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self launch and power window advice PLEASE

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Created by mort69 > 9 months ago, 20 Nov 2011
mort69
WA, 178 posts
20 Nov 2011 8:37PM
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im pretty sure ive got the window wrong but when i self launch in 20 kn winds i get dragged down the beach, a bit like bull riding,and when i get the kite up and im riding but i cant keep the power going ,the kite is either @12 with no power or down low with no power,the only time im moving is when the kite is powering through the range,but its pretty radical to keep it going cheers

rickwindt
WA, 245 posts
20 Nov 2011 11:14PM
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mort69 said...

im pretty sure ive got the window wrong but when i self launch in 20 kn winds i get dragged down the beach, a bit like bull riding,and when i get the kite up and im riding but i cant keep the power going ,the kite is either @12 with no power or down low with no power,the only time im moving is when the kite is powering through the range,but its pretty radical to keep it going cheers


I only just started but I do know what to do here... once ur up on the board keep on working g the kite up and down to keep generating power. Not too high or u will stall. Lean hard on ur back foot to put the 'brake' on and to go more upwind. Lean more on the front to gain speed going g down wind. Gain speed before you lean hard on your back leg..

Learned all this today haha so correct me if I'm wrong.

acc
7 posts
21 Nov 2011 2:11AM
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mort69 said...

im pretty sure ive got the window wrong but when i self launch in 20 kn winds i get dragged down the beach, a bit like bull riding,and when i get the kite up and im riding but i cant keep the power going ,the kite is either @12 with no power or down low with no power,the only time im moving is when the kite is powering through the range,but its pretty radical to keep it going cheers


What size kite do you have how much do you weigh and what size board?

The wind should pretty much always be to your back. When the kite is almost straight to your left or right (with your back to the wind) then there wont be any power because that is the edge of the window. Most likely you are parking the kite to close to the edge of the window. If you sin the kite straight in front of you that will most likely be too much power. The perfect spot will be somewhere between the edge of the window and the center of the window. You can tell which way the wind is blowing by looking at the leading edge of the kite when it is parked in the air. It will always be facing straight into the wind.

It is easy to get confused as to where the wind is coming from and exactly where to sin the kite. Orient your board perpendicular to the wind and then sin your kite relative to that position.

BurkeyBoy
QLD, 549 posts
21 Nov 2011 9:07AM
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mort69 said...

im pretty sure ive got the window wrong but when i self launch in 20 kn winds i get dragged down the beach, a bit like bull riding,and when i get the kite up and im riding but i cant keep the power going ,the kite is either @12 with no power or down low with no power,the only time im moving is when the kite is powering through the range,but its pretty radical to keep it going cheers


Mate, if possible, don't be self launching in 20 knts until your reasonably experienced. If you have to, try and and be more side on to the kite in the window, rather than having the kite downwind from you when you launch. If it's downwind too much and you pull that top line to get the kite to launch, there's too much wind filling the kite causing it to go straight up with lots of power. This is known as a "hot launch" and not good for beginners in 20 knts. Get a set of self launchers. Easy to make, just do a search for instructions.
You won't go anywhere when on a board and your kite is at 12, just up if you move it there too quickly Find the sweet spot where your kite flys nicely without having to work it too much if the wind is good. This can change each time you go out depending on wind strength. Don't choke the kite by barring in too much when the kite is near the water. This will feel like a lack of power, but it's not, just bar out and let the kite fill.

bene313
WA, 1347 posts
21 Nov 2011 8:51AM
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I drew a pretty picture for you.



Subculture
443 posts
21 Nov 2011 9:00AM
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mort69 said...

im pretty sure ive got the window wrong but when i self launch in 20 kn winds i get dragged down the beach, a bit like bull riding,and when i get the kite up and im riding but i cant keep the power going ,the kite is either @12 with no power or down low with no power,the only time im moving is when the kite is powering through the range,but its pretty radical to keep it going cheers


In another thread on the newbie forum, you gave someone this advice - "shop around for a saftey lesson,60$ very good" - You'd be rightfully told by a lot of people with a lot of experience, not to give out advice on saving money on lessons. Most sensible and considerate people get at least the 3 IKO recomended lessons.

Reading your post sounds like you've not invested a lot of money on your own safety OR people around you... "i get dragged down the beach, a bit like bull riding," Doesn't sound like you got much out of your safety lesson, does it?

If you're all about saving cash and don't care if newbies can't learn on beaches in future because we've been banned off them, at least spend some of your money on the Progression beginner DVD



rickwindt
WA, 245 posts
21 Nov 2011 9:29AM
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Subculture said...

mort69 said...

im pretty sure ive got the window wrong but when i self launch in 20 kn winds i get dragged down the beach, a bit like bull riding,and when i get the kite up and im riding but i cant keep the power going ,the kite is either @12 with no power or down low with no power,the only time im moving is when the kite is powering through the range,but its pretty radical to keep it going cheers


In another thread on the newbie forum, you gave someone this advice - "shop around for a saftey lesson,60$ very good" - You'd be rightfully told by a lot of people with a lot of experience, not to give out advice on saving money on lessons. Most sensible and considerate people get at least the 3 IKO recomended lessons.

Reading your post sounds like you've not invested a lot of money on your own safety OR people around you... "i get dragged down the beach, a bit like bull riding," Doesn't sound like you got much out of your safety lesson, does it?

If you're all about saving cash and don't care if newbies can't learn on beaches in future because we've been banned off them, at least spend some of your money on the Progression beginner DVD






Or if u don't want to pay for the DVD either... isohunt has it as well

mort69
WA, 178 posts
21 Nov 2011 10:20PM
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@subculture,yes your correct i am a tight arse but i did pay 200 dollars for a lesson .with my wake boarding back ground i was able to get riding at end of lesson. with the advice from the instructor ,you should be good to practice on your own but dont get over confident,good advice.how ever they failed to show me how to self launch as id told her id had the kite up on an oval a few times,but only in light winds,with no one in sight to injure.but add a little bit more wind and yes things go wrong,my beach is almost deserted and i have since found pro lesson via kite shop for 60$,far more reasonable than 120 per hr,no wonder people skip them,but thanks for the dvd advice however your condasending downer tone was a bit much,lighten up we got to start somewhere **** happens especialy with people who think they can do any thing (me)theres plenty of warning signs but they come with every thing these days,i did as much reaserch as possible before a lesson,mabye you should have to sit exam and be licenced before you go on public beaches,im surprised its not illegal,very dangerous sport for beginers,but thats the problem,everyone must be a beginer at some stage.a pro sold me a 12m for my first kite mabye thats a bit big. to everyone who posted thank heaps good to get advice from someone whos done it before.

dave......
WA, 2119 posts
21 Nov 2011 11:31PM
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Dude, with all due respect, I PMd you, for a full lesson for a carton of beer, you are ignorant, 95% of kitesurfing if about controlling the kite, with one hand, you are a danger to others and future access to the beaches we are are allowed to use. your learning progress will be super long and you will be a danger to anyone that is close to you. Being a beginner you have no idea and are ognorant. good luck. The warm social feeling of a competant learner wont happen. Learn the hard way as I did in 2003 with kites that will bust you up. your going to bust someone else up. Prepare for the consequences.

mort69
WA, 178 posts
22 Nov 2011 4:21AM
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thanks for the repy dave i havent worked out the thread thing so i couldnt give you a direct reply i did try.thanks for your generous offer much appriciated,i found out today a guy who works for me has kited for 4yrs and will take me out in coming days.as to your comments of ignorant and arrogant,your out of line,im not interested in the warm social feeling or what ever i have other agendas.sorry for causing you experienced riders grief i understand how annoying it can be for the inexperienced coming into your world but try to show a bit of patiece and support and you might have a better chance of protecing your sport. no disrespect intended.

austin
671 posts
22 Nov 2011 11:15AM
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you can improvise a tethere'd self launch off of a post on the beachif you rig up your leash to ride 'suicide' then change back once launch'd. same basic principle as a towbar launch......probally too much for this stage however

KIT33R
NSW, 1714 posts
22 Nov 2011 4:13PM
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austin said...

you can improvise a tethere'd self launch off of a post on the beachif you rig up your leash to ride 'suicide' then change back once launch'd. same basic principle as a towbar launch......probally too much for this stage however


I tried the towbar launch (log on the beach) for the first time, out of curiosity, last week. Worked fine and not too hard to learn I reckon. I'll do it again when there is a lot of rubbish on the beach that could snag a standard self launch.

Details: Set up your kite as normal. Secure your chickenloop or safety line to an immovable object like a towbar, kitebag full of sand, fence post. Walk up to the kite and launch it like you would for a fellow kiter except you let the kite set at the wind window just bobbing up and down on its wing tip. Run back to the bar, connect safety to flagging line and connect chicken loop, launch kite.

Before you try this, I suggest getting the feel of a kite sitting on the sand with no hands on the bar. It's pretty stable though in too light wind the kite may fall over or fall back.

dave......
WA, 2119 posts
22 Nov 2011 7:40PM
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mort69 said...

thanks for the repy dave i havent worked out the thread thing so i couldnt give you a direct reply i did try.thanks for your generous offer much appriciated,i found out today a guy who works for me has kited for 4yrs and will take me out in coming days.as to your comments of ignorant and arrogant,your out of line,im not interested in the warm social feeling or what ever i have other agendas.sorry for causing you experienced riders grief i understand how annoying it can be for the inexperienced coming into your world but try to show a bit of patiece and support and you might have a better chance of protecing your sport. no disrespect intended.


Cheers dude for your nice reply, Discovery lessons take a long time, an I hope your mate has done at least his IKO course, otherwise he might not know the proper procedure for teaching a dangerous and competency based sport, I taught myself back in 2003 with windsurfing, wake boarding, surfing and I was a national underage sailor, no one else was around so The only injuries I could do was to myself, It was a long learning curve. Kitesurfing is not just about learning as sometimes things go wrong and your mates that love the sport will save your arse and your $2000 kit, if they do beers on the beach after a great day is just how it goes. I wish you all the best with such a great sport which I want to keep access to, look at jetskis in Perth, if we dont give a crap, it will be regulation, after regulation. Sorry for being so arrogant to a newbie, who doesnt know haow to PM. Its a big learning curve.

Peterc150
VIC, 710 posts
23 Nov 2011 12:23AM
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mort69, some information on:

* wind window (& power) kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/wind/wind-window

* self launching kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/progression/self-launching-your-kite

Once launched, it sounds like you are bringing your kite to the edge of the wind window where it has little power - both above you and horizontal.

Self launching is an intermediate skill and should only be attempted when you have some experience handling the kite. Maybe after 30+ sessions, and then with some instruction.

mort69
WA, 178 posts
4 Dec 2011 9:12PM
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to any one who wants to know what i was doing wrong was letting the bar out to de power position after i got moving,now i keep the bar at about half and the power stays on and i stay on my feet,and i was launching the kite direcly down wind,oops,was ok when there wasnt much wind.

rickwindt
WA, 245 posts
4 Dec 2011 9:50PM
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mort69 said...

to any one who wants to know what i was doing wrong was letting the bar out to de power position after i got moving,now i keep the bar at about half and the power stays on and i stay on my feet,and i was launching the kite direcly down wind,oops,was ok when there wasnt much wind.


wow mate haha scary stuff! always launch with your kite on the edge of the window hey. Don't want to end up hanging of a tree have you booked in some lessons buddy?

puppetonastring
WA, 3619 posts
11 Dec 2011 1:37AM
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For a self confessed tight arse you will probably hate hearing that you have totally wasted $200 on your single lesson.
I would front the instructor and demand my money back.
And while ur about do us all a favour. Tell him/her to stop robbing people, seriously endangering people and threatening our sport. All at the same time.
Any instructor offering & delivering lessons like you paid for is morally, ethically and responsibly bankrupt.

Peterc150
VIC, 710 posts
11 Dec 2011 3:56PM
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The general consensus seems to be self launching & self landing are advanced skills rather than intermediate. So I reckon this is 30+ sessions.

bene313
WA, 1347 posts
11 Dec 2011 7:10PM
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^^^ disagree Peter. Self launch/land are basic and easy kite skills which should come before board skills.

Mister Dugong
368 posts
11 Dec 2011 8:58PM
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^^^^unless your a tool who tried to self launch directly downwind when a 30 second google search and 5 minutes research would have told said tool otherwise.
People just have no attention span.

puppetonastring
WA, 3619 posts
11 Dec 2011 11:22PM
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bene313 said...

^^^ disagree Peter. Self launch/land are basic and easy kite skills which should come before board skills.


Spot on bene313.
Not only basic and easy (well maybe not always easy) but also essential elements which ALL kiters should learn in the early stages of their lessons.
Apart from sometimes being essential they are both critical moves in kitings most dangerous location - on the beach. Everything that can, or must, happen on the beach should be core lesson material for all.
And it should be given enough emphasis to ensure students leave with these skills confidently under their harness.

mort69
WA, 178 posts
15 Dec 2011 10:52PM
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i now know how to launch,simple, but i couldt find any vids that were not confusing the cabrina one was best but the camera angle changes to much.how could somthing so easy be so hard to reserch

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
16 Dec 2011 9:36AM
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well I seem to be out of whack with most on here re self launching.
I don't teach a self launch since you shouldn't be kiting on your own particularly when learning. It amazes me when crew self launch when there is half a dozen kiters standing right there and their kite slides down wind very often with people down wind. The other thing is unless you have a manicured beach eventually you will damage your kite.

hamburglar
ACT, 2174 posts
16 Dec 2011 6:52PM
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bene313 said...

^^^ disagree Peter. Self launch/land are basic and easy kite skills which should come before board skills.


^^^+1 its common sence


don't always have crew at hand so is a must know

bene313
WA, 1347 posts
16 Dec 2011 4:40PM
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^^^ are you serious?

What if there is shorebreak?

What if it is 25kn? The wind will turn the kite around and off it goes...

mort69
WA, 178 posts
18 Dec 2011 3:50PM
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i didnt know any one who kited when i started so i was as green as it gets,this is not the only sport i do,but there is a lot of negative energy when it comes to newbs,when i see somone about to get in trouble ill help as long as its wanted ,but to be critical and offer nothing but condasending ramble is a fast track to having this sport end up where you self rightious majority say it will,so try being proactive,newbs will always be in the way so change your attitude toward them or loose.i dont care how ****ing good you are if you cant stand learners get a new sport

Saffer
VIC, 4501 posts
20 Dec 2011 12:26AM
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mort69 said...

i didnt know any one who kited when i started so i was as green as it gets,this is not the only sport i do,but there is a lot of negative energy when it comes to newbs,when i see somone about to get in trouble ill help as long as its wanted ,but to be critical and offer nothing but condasending ramble is a fast track to having this sport end up where you self rightious majority say it will,so try being proactive,newbs will always be in the way so change your attitude toward them or loose.i dont care how ****ing good you are if you cant stand learners get a new sport


This is not about hating learners, its about protecting the existing riders and the public using the beaches. If you launch and don't have a clue what you do, you're a danger to people around you, kiters and non-kiters. Most people here couldn't give a rats ass if you injure yourself. What they do care about it that you don't injure someone else or some kid on the beach who is innocently building a sandcastle.

Catch a wake up and stop thinking about yourself! You may be a tight ass, but the public deserve better than to have some reckless individual endangering their lives because he thinks he's too good to have lessons because he had a wake boarding background. A wake boarding background doesn't teach you to fly a kite. This has nothing to do with you or an inherent hatred for beginners, it has to do with people who go out, start the sport, endanger the public, destroy our access to the beaches and expose us to potential bans. The moment you realise that, you'd realise the guys weren't trying to do you a favour for a warm and fuzzy feeling, they were trying to protect you from yourself.

And this is the polite version...

harry potter
VIC, 2777 posts
20 Dec 2011 5:42PM
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bene313 said...

^^^ disagree Peter. Self launch/land are basic and easy kite skills which should come before board skills.


negative.......

I agree with Peter...self launch and landing is not for beginners at all........ in order to self launch and land safely you have to have a very good understanding of wind directions, wind deflections and the physics of your kite.... launching and landing are the most risky proceedures when kiting ...both are performed on land close to solid objects ..... one cluck up and you can be fckd up.

Beginners attempting self launch and landing are only going to get your local area under the spotlight....kites in trees, powerlines, over the road, people being dragged etc..... all lead to issues...
If you are a beginner get someone to launch and land you.

When you are proficient enough to kite totally on your own ( ie no-one around at all then you should learn to self launch and land ideally with at least 1-2 seasons under your belt and a thorough understanding of the wind and how your kite will react.

Saffer
VIC, 4501 posts
20 Dec 2011 7:48PM
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harry potter said...

bene313 said...

^^^ disagree Peter. Self launch/land are basic and easy kite skills which should come before board skills.


negative.......

I agree with Peter...self launch and landing is not for beginners at all........ in order to self launch and land safely you have to have a very good understanding of wind directions, wind deflections and the physics of your kite.... launching and landing are the most risky proceedures when kiting ...both are performed on land close to solid objects ..... one cluck up and you can be fckd up.

Beginners attempting self launch and landing are only going to get your local area under the spotlight....kites in trees, powerlines, over the road, people being dragged etc..... all lead to issues...
If you are a beginner get someone to launch and land you.

When you are proficient enough to kite totally on your own ( ie no-one around at all then you should learn to self launch and land ideally with at least 1-2 seasons under your belt and a thorough understanding of the wind and how your kite will react.


Totally agree with what you wrote here



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"self launch and power window advice PLEASE" started by mort69