That got you guys steamed huh?
Seriously I'm just taking the piss ... The Black Guy is me. (really)
Ok so all Humor aside ....
I figured this is prob the best place to post this .... So big thx to all the regulars at S. Cott / Dutchy's that have put up with my epically long learning curve. I know Cotts not exactly a beginners beach but its where I live.... So thanks for putting up with my antics ie Kite bashings, epic face plants, unintentional body dragging (let go of the bar idiot), horrible kite launches, 2x self rescue, crazy water starts (putting up my 12 up @ 25+ kts) and apparently an unintentional epic kite trick (didn't end well at all for me... esp without my board).
All the while you guys/gals still don't get pissed off, continually give out tons of advice and are always nice ... :)
I owe you all a couple of cases and maybe a bbq. (clause: as a group not individually)
Hopefully this'll buy me some time before you all banish me to dog beach or god forbid melville (jk).
Now back to Kitebashing.
Cheers,
PS
BTW I'm not Dumb and Dumber in Cott (last march).... you guys bashed him pretty hard (but crossing Marine Parade in midday traffic was kind of crazy)
^^^^
Problemsmith (sounds like it's going to be "Problem-child")....
Several yrs ago - 2004/05 - the Town of Cottesloe received numerous complaints about kiters/kiting @ Dutchies - those complaints might be exemplified by some of your self confessed behaviours....horrible kite launches, near misses on launch/landing, potentially scaring walkers; residents etc - or in a worst case scenario, injuring someone.
Consequent to those complaints, and in order to maintain access at Dutchies, WAKSA reps negotiated with the Cottesloe council and it became a requirement that all kiters @ Dutchies had to be WAKSA/AKSA members because membership included public liability insurance coverage in the unfortunate event of a kiter injurying Joe/Joe-lene Public. To the best of my knowledge, there's never been an injury to Joe Public @ Dutchies - yet.
Given your newb-ish errors & antics, the potential for you to injure a member of the public appears to be somewhat higher than experienced kiters.
Payment to attend Kitestock cost $150, but did not include a 'complimentary' membership of WAKSA. Attendance at the event was based on you being a WAKSA/AKSA member prior to attending - if you slipped through without being a member, perhaps now it might be the time to join up (currently only $125)....go to www.waksa.org.au & join up - $10 million in public liability insurance should cover you in the event of injury to Joe Public or damage to his/her car.
Imagine, a self confessed newby, ignoring all the best advice to not kite at a spot, until they had sufficient skills....who'd have thought it possible.....
Wow problem child huh... reread what I wrote. I asked for guidance and got a dressing down. I'll pass on your membership / insurance.
I think juddy was giving you guidance. I'll sum it up for you: Dont kite at dutchies unless you are a WAKSA member!
Now my guidance, get some lessons.
Dressing down??? If you seriously think that was a dressing down, you need to take a teaspoon of cement with your morning coffee. I read your post several times before responding y'day with some of the history about Dutchies, so you might understand what's gone on to keep that spot open, and you think it was a dressing down?
Mate, you've admitted to some "kookish" behaviour, at a beach that you recognise is a bit out of your depth so early on in your kiting - this newbish, "she'll be right mate" attitude, is exactly the sort of behaviour that's putting us and our sport at risk around Perth.
Again, and honestly, I can only hope for you, that your acknowledged, kookish behaviour doesn't result in injury to Joe Public or his wife or kids, or damage to their expensive Cottesloe 4WD/sports car parked on Marine Parade, as you get dragged up & over the dunes. Again, given your kookish behaviour, I can only honestly hope you have a good bank balance to cover any potential costs to you, if any of the above happens. (FYI, the AKSA public liability insurance policy covered a Victorian kiter who did $12K damage to a car a couple of yrs ago and approx $75K of damage to a swimmer at Scarborough who got hit in the face by a kite board.)
Whilst it may have been luck or a deliberately evasive move by yourself, you got through the KS registration process without being a WAKSA member - despite the registration process making it 100% clear (in big bold red writing) that attendance is based on being a member beforehand.
Regardless, you managed to attend the event. Bet you had a great time, appreciated all the work put in by a number of volunteers, maybe you participated in one or two comps and events, and you now turn around after attending to say you're not prepared to join, after taking the benefits other members have paid for?
There's a number of words to describe this behaviour, but I'm just going to say that this is just a sad reflection on you.
Select to expand quoteJuddy said...
^^^^
Problemsmith (sounds like it's going to be "Problem-child")....
Please explain why asking for information makes me a child? (perhaps I'm ill informed but the WAKSA's role is to professionally inform the kiteboarding public ... ie without insulting them) lol... OK I now understand the (waksa / AKSA / IKO) mission but seriously when someone asks you if its a requirement to be a member to kite (because they don't know) don't spout off about how they're a problemchild.
So Grandpa before you get all riled up .... I asked a simple question. (sorry about the no sure typo above. I meant not sure, perhaps thats the reason for the response. It could've been yes/no to the first question and a link to follow for more information)
I just wanted to know if it is a requirement to be a waksa / AKSA member to kiteboard in Australia / Cottesloe Beach? yes/ no ... maybe so? Also I asked this before at L2L and got no answer. Perhaps waksa should work on making your info more available … ie should work on your serps. A google search for kiteboarding cottesloe returns not a single listing within the first 5 pages …. lots of kiteboarding schools but not a single listing for waksa membership or waksa insurance reqs for dutchies or south cottesloe beach. Not everyone knows about Seabreeze, guess this information isn't as publicly available as you guys previously believed. (Or perhaps the only path to enlightenment is through a waksa approved instructor?)
BTW I seriously thought the waksa membership came with the ticket. Sorry ... now I know.Problemsmith said...
No sure .... Why is there a requirement to be an AKSA member to kiteboard in
Australia / Cottesloe Beach? BTW didn't AKSA membership come complimentary with Kitestock tickets? Juddy said...
Several yrs ago - 2004/05 - the Town of Cottesloe received numerous complaints about kiters/kiting @ Dutchies - those complaints might be exemplified by some of your self confessed behaviours....horrible kite launches, near misses on launch/landing, potentially scaring walkers; residents etc - or in a worst case scenario, injuring someone.
Good grief, I asked if membership is a requirement and I got a campfire story. Anyway thx for the story gramps.
Scaring walkers... why the hell would I be up on marine parade with my kite? That would be a hell of a boost... next stop red bull king of the air. (yes lots of jokes could be made there.... I'll leave a space for yours_________.)
Btw most people don't walk south cott beach/dutchies... due to all the experienced waksa kiters there. Hmmm, it aint the beginners arguing with locals and landing jumps in the middle of little kids swimming huh? And you speak of antics?
Residents ....btw I am a cott resident. (not planning on kiting home anytime soon...( >>>>_____________.)
All humor aside.... If you waksa folks really want to police something…. (turn blind eye to truth now)
Go police the kiters and windsurfers setting up and breaking down in the middle of the playground at Dutchies while little kids are playing. (we turn a blind eye to that huge liability there huh... maybe because its waksa membership doing it?) The parenting groups are fairly fumed about that atm… not a clue huh?
Or the veterans kiting through swimmers at Cottesloe proper during downwinders. (hmm... I'd say more about NCSLC / CSLSC not being keen to that ? But ill pass....they're all coming from duchies with waksa cards…. right?)
BTW there's lots of fun to be found on mosman / dog beach as well. Dog owners are pretty pissed too.
Should I once again remind you of your pure and spotless members who do jumps and land in the middle of the little kids swimming... this is well past the posted waksa point (let me guess... now they're not waksa members now huh?) Juddy said...
Consequent to those complaints, and in order to maintain access at Dutchies, WAKSA reps negotiated with the Cottesloe council and it became a requirement that all kiters @ Dutchies had to be WAKSA /AKSA members because membership included public liability insurance coverage in the unfortunate event of a kiter injurying Joe/Joe-lene Public. To the best of my knowledge, there's never been an injury to Joe Public @ Dutchies - yet.
This info about the req for cott kiters to be isn't easy to find… its simply not. Wouldn't it make more sense to start a permanently posted topic stating these regulations other than a link at the top of Kitesurfing Western Australia (& WAKSA) thread that states registration form which then points to a website which I'd then have search your website for the location. (I'd hate to be a visitor that doesn't speak the language needing to get this info only starting at seabreeze), google search or good or god forbid right at the beach. But better yet list a start with listing a flyer for Cottesloe here on seabreeze perhaps. Cause all I see listed is:waksa said...
Where to kitesurf in Western Australia (official)
WAKSA (Western Australia Kitesurfing Association) have published a fantastic set of guides on where to kite in WA.
Many of WA beaches are coming under pressure from increasing numbers of kiters, so if we all work together and stay within the zones detailed in these flyers, we will continue to kite there for many years to come.
River Kiting, popular for learners & freestylers:
* Attadale (south side of the river)
* Melville (south side of the river)
* Pelican Point (north side of the river)
Ocean Kiting close to Perth:
* Leighton
Wave Kiting north of Perth:
* Scarborough
* Lancelin
Flat water kiting, north of Perth:
* Mullaloo
and Flat water kiting, south of Perth:
* Safety Bay / Penguin Island
Cott nowhere to be found. Perhaps your idea was to tell off a beginner in the forums then permanently post that hmmmm… hows that working out for you?Juddy said...
Given your newb-ish errors & antics, the potential for you to injure a member of the public appears to be somewhat higher than experienced kiters.
Wow Einstein.
Response: Given ANY NEWBIES newb-ish errors & antics, the potential for SAID NEWBIE to injure a member of the public appears to be somewhat higher than experienced kiters. <<<< No comment needed.
I'll give you that I've made some epic mistakes ... I came up here to apologise to the local Cott Kiter community for them. Not get publicly lambasted, tar and feathered then -itch slapped by the waksa to be subsequently questioned about my liability and indemnity. (which you have every right to do... just not in the f--ing public forums) If you'd like to do that feel free to have waksa PM me. As witnessed above I'm well-versed in -itch slapping myself thank you. 
Juddy said...
Payment to attend Kitestock cost $150, but did not include a 'complimentary' membership of WAKSA. Attendance at the event was based on you being a WAKSA/AKSA member prior to attending - if you slipped through without being a member, perhaps now it might be the time to join up (currently only $125)....go to www.waksa.org.au & join up - $10 million in public liability insurance should cover you in the event of injury to Joe Public or damage to his/her car.
Ok thanks for the link.... I had a waksa kite stock ticket that i got last minute but didn't attend (was epically crushed about not attending) ... but now I feel much better about it. Sorry that I misread the waksa kitestock registration form, I was under the impression that it included waksa membership. As I remember it I spoke with a waksa member during L2L that told me it was included in the ticket. Sorry... guess I shouldn't have trusted an waksa member huh. Anyway no need to pull out the Kitestock rego form and quote it on seabreeze... I misread it. (space for grandpa's campfire spiel about how a newbies mistake while reading the waksa rego got them and everyone else killed>>>>__________)
But if your trying to sell me insurance you're not doing a great job. Ok so membership gives me insurance but that doesn't make me experienced huh. But thats the spiel right hold em hostage, beat em down, take their cash then tell the cops that they were walking through the wrong neighbourhood... lol? So cop some insurance through membership and do as you darn well please with no regard for fellow kiters. ok not the best message… but thats how it reads. (all jokes intended ... but the waksa should probably invest in a new spokesperson for online image control... cause Juddy wth)
I guess your next question is if I've had lessons right??? ... then you'll try to point me in the direction of your closest waksa licensed instructor. (elemental, ako, kbp, ksw) #LOL
Anyway let me rephrase my question.... is IKO membership / insurance good enough for the waksa or is this a double tap payment situation here in Australia? Nevermind don't answer please.... you'll blowup the seabreeze datacentre with your long winded response. (>>>>>_____pot calling the kettle black….. perhaps we should both shut our blowholes and just get on with it?)
BTW other than the sign that just appeared at South Cottesloe Beach saying setup your kites 100 m down the beach there's nothing regarding liability/indemity/waksa membership info posted. (unless you or waksa hid it in the dunes.... 
) So it's probably in the best interests of everyone involved that waksa posts this information for the public to see. ie not just on seabreeze and the waksa website. (That way this whole debacle doesn't happen every time a newbie posts something in the forum… or goes wth is waksa? work smarter not harder) I'd say the steps down to the beach would be a good place to start.... even dutchies playground (just put it on the kids slide, thats the official setup/ breakdown point right?) btw just to check my ass I just looked on my morning run/workout, not a sign in sight other than the new setup 100m down sign. But I guess thats the town of Cott's fault right?Juddy said...
^^^^
Imagine, a self confessed newby, ignoring all the best advice to not kite at a spot, until they had sufficient skills....who'd have thought it possible.....
LOL, I knew there'd be one, just didn't expect it to be you guys. BTW not once did I state someone said not to kite at dutchies / cottesloe beach as a beginner. I said.... "not exactly a beginners beach" .... this was stated by experienced kiters that learned there and I'm fairly sure are part of your membership. Back to availability and evangelism of your organisation.
Just a heads up... I appreciate the waksa's misson and what you guys are attempting to do for the sport. (safety, risk aversion, insurance, instruction, governance, compliance, events, promotion, location info etc) but most of the talk I've heard about waksa lately has been extremely negative and from this conversation I'm beginning to understand why.
I'm sure the reigning body will have another -itch slapping lined up for me tonight about how I should I should respect my elders and never talk back to the waksa when they scold me.
So in full irony I'll post @NOBS's picture for you (Juddy) .... hopefully my response is understood because last time my simple inquiries were not.
Seriously I'm not even riled about the whole "nigga plez" thing (I thought it was fine), and I'm usually cool. BTW to the waksa members that I do know and respect sorry for showing my *ss but most beginners just read your forum and don't post anything for this exact reason.
I'd post suggestions but I'm sure I'll have a firm talking to that'll go all the way back to the Wright Brothers and Samuel Cody.
Look i'll buy the membership just be a nicer mob seriously, my attempt was to be proactive and in retrospect I should've just stayed under the radar. The beginners you -itch slap…. well we're the possible majority of your forced future membership. There's a right way to do it... this ain't it…check SLS WA … thats an exemplary way to do this.
It just seems like you're a global organisation / bunch of older kids who smile in front of the teacher and then bully the new student. Buy my insurance card, put on some tags and you're good to go…. Kite Mafia.
In retrospect I probably went overboard in my response…. I'd like to join the kite mafia (WAKSA) and contribute to making this a safer sport and learn something from you old timers. (joke …. don't get you undies in a bunch… I'm just taking the piss)
I'd like to become part of WAKSA but not looking to get double tapped now.
Ok my original response and question was confusing … can someone please tell me if IKO membership / insurance is sufficient or if there is a specific requirement that you are a WAKSA member to kite in Cottesloe? Or is WAKSA>AKSA not under IKO? Also can you not participate in WAKSA if your IKO? (remember I'm just a beginner)
And does IKO honour WAKSA … because looking online this is just confusing.
this probably warrants another thread.
hmmm... sorry Juddy missed your response earlier ....
wow taking guidance from edward teach lol ... na ill listen to definitely Juddy before I listen to someone whose handle is blackbeard and puts a sail to sea.
No Juddy I would've just figured out all of this at kitestock but didn't get there.
LOL teaspoon of cement... Sad reflection. no worries.
Dave,
First of all, grammatically, inverted commas or quotation marks such as those around "problem-child" are often used to indicate a different meaning of a word or phrase than the one typically associated with it and are often used to express irony, no more. My sense of humour tends to be a tad dry @ the best of times..
Secondly, I'm absolutely happy for you to call me "grandpa" mate..I've always thought grand-dad's role was to pass on info & history to those youngster children coming up through the ranks, so they'd understand how/why things are the way they are. That 'camp fire' history was exactly that - letting you know that your self advertised kookisms at Dutchies was the reason why WAKSA/AKSA membership is a Cottesloe council requirement at Dutchies. When you self-advertise your newby mistakes, including by the way, a photo that didn't look too promising, you put yourself in the line of fire for comments; when you advise you launched, or tried to launch a 12m in 25knots, you put yourself in the line of fire for comments. That my friend, is part & parcel of posting on SB and has happened to all of us.
You've previously posted on SB about setting up a group for new kiters (that was here: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/The-Hookup/New-Perth-Kiteboarding-Meetup-Group and I took the time to join that group http://www.meetup.com/Perth-Kiteboarding-Kitesurfing/events/101149442/ to provide you & the others in that group some advice & links to location maps & so on - again, potentially a grandad act, but many of us "geriatrics" (quotation marks, irony here again Dave) have seen too many newbies do the wrong thing, unintentionally in most cases, & the links and maps etc was to assist you & the members of your group, and potentially, minimise any stuff ups.
Indeed, I did encourage you to join WAKSA, not in order to be the "kite mafia" (those damn quotation marks again), but to encourage you to meet some new crew and attend events such as Kitestock, and yes, in light of your newb status, encourage some degree of protection via the PL insurance. (see your note above about 12m kite in 25knots; see your photo above of you being dragged onto beach.) Just as an aside, there's Dutch Inn/Cottesloe specific advice on the WAKSA site: www.waksa.org.au/locations?view=location&id=23.
Given you're a relatively new kiter, perhaps I should have issued a disclaimer prior to my advice to you in that 1) yes, I am a WAKSA member, and 'somewhat' active as a member; 2) I've previously been the President of the association, and in that role I've spent some considerable time working on beach access issues for a number of years; & 3) in giving you the camp fire history, was hoping you might appreciate that things have happened before you (and I) came into the sport (BTW, welcome, and granted, you weren't to know of them - hence the camp fire story.) Dave, there is a much bigger picture going on - and should you or any kiter (newb or experienced) injure someone/damage something, we are all at risk of having less beach access - not just @ Dutchies.
Finally, the bottom line in all of this, is that outside of the local council imposed obligation at Dutchies, there is no obligation to join WAKSA. I think I've pointed out the potential situations about what might happen to anyone, but especially to a new kiter.
If you're keen to join, I'm sure you'll be a welcome member. Shameless plug here: go to www.waksa.org.au/membership and sign up. I value my house & income so I'm a member. I want an organisation that goes into bat for me & all kiters with councils & government departments, so I'm a member. I want to go to events & Kitestock each year, so I'm a member. Is it a perfect organisation? No. Is it better than no organisation? Absolutely yes.
Perhaps you & I get together, have a chat & a beer & talk things through?
My mobile number is 0419 932 204. Over to you.
Juddy
wont get back that 5mins
....gee you guys can type.
Problem child you should talk to Juddy and invest in a membership, With respect to hind sight and your track record, you have a reletiviely cheap oportunity to CYA, (cover your ass)
