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Forums > Kitesurfing   Newbies / Tips & Tricks

WTF did i do wrong? beach launch

Reply
Created by MDSXR6T > 9 months ago, 30 Jan 2013
MDSXR6T
WA, 1019 posts
30 Jan 2013 10:15PM
Thumbs Up

In the process of learning i've made a few mistakes and at the time they don't always make sense but after i pack up, i'll sit and think about it and make sure it doesnt happen again but today has me confused (and sore) and i'm not sure what i did wrong.

Fortunately there was no one else on this beach and the wind was cross onshore (but a bit swirly and gusty).

I set the kite up and walk the lines out with the bar reversed etc. My girlfriend lifts the kite, i start to move around to (what i think at the time) is the right spot to stand (im between the water and kite so it would be around 5pm in the wind window) and as soon as i go to launch the kite flies around rapidly (with no bar input) to about 10 taking me with it and i hit the sand. I knew fighting to regain control was pointless so the safety release was turned (core sensor bar) and im left licking my wounds.

My launches have been pretty good with my instructor / mate but i'm not sure what happened today. Needless to say i dont plan on a repeat! I did notice when packing up straight afterwards so sections of sand were blowing cross offshore but only some parts.

Dave Whettingsteel
WA, 1397 posts
30 Jan 2013 10:25PM
Thumbs Up

Mate don't feel too bad. I've had a few similar near disasters launching and landing.

I think part of it is getting a feel for when the wind is ****ty, ie gusty changing direction etc

You learn to wait for the moment when you are really comfortable the wind is ok before letting your help let the kite go. Then it is ok.

I feel for you, having up a screw up when asking the gf for help is not good. It makes her feel like she has not been up to it.

The learning is hard, it's better to learn to self launch off of a bull bar, post whatever than your best mate

Airborne
WA, 224 posts
31 Jan 2013 10:51AM
Thumbs Up

Hi Mat

Its a bit hard to say for sure (without being there and seeing it happen) what caused your kite to behave like that.

A couple of pointers for you: If you are in the metro area and you find a beach that looks good for kiting but there is no other kiters there then you should probably be asking yourself why not.
Did you double check your lines where set up properly? after connecting your lines to the kite you need to walk back to the bar so why not hold both the back lines in your hands as you walk down to pick up the bar and make sure they connect directly to the ends of the bar and are not tangled.
Before you "start to move around to (what i think at the time) is the right spot to stand" try standing next to the wing tip, figuring out exactly where the wind is coming from and then mark a line at 90 degrees to the wind in the sand and walk out in that direction.
Personally i strongly recommend against learners self launching. I think it is a better idea to have someone that has 1/2 an idea give you a launch. Its not hard to teach the GF how the lines should look when it is set up correctly (outside lines to the back inside lines to the front). That way she can cast a second set of eyes over your kite when she gives you a launch.
Lastly i would have a quick chat to your instructor and get him to quickly explain the wind window and the terminology to you again. From reading your post it comes across as tho you might have your wires slightly crossed on the wind window concept.

Huge props on having the wits about you to activate your QR tho!!! I have seen many "experienced" kiters come a cropa and not have the smarts to do that.

Cheers
Damo

MDSXR6T
WA, 1019 posts
31 Jan 2013 11:39AM
Thumbs Up

Cheers lads,

I've genuinely been thinking about it, googling and re-watching progression all night and this morning so i pulled the kite out and had a look at all the rigging.

One bridle had a knot in it which affected the pulley and another line (same bridle) was free. Maybe it happened yesterday but i suspect i ****** up at this stage when setting up. It looked ok from a distance of 2 or 3 feet but up close i might have seen it.

Beach is a fav of mine about 2 hours out of perth, no one ever around.

Line in the sand is a great tip Damo! Pulling the QR was really a no brainer. Within the first second or 2 i knew i would be in serious trouble if i tried to fight it so that was easy enough. My second instructor was great but the first bloke i think missed teaching me a few things.

Haydn24
QLD, 473 posts
31 Jan 2013 9:04PM
Thumbs Up

I think having the kite at "5" was your issue as there is no "5 o'clock" in the wind window. To me sounds like you launched in the power zone or close to it, hence the quick take off. A launch at 9 or 3 should be slow and steady (not much wind filling the kite).

Cheers.

GD3D
WA, 21 posts
31 Jan 2013 9:25PM
Thumbs Up

Im no expert but the most important thing is the set up.
If your gear is not right and/or your lines are tangled your going to get flogged.
The modern kite is a very safe and predictable. Wind is also important. Not enough and the kite will not fly. Too much and it will power up outside of the power zone. Gusts,lulls etc are not good. It goes without saying that location is important. Powerlines, high hills, trees, buildings, etc are bad. Plan your escape.
When launching with a friend once your angle to the wind is right the kite should fly itself at the 3/9 position. Its then a case of raising the kite to 10/12 outside of the power zone like you were taught in lessons. You need to get the kite flying and in control asap.
If you are too far back the kite will stall and float back, too far forward and the kite will power up so getting the angle right is important.
Hope this helps but do be disheartend first few times is always the worst. Be Safe

Beanz
WA, 75 posts
31 Jan 2013 10:20PM
Thumbs Up

I always depower my kite for launching. If not enough after first try let some out and try again.

terminal
1421 posts
1 Feb 2013 12:51AM
Thumbs Up

There are many other things to get right and things you have to do if you are using someone who doesn't know how to launch a kite to help you so dont think that this video is supposed to be a complete answer.

You need to get someone who knows what they are doing to teach you how to avoid all the things that can go wrong with a launch.

Put the video on HD. The main thing this video shows is how to start downwind of the kite, take the slack out of the lines and walk upwind until the canopy of the kite has no loose areas, but the whole canopy material has now tightened up. As soon as that happens, take one more step upwind and stop. You are now at the right place to launch the kite.

BPBPerth
WA, 17 posts
1 Feb 2013 9:14AM
Thumbs Up

Terminal covered one of the key points that some don't follow:
"take the slack out of the lines and walk upwind until the canopy of the kite has no loose areas, but the whole canopy material has now tightened up. As soon as that happens, take one more step upwind and stop. You are now at the right place to launch the kite."

I have seen many attempting to launch standing too far downwind - kite canopy flogging a little and they give the thumbs up to launch. Result = the kite drifts back in the wind window and ends with mixed results, most not with the desired outcome. The kite will either fall back on to its wingtip or trailing edge and possibly roll backwards, panic sets in and a quick yank on the bar to try correct it ends in carnage.

Standing too far upwind of the kite on launch is just as dangerous. Result = the kite is launched in or close to the powerzone, depending on experience this could also have a bad outcome.

My advice is to always take your time before launching. Double check things like inflation pressure (too many under inflate). Make sure all lines are correctly attached (not crossed over each other or fed through the bridle, no knots in line). If you have pulleys on the bridle make sure they are functioning and free running. Once you have checked everything take your time to make sure you are positioned correctly in relation to the wind window (as described above) before giving the thumbs up to launch.

Gorgo
VIC, 5041 posts
1 Feb 2013 1:18PM
Thumbs Up

terminal said...
...

You need to get someone who knows what they are doing to teach you how to avoid all the things that can go wrong with a launch.

...


That is correct in principle, but what you really want to do is practice your kite flying enough so that you can cope with all the things that go wrong in launch (and any other time when the kite does something unexpected).

The vast majority of newbie kite accidents are caused by the kiter doing the wrong thing after something has happened. The usual mistake is the kiter hauling in the bar and powering up the out of control kite in the power zone.

There are two important principles to understand:

1. A kite will only have power if it has tension on the lines. Ease the tension and the power disappears. You ease the tension by stepping towards the kite and by pushing out the bar.

2. Once you have dealt with the original issue, applying tension to a single line will allow you to manipulate the kite to make make it safe.

Nine times out of ten the problem you are experiencing can be reduced by simply letting go of the bar.

Launching with the kite too far upwind is something you can practice in very light winds and it is easy to deal with. You can fly the kite out of it (by stalling the kite and running upwind, or looping the kite), or you can let the depowered kite roll downwind where you can relaunch it normally. Once the kite has stabilised downwind you can easily walk yourself to the side of window relaunch position then launch it from there.

eibwen
WA, 116 posts
1 Feb 2013 10:48AM
Thumbs Up

If your flying a core kite (you said core ESP bar), you might of by accident connected one of your steering lines to a different knot than the other one which would induce steering input with out doing so if you know what I mean.

Or got a line caught up in the mini loop hook ?

KiteBud
WA, 1564 posts
1 Feb 2013 11:15AM
Thumbs Up

Gorgo said...
terminal said...
...

You need to get someone who knows what they are doing to teach you how to avoid all the things that can go wrong with a launch.

...


That is correct in principle, but what you really want to do is practice your kite flying enough so that you can cope with all the things that go wrong in launch (and any other time when the kite does something unexpected).

The vast majority of newbie kite accidents are caused by the kiter doing the wrong thing after something has happened. The usual mistake is the kiter hauling in the bar and powering up the out of control kite in the power zone.

There are two important principles to understand:

1. A kite will only have power if it has tension on the lines. Ease the tension and the power disappears. You ease the tension by stepping towards the kite and by pushing out the bar.

2. Once you have dealt with the original issue, applying tension to a single line will allow you to manipulate the kite to make make it safe.

Nine times out of ten the problem you are experiencing can be reduced by simply letting go of the bar.

Launching with the kite too far upwind is something you can practice in very light winds and it is easy to deal with. You can fly the kite out of it (by stalling the kite and running upwind, or looping the kite), or you can let the depowered kite roll downwind where you can relaunch it normally. Once the kite has stabilised downwind you can easily walk yourself to the side of window relaunch position then launch it from there.



Very good post. The video showed above fails to address the most important problems with assisted launches. The kiter should always try to launch the kite with the least amount of power imput from the bar. The number one problem being that people pull the bar ALL THE WAY IN without realizing it, then give the thumbs up. Kite then screams into the power zone, kiter gets dragged, etc.

The other main problem comes from people rigging their lines upwind and choosing an overpowered angle of launch i.e. putting tension on the lines without being downwind enough. Person holding the kite gets dragged...and may let go of the overpowered kite, which then results in a an overpowered launch...not to mention you pi$$ed off the person holding your kite in the process.

The safest way to perform an assisted launch is: Rigging the lines downwind and walk slowly upwind in a circle without touching the bar and keeping constant and minimum tension in the front lines from the chicken loop until the kite stops flapping and fills up with wind. Stop walking upwind, then grab the bar and seek for the sweet spot on the bar with the minimum amount of power and steering to feel the kite gently wanting to go up while the assistant is still holding the kite (and is not struggling to do so). Then and only then, give thumbs up and bring kite up slowly.

If the kite is overpowered and you and your assistant are getting dragged, quickly push the bar away and walk downwind and start over again slowly.

MDSXR6T
WA, 1019 posts
1 Feb 2013 11:33AM
Thumbs Up

Thanks for the input lads!

I actually let go of the bar straight away as the kite whipped up and it still had enough power to drag 120kgs so thats when i pulled the QR. Eibwen, you might be spot on?

Either way i was thinking of hitting up AKS or another NOR school (are there any?) for another lesson just so its not in the back of my mind causing even that little bit of doubt next time i launch!

terminal
1421 posts
1 Feb 2013 7:32PM
Thumbs Up

Gorgo said...
terminal said...
...

You need to get someone who knows what they are doing to teach you how to avoid all the things that can go wrong with a launch.

...


That is correct in principle, but what you really want to do is practice your kite flying enough so that you can cope with all the things that go wrong in launch (and any other time when the kite does something unexpected).

The vast majority of newbie kite accidents are caused by the kiter doing the wrong thing after something has happened. The usual mistake is the kiter hauling in the bar and powering up the out of control kite in the power zone.

There are two important principles to understand:

1. A kite will only have power if it has tension on the lines. Ease the tension and the power disappears. You ease the tension by stepping towards the kite and by pushing out the bar.

2. Once you have dealt with the original issue, applying tension to a single line will allow you to manipulate the kite to make make it safe.

Nine times out of ten the problem you are experiencing can be reduced by simply letting go of the bar.

Launching with the kite too far upwind is something you can practice in very light winds and it is easy to deal with. You can fly the kite out of it (by stalling the kite and running upwind, or looping the kite), or you can let the depowered kite roll downwind where you can relaunch it normally. Once the kite has stabilised downwind you can easily walk yourself to the side of window relaunch position then launch it from there.


When something goes wrong at the launch, it may be recoverable, but something shouldn't have gone wrong.
Reacting will probably be based on what a kite would do if everything is working right.
Clearly something isn't working right, so if a line is connected wrongly, a pulley is jammed, a line has snagged etc. trying to sort it out can be the wrong thing to do.
For an inexperienced kiter, I would think its definately the wrong thing to do - they should be reaching for the Q/R while letting go of the bar and if letting go of the bar doesn't sort things, activate the Q/R.

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
6 Feb 2013 10:01AM
Thumbs Up

Yeah, just to say, as a relative newbie myself, it takes time to find the sweet spot on where/when to let go. Sometimes in light winds, you want the kite further downwind, other times, you want it at the edge of the window.

In my experience (and I'm not recommending here) but you know roughly when it's in the right space when the trailing edge of the kite goes taught (stops flapping) and the lines look nice and straight. Also your assistant may change their stance to help resist the newly powered up kite.

cutch
WA, 67 posts
6 Feb 2013 8:16AM
Thumbs Up

Make sure you stand in the right spot as per all the above. Launch the kite on the beach the same as you relaunch in the water - bar pushed all the way out & just pull gently on one steering line. It will just float up into the air. Only grab the bar once it's at 45 degrees.

Kazan
QLD, 699 posts
11 Mar 2013 10:29AM
Thumbs Up

The worst thing is people pushing the kite into the wind window without my giving them the thumbs up!!! Just because THEY see the kite has stopped flapping, they release the kite or worse - push it into the power zone! I had to tell off two guys that did this over the weekend. It is very dangerous.

puppetonastring
WA, 3619 posts
11 Mar 2013 2:06PM
Thumbs Up

Airborne said...
Hi Mat............
Lots of good stuff.......
Cheers
Damo


Nice reply Damo.
Do you give lessons on tact & diplomacy

Repeat of all good advice here in summary.
- check & check & recheck & recheck line setup
- trim to full depower & bar out till launch time
- lines tight while walking upwind until kite fills
- if at all uncertain (gusty) hold for while to check kite is stable from that spot
Covers 95%+ of possible problems.

Not relevant to this incident but valuable...
One thing we bash home in our lessons is to tell your launcher not to release the kite till they get clear eye contact with a definite 👍 from above head height.
I've seen more botched launches, by far, from launch buddies releasing too soon. Usually because of a signal from the kiter which was meant to be a "hold on a minute" message.
Clear thumbs up everytime.

And to all newbies - you MUST know & remember:
"the most dangerous place to fly your kite is on the beach"
Don't do it. It achieves nothing.

Kazan
QLD, 699 posts
11 Mar 2013 9:26PM
Thumbs Up

puppetonastring said...
And to all newbies - you MUST know & remember:
"the most dangerous place to fly your kite is on the beach"
Don't do it. It achieves nothing.


So do you suggest we launch at home? WT!?

SaltySinus
VIC, 960 posts
11 Mar 2013 11:50PM
Thumbs Up

Hey MDS,

there's some good advice on here already.

In short, ensure your trusty helper understands that she/he should only let go of the kite when you give her/him the thumb(s) up, and also ensure she/he understands the signal from you that would mean 'put it down, there is something wrong'.

You understand where you are in relation to the kite that means you're down wind of the kite and also up wind. My advice is to get your lines taught earlier as you're moving round to the launch position. That way your kite has shape and you'll know when you're about right as the rear of the kite will stop flapping and become taught also, i.e. it's catching the wind and is getting ready to fly.

You should dial in the power by moving round slowly so that when you give the thumbs up, it should gently rise, rather than be some sort of rapid launch into the power zone.

Just practice champ and try and get a kiteboard vs. the ms. to launch you if you can, at least until you get experienced enough you can compensate for any none perfect support.

Good luck.

Warehouse13
NSW, 185 posts
12 Mar 2013 7:44AM
Thumbs Up

I am only VERY new to the sport but felt like adding my 2 cents

cbulota said...
The safest way to perform an assisted launch is: Rigging the lines downwind and walk slowly upwind in a circle without touching the bar and keeping constant and minimum tension in the front lines from the chicken loop until the kite stops flapping and fills up with wind. Stop walking upwind, then grab the bar and seek for the sweet spot on the bar with the minimum amount of power and steering to feel the kite gently wanting to go up while the assistant is still holding the kite (and is not struggling to do so). Then and only then, give thumbs up and bring kite up slowly.

If the kite is overpowered and you and your assistant are getting dragged, quickly push the bar away and walk downwind and start over again slowly.


After a fair bit of time on a trainer, I had my first proper lesson last friday and this was exactly how my instructor taught me. Being the first time flying "proper" kites I was quite nervous, but using this technique I never once felt like I was not in control of the kite or the situation. From the moment you lay your lines out to when you get in the water, if you take your time and stick to this routine/method, as a beginner you will really limit any issues that can arise during launching. And of course don't launch until you are 100% ready to get in the water, if you want to fly on the beach, move downwind and put a trainer kite up

puppetonastring said...
And to all newbies - you MUST know & remember:
"the most dangerous place to fly your kite is on the beach"
Don't do it. It achieves nothing.


I could not agree more with this and think it can not be repeated enough. I have been watching so many kite sessions at local spots where even I as a complete noob have noticed a lot of very lucky near misses or worse that are the result of someone just not using common sense, being 100% ready to go before launch, being a hero and showing off to their girl/friends etc.

Your kite is designed for use on the water not land, if you want to fly on land get a trainer or similar

Lots of great info in this thread for sure, good work guys

Kazan
QLD, 699 posts
14 Mar 2013 3:49PM
Thumbs Up

Warehouse13 said...
puppetonastring said...
And to all newbies - you MUST know & remember:
"the most dangerous place to fly your kite is on the beach"
Don't do it. It achieves nothing.


I could not agree more with this and think it can not be repeated enough. I have been watching so many kite sessions at local spots where even I as a complete noob have noticed a lot of very lucky near misses or worse that are the result of someone just not using common sense, being 100% ready to go before launch, being a hero and showing off to their girl/friends etc.

Your kite is designed for use on the water not land, if you want to fly on land get a trainer or similar

Lots of great info in this thread for sure, good work guys


I understand now where Puppet was coming from. But you've got to also remember that just being in the water is also not as safe if it's only three inches deep! A beginner needs to go way back - almost chest deep and simply practice kite surfing, unless you're practicing body dragging, self rescue or something.

My basic rule of thumb is, am I 400% confident this kite is rigged up correctly and am I in the right place at the right time? Yes, then launch kite. Else... do not launch! simple really.

Warehouse13
NSW, 185 posts
14 Mar 2013 7:57PM
Thumbs Up

Kazan said...
Warehouse13 said...
puppetonastring said...
And to all newbies - you MUST know & remember:
"the most dangerous place to fly your kite is on the beach"
Don't do it. It achieves nothing.


I could not agree more with this and think it can not be repeated enough. I have been watching so many kite sessions at local spots where even I as a complete noob have noticed a lot of very lucky near misses or worse that are the result of someone just not using common sense, being 100% ready to go before launch, being a hero and showing off to their girl/friends etc.

Your kite is designed for use on the water not land, if you want to fly on land get a trainer or similar

Lots of great info in this thread for sure, good work guys


I understand now where Puppet was coming from. But you've got to also remember that just being in the water is also not as safe if it's only three inches deep! A beginner needs to go way back - almost chest deep and simply practice kite surfing, unless you're practicing body dragging, self rescue or something.

My basic rule of thumb is, am I 400% confident this kite is rigged up correctly and am I in the right place at the right time? Yes, then launch kite. Else... do not launch! simple really.


Yeah agree 100% mate, as far as I am concerned, 3 inches of water is still on the beach, if you can still stand you are obviously not deep enough. Pretty sure that's where a little bit of common sense should come in though

As you said if you're not 400% happy with everything, don't launch, bit of commonsense goes a long way

koshi
SA, 202 posts
14 Mar 2013 8:55PM
Thumbs Up

Hey MDS, you have a good girlfriend to come out and help, thats luv for ya, (i need one) anyhoo next time she helps, if theres room for her to move, get her to move upwind or downwind until she can feel that the kite will just sit or bob on its wing tip with little support from her (not totally letting go though) this is the spot to launch, (also the spot to self launch tethered if needs be.) Go girlfriend!

MDSXR6T
WA, 1019 posts
14 Mar 2013 6:45PM
Thumbs Up

Shes pretty good value really

I still dont know exactly what went wrong that day but launching / landing has been all good since!

The spot i kite has a self tether that one of the blokes taught me to use so thats been handy as well

koshi
SA, 202 posts
14 Mar 2013 9:30PM
Thumbs Up

Tethered launches can be very handy, i use it all the time, many people dont agree, but if your kite is comfortably sitting or bobbing happily on its wingtip, then you can walk back to your bar take your time connecting and preparing for launch, BUT DO KNOW WHERE AND HOW TO USE YOUR SAFETY. Its tricky in higher winds to pull the chicky loop off the tether and move on to your harness hook, but that process is not changing any dynamics of the lines or kite (minimal movement) so kite is still in position for launch. continue launch as described above. It hasnt been all perfect for me after learning a valuable lesson when i pulled the bar in a little because the kite lifted off the ground and then just sat there about 2 metres off the ground, so i thought i could encourage the kite to rise up to 12 oclock, but neh neh, i was rag dolled into some bushes where people did number 2s pooh! "As above DO NOT TOUCH THE BAR EXCEPT FOR STEERING! My 2c worth.



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"WTF did i do wrong? beach launch" started by MDSXR6T