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Forums > Kitesurfing Victoria

Sponsored Kiters on St Kilda Main Beach

Reply
Created by vipar > 9 months ago, 14 Jan 2010
vipar
VIC, 16 posts
14 Jan 2010 1:37PM
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Riding home along the St Kilda foreshore last night there were three kiters flying south of the pier very close to the beach.

When I got closer I could see their kites had "St Kilda Sea Baths" emblazoned on them.

I understand that this area is a no go zone for us kiters. Does anyone know if this got approval from City of Port Phillip? From KBV?

If it did get approval then I think it was a wrong decision, the rules are there to keep ourselves and others safe while we enjoy our sport.
Just because these riders were asked to (and maybe getting paid) ride in front of the main beach does not make them any less likely to cause injury to someone swimming or walking along the promenade.

If it was not approved then it is irresponsible of the riders to agree to do it in the first place.

There is good exposure (I imagine the nationals during St Kilda fest will be an example) and bad exposure, in my opinion this event was definitely the latter.

Beersy
TAS, 753 posts
14 Jan 2010 3:04PM
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I think I saw lessons being taught with a St Kilda Sea Baths last week sometime...
May be mistaken though...

craggers
WA, 475 posts
14 Jan 2010 2:53PM
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i was actually sitting in the restaurant, annoyed at what i was seeing.

how many forums and posts on here go on about our code of responsibility, and respect for other beach users, and keeping out of the way in order to avoid regulation??

now... i appreciate that these were very skilled riders and there was very little risk posed. however, if an accident HAD happened (accidents do happen...), the riders could have hit around 20-30 people playing volleyball on the beach. they were jumping very nearly directly upwind from the group. this was a bad example of kiters demonstrating their 'respect' for other beach users. we do not need this.

where does this leave us when we need to ask other kiters not to copy this behaviour? the fact that they were not 'random' riders that were naive to the issues regarding regulation, but actually promo and therefore skilled/aware/responsible only makes it worse.

juggler
VIC, 243 posts
14 Jan 2010 9:23PM
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Might be a little off topic but as kiters where (legislation documention) are kiters classed as a boat etc...vs someone using a skim board?

I do kite in the kiting areas, just curious as to who deemed this places a no kiteboarding zone? Or is it just a thing we are all meant to know?

Don't take into account the jumping near people, i don't encourage this at all!!!

tenno
QLD, 51 posts
14 Jan 2010 9:27PM
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we cant spread ourselves all over the place, there would be a lot of accidents in this case. The beach they were on is for the public to swim, everyone knows that. I think we are very lucky to have the beach we are on in st kilda. I think designated areas are the best for kiters and the public, this way both parties know whats happening!

flight9774
VIC, 36 posts
15 Jan 2010 12:18PM
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Honestly after 2 years of kiting in St. Kilda I am still totally confused about 'rules' or guidelines.

- If we are sailing boats, we could in theory use the water in front of the beach (Sea Baths) as long as we stay outside the yellow buoys. (while launching south (close to the marina) might be possible I am not sure about landing closer towards the pier..
- keeping out of the RMYS's 'kiddies' pool.. I still don't know where that would end north of the pier: the few times they are training there, it would be easy to respect that and just stay out of the area marked by their training buoys..
- swimming between 100 people kiting is a totally stupid idea to begin with, no need for insults...
- are motorboats allowed to anchor along the kite 'instruction/beginner's sandbar' (blocking it)?
- there also is a sign (if you cross the stormdrain over the little bridge) that you are entering an environmentally sensitive area (the grassland I assume) and dogs are generally not allowed.. - aside from being rather pathetic next to the foul smelling drain, how big is that area supposed to be (is that designation current) ?


maybe it is time to consider proper rules or at least guidelines for the whole area..

the first time I saw Maui's North shore rules (see links) I didn't know whether to laugh or to cry, but maybe it all makes sense.

Maybe the KBV could spent a little time on putting together an easily understandable map, proper beach designations (where exactly is west beach, kiddies pool and is there a proper name for the sea baths swimming beach (eg Boganville)?
- and maybe start negotiating clear rules with the council and the RMYS for no-kiting (or restricted kiting if the RMYS eg flys a certain flag or puts up a sign that cadet training is in process) and no swimming, no anchoring (and maybe dogs on leash?!) in the kiting areas. I am not sure the city of Port Melbourne would benefit from a general ban, after all kiteboarding is bringing business and is a great attraction to the otherwise rather unspectacular area.

And a general notice/information board about the area would greatly help, too as it's not all locals kiting there.

just a few ideas - I think most of the conflicts would be easily preventable...

http://www.mauikiteboardingassociation.com/kitemaps.html
www.mauikiteboardingassociation.com/kite_safe_guidelines.pdf



KiteboardingVic
VIC, 418 posts
15 Jan 2010 12:39PM
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juggler said...

Might be a little off topic but as kiters where (legislation documention) are kiters classed as a boat etc...vs someone using a skim board?

I do kite in the kiting areas, just curious as to who deemed this places a no kiteboarding zone? Or is it just a thing we are all meant to know?

Don't take into account the jumping near people, i don't encourage this at all!!!


Skim boarders are probably classed as beach-users and might be in the same category as bodyboarding etc .

Kiters on the other hand are classed by Maritime Safety and Parks Victoria as vessels (even if using a skim board instead of a kiteboard) and this in line with the move to make kiting an olympic sport eventually.

Parks Vic is reponsible for decisions on Boating Zones around Vctoria and is nearly completed in its review of the zones - as part of the review it is the body responsible for nomonation of kiting zones and this is where KBV is working with Parks Vic to try and ensure maximium accessability.

For more information check www.parkweb.vic.gov.au for the details as I believe that they have some news on the status of the project.

KiteboardingVic
VIC, 418 posts
15 Jan 2010 2:38PM
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flight9774 said...

Honestly after 2 years of kiting in St. Kilda I am still totally confused about 'rules' or guidelines.


You raise some very good points so lets look at each separately:

flight9774 said...
- If we are sailing boats, we could in theory use the water in front of the beach (Sea Baths) as long as we stay outside the yellow buoys. (while launching south (close to the marina) might be possible I am not sure about landing closer towards the pier..


You can sail in front of the sea baths as long as you remain in the boating zone which means remaining a couple of hundred meters off-shore. You may not launch/land on that beach as it means passing through a no-go zone to do so.

flight9774 said...
- keeping out of the RMYS's 'kiddies' pool.. I still don't know where that would end north of the pier: the few times they are training there, it would be easy to respect that and just stay out of the area marked by their training buoys..
- swimming between 100 people kiting is a totally stupid idea to begin with, no need for insults...


This is a boating zone (to allow yachts to get to their moorings) but is actually a no-kiting zone - having said that kiters have been tolerated there but if we continue to annoy the RMYS Cadett sailors and hang kites on yacht masts then we might get banned completely.

The rule here is to remain clear of boats underway or moored, and any other obstacles including the pier, the slipway and swimmers - 50 meters!!!!!

flight9774 said...
- are motorboats allowed to anchor along the kite 'instruction/beginner's sandbar' (blocking it)?


Good question - probably, but might be worth comment from Parks Vic.

flight9774 said...
- there also is a sign (if you cross the stormdrain over the little bridge) that you are entering an environmentally sensitive area (the grassland I assume) and dogs are generally not allowed.. - aside from being rather pathetic next to the foul smelling drain, how big is that area supposed to be (is that designation current) ?


I believe it applies to the beach and not the water area. Best to check Parks Vic or COPP web sites.

flight9774 said...
Maybe the KBV could spent a little time on putting together an easily understandable map, proper beach designations (where exactly is west beach, kiddies pool and is there a proper name for the sea baths swimming beach (eg Boganville)?


KBV is awaiting the completion of the Parks Vic Boaing Zone Review - this will then give us a definitive directory of all boating and kiting zones in Victoria.

Negotiations with the councils and Parks Vic as well as Maritime Safety is ongoing. Slowly we are managing to get councils to put up signs (like that at Brighton's Kitebeach) showing kiters and other beach users what areas are desgnated for various activities including rigging, launching/landing etc.

harry potter
VIC, 2777 posts
15 Jan 2010 4:11PM
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In the meantime surely common sense must prevail.......

The best way to do this is to consider your kiting illegal.... just something you get away with, think of yourself as the lowest form of water and beach user.

By this I mean give way to every other craft and beach user, stay well away from swimmers, apologise profusly and sincerely if you cause an incident, stay out of no boating zones ......

I see too many riders posturing up to the public " I am entitled to this , I can go there, I have right of way etc etc..." it is the wrong attitude and not what the kiting community was founded upon.

flight9774
VIC, 36 posts
15 Jan 2010 5:16PM
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harry potter said...

In the meantime surely common sense must prevail.......

The best way to do this is to consider your kiting illegal.... just something you get away with, think of yourself as the lowest form of water and beach user.

By this I mean give way to every other craft and beach user, stay well away from swimmers, apologise profusly and sincerely if you cause an incident, stay out of no boating zones ......



Think so too...

flight9774
VIC, 36 posts
15 Jan 2010 5:38PM
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just had a look at the St Kilda Harbour Concept Plan for the new RMYS facilities and an events beach north of the pier.. if realized like planned (although the document says the current status of the proposal is unclear) that would porbabaly be the end of kiteboarding in the harbour zone ('kiddies pool') anyway...

For those (locals) who are interested there's going to be an info tent on the proposed Catani Gardens and southern foreshore management plan on Sat 31 (i think it was) but you can also get a copy of the draft management plan from the port philip council.. that includes a draft on the RMYS facilities.

www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/index.htm

or email CWhite at portphillip.vic.gov.au

KiteboardingVic
VIC, 418 posts
15 Jan 2010 5:42PM
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flight9774 said...

just had a look at the St Kilda Harbour Concept Plan for the new RMYS facilities and an events beach north of the pier.. if realized like planned (although the document says the current status of the proposal is unclear) that would porbabaly be the end of kiteboarding in the harbour zone ('kiddies pool') anyway...

For those (locals) who are interested there's going to be an info tent on the proposed Catani Gardens and southern foreshore management plan on Sat 31 (i think it was) but you can also get a copy of the draft management plan from the port philip council.. that includes a draft on the RMYS facilities.



Will be VERY interesting - especially as we were invited to make a submission on behalf of kiters - if interested have a look at our submission at:
http://www.kbv.org.au/KBV_Minutes_&_Reports/2008/080918_stkilda_harb_kbv_draft_submission.pdf

flight9774
VIC, 36 posts
15 Jan 2010 5:47PM
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i think the harbour plan is just mentioned for completeness sake.. especially as it's saying they don't have a clue what is happening with it.. (status unclear)

vipar
VIC, 16 posts
15 Jan 2010 5:50PM
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harry potter said...

In the meantime surely common sense must prevail.......

The best way to do this is to consider your kiting illegal.... just something you get away with, think of yourself as the lowest form of water and beach user.

By this I mean give way to every other craft and beach user, stay well away from swimmers, apologise profusly and sincerely if you cause an incident, stay out of no boating zones ......

I see too many riders posturing up to the public " I am entitled to this , I can go there, I have right of way etc etc..." it is the wrong attitude and not what the kiting community was founded upon.


I agree as well. We are the most likely to cause harm to other beach users. At Brighton I see so many kiters attempts tricks within a lines length of the beach, just to make sure their tricks are seen by an unimpressed beachgoer who is more concerned with the safety of their kid than what trick the kiter is pulling.

The mindset should be respectful of all beach users and sharing the stoke amongst kiters, very few non-kiters care what you can do.

Thanks to KBV for clearing some things up. Is there anyway violations can be enforced? For example the kiters in front of the baths were definitely within the 200m (it would be hard to read the logo if they were not).

Maybe explicit signage such as 'No kiteboarding withink 200m of shore' would be of more benefit to our sport than it would initially appear. At least then responsibility of the law-breakers would be placed on the individuals themselves, not the kiting community as a whole.

juggler
VIC, 243 posts
15 Jan 2010 6:31PM
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Cheers for that kbv

KiteboardingVic
VIC, 418 posts
15 Jan 2010 6:56PM
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vipar said...

Thanks to KBV for clearing some things up. Is there anyway violations can be enforced? For example the kiters in front of the baths were definitely within the 200m (it would be hard to read the logo if they were not).




KBV has no authority to enforce - this is done by Parks Vic and the Water Police (presumably under direction of Parks Vic). All we can do is try to incrrease awareness of the issues and the consequences which is why we publish incident reports and try to find out about all incidents.

vipar said...

Maybe explicit signage such as 'No kiteboarding withink 200m of shore' would be of more benefit to our sport than it would initially appear. At least then responsibility of the law-breakers would be placed on the individuals themselves, not the kiting community as a whole.



Individuals will unfortunately always be the culprits and will cause hardship for us all - there is no practical way at the moment to identify individual kiters - there were discussions about having kites numbered like sails are but unless this is done by the kite manufacturers it will be too costly to do and enforce.

So, we have to rely on the goodwill of the community - kiters that see others "misbehaving" suggeting alternatives, other areas or simply pointing out the dangers - mostly this works but there are some out there with "bad attitude" who know it all and get upset (to the extent of bashing people) when told that they are not conducting themselves in an acceptable manner.

We are also in regular contact with the councils as well as Parks Vic and Maritime safety - sometimes in an advisory capacity and sometimes assisting in any ways they ask to regulate etc. Our key charter is to preserve access. Hard to represent Kiters in general as a good bunch when a few are definitely trying to spoil it for us all.

But we try.....

picker
VIC, 431 posts
15 Jan 2010 11:24PM
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i like kiting near swimmers at brighton and out the frount of the sea baths, then some times walking my kite across the grass hill to the sailing club side of the peir. with the new rules will this change? or will i need to compete with others for space amongst the swimers?

oh has any one got a long ladder i can borrow need to get my naish kite down from a mast

Harumaki
NSW, 68 posts
16 Jan 2010 2:59PM
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Lil birdie tells me it was a photo-shoot stunt - no council etc permission - clever move boys!!!

flight9774
VIC, 36 posts
17 Jan 2010 2:20PM
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little correction on the catani gardens and foreshore management plan thing:
The Catani Gardens - council marquee can be found near the playground on Sat. Jan 30 (10.30-12.30) and Wed. Feb 3. (4pm-6pm)..

(sorry not really related to the original post)

RedKite
VIC, 66 posts
18 Jan 2010 11:52PM
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vipar said...

When I got closer I could see their kites had "St Kilda Sea Baths" emblazoned on them.



It's well known who owns these kites.

KBV know's that as well, but does not do anything unlike with other kiters who receive
a public torching without researching the facts.

Another proof that there are conficts of interest within KBV and that KBV does not represent the interest of the kiters anymore, but the interest of a few schools.

craggers
WA, 475 posts
19 Jan 2010 11:33AM
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Well its just typical isnt it!!!! its only a CONCEPT plan, and already some smartarts kiter has to ride into the exclusion zone upwind of the boatyards, presumably because this is where most spectators can capture his forthcoming trick from the most angles.

its behaviour like this that gets us all banned from riding in most concept plans, where the digital water is perfectly smooth, and the wind flatlining on 20 knots.

(seriously now, that wee speck is about the closest thing to a mention of kites in the entire document from my quick scan. and since when is there only ONE kite out in daylight hours??? tell 'em they are dreeeaming).

http://www.parkweb.vic.gov.au/resources/mresources/haveyoursay/StKildaHarbourConceptPlan.pdf

flight9774
VIC, 36 posts
19 Jan 2010 3:35PM
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if I am not mistaken there was talk of a 'FERRY' terminal (?!) as well...
don't those usually come with (restricted) waterways ?

I had just a quick glance at the KBV's submission on that and well, it's pointing out some of the flaws of the plan in rather in-diplomatic terms ..

harry potter
VIC, 2777 posts
19 Jan 2010 5:51PM
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A perfect example ( not the photo but project in general ) as to why St Kilda kiters need to respect the issues which the RMYS have raised re : kiting near the pier and slipway and now between boats.

We cannot expect them to involve kiters or KBV in their planned submissions if they constantly see their current requests being ignored.

Just think how much more flat water there will be with the extension of the breakwall.

Saffer
VIC, 4501 posts
19 Jan 2010 6:18PM
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harry potter said...

A perfect example ( not the photo but project in general ) as to why St Kilda kiters need to respect the issues which the RMYS have raised re : kiting near the pier and slipway and now between boats.

We cannot expect them to involve kiters or KBV in their planned submissions if they constantly see their current requests being ignored.

Just think how much more flat water there will be with the extension of the breakwall.


100% correct.

You got kiters repeatedly ignore the requests to stay away from the slipway and not to kite around the pier, you have people wrapping their kites around yachts and the youngsters in their yachts. If I was the RMYS, I sure as hell wouldn't involve the kiters if I considered them to be a nuisance and the propose plans might make them go away.

Aorta
VIC, 244 posts
19 Jan 2010 10:36PM
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My mate works at the seabaths on Wednesday nights and told me they have been kiting there for the past few weeks, so expect to see them there again tomorrow.

KiteboardingVic
VIC, 418 posts
20 Jan 2010 6:10PM
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Hopefully the original perpetrators are no longer doing this - apparently a written warning was issued to them by COPP and Parks Vic.

It could of-course be other kiters who saw the original bunch and assumed its ok to kite there...

Unfortunately this is hard to follow-up on - anyone seeing this should point out to the kiters they are in the wrong, or failing that, should let us know who they are - this means being able to identify who they are (photo or personal knowledge) and what kite (make & color) each is flying (again a photo is a useful thing).

toma
VIC, 20 posts
20 Jan 2010 6:54PM
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I used a StKilda sea baths kite a couple of days ago for a lesson with Kite Republic, i dunno who got them or whether they actually sponsor riders but i dont think there is any sort of sponsorship going

amclean
VIC, 33 posts
28 Jan 2010 7:57PM
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This is my comment on another forum. The problems it seems is that the areas in the Bays and nearby coast which allow wind and swell (waves) but where chop is restricted are few and far between. St Kilda Pier offers one of those rare spots. I'm not sure Parks Vic, RMYS or others fully appreciate this. The view seems to be that there is plenty of water in the Bay so go there. The argument that the sailing cadets are being harassed by kiters doesn't hold much water as this area is generally utilised when the wind is in the 20-30kn range which is way beyond what the cadets are able to sail in. Crashing into moored yachts of course doesn't help our argument.



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"Sponsored Kiters on St Kilda Main Beach" started by vipar