 542 posts
25 Apr 2013 1:46PM
Thumbs Up

eppo said...
What about crew doing unhooked freestyle say in lightish winds at for instance the pond. No leash would be a pain the ass.

The other day my chicken loop come off all of a sudden and the bar was whipped from my hands. Had the leash on the suicide as normal. Quick line pull and up she went. No leash would have been swimming in a long way!

But I do see the dangers in using them just a risk benefit analyses really. But yeh lines crossed and kite in the water in high winds ready to launch unexpectedly ... Ouch. Don't think the answer is to have no leash though.


You often say that you don't unhook, why do you connect suicide then?

eppo
WA, 9579 posts
25 Apr 2013 4:52PM
Thumbs Up

Livit said...
eppo said...
What about crew doing unhooked freestyle say in lightish winds at for instance the pond. No leash would be a pain the ass.

The other day my chicken loop come off all of a sudden and the bar was whipped from my hands. Had the leash on the suicide as normal. Quick line pull and up she went. No leash would have been swimming in a long way!

But I do see the dangers in using them just a risk benefit analyses really. But yeh lines crossed and kite in the water in high winds ready to launch unexpectedly ... Ouch. Don't think the answer is to have no leash though.


You often say that you don't unhook, why do you connect suicide then?




I do unhook sometimes when on the flat bit it's not pretty. Lol!! I ride the suicide for two reasons. One I can manually unspin my lines cause rarely is there a tack without one to three spins in the line and two like I mentioned before if the kite does come out of hands and I'm in the surf I want that kite to have a power in it for a quick relaunch. Because it is either relaunch or let the whole thing go by the leash as the option of hanging onto your flagged kite as the surf hits it is a big no no in my mind. But my kite only hits the water a couple do times a season. And before you think that's cause I'm a good kiter the real reason is I'm not pushing the envelope as much as some other crew. And those guys need a leash in my opinion.

Yeh we all know (well those that have been around a bit) that waveslave is not a fan of leashes but to me they are the best solution we have so far and to not have one creates greater potential for problems. Then again it could be argued that the one problem leashes can cause could be very serious for the kiter. I have never has probs with them so I will just keep on keeping on.

MDSXR6T
WA, 1019 posts
25 Apr 2013 8:59PM
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Livit said...Core has 2 leashes in their range, a freestyle one for those who unhook and a freeride/wave one for the rest of the crew, the 2nd one is much shorter and I believe the other brands should follow and let the customer choose.


From a noobs perspective the core short leash is great.

At first it was a bit ackward so i bought a longer one but i've reverted back after it annoying the crap out of me when body dragging.

After my kitemare early on i think having a leash thats short and in front of you is handy. I dont know, hower it could be hard to hit the leash safety when your being dragged backwards.



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"Why death-leashes are sh1t." started by waveslave