How about an explanation on the differences between the LLF and some of the other manufactures. Blokart, Manta, Sirocco for examples.
Just a different or BETTER mousetrap?
Enlighten this misplaced Yank sailor.
Near 24° 10.818'N 110° 26.364'W
The stayed mast concept is to make the chassis ridged and let the mast / back axle take any twist that is generated by the rig.
The unstayed idea is for the yacht main spine tube to take a lot of the twisting that is created, if the chassis twists there is less pressure on the mast at the mast mounting point and perhaps less likely for the mast to fail.
Both variations have there good points and bad points, if you sailed on a rough surface a yacht with flex and twist would perhaps give a better ride, without side stays its easier to get in and out of the yacht but it also has reduced the things to hang onto for a beginner.
If the surface you sailed on was VERY smooth and constant winds it might be better to go for a ridged chassis and that way the rig forces can be used for forward motion. If the wind is flexing the chassis it's probably not making the yacht move forward.
Remember Newtons 3rd law of motion... "To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction"
I know I will be using stays on my winged mini, using a wood axle to take up the flex.
early days yet, very much and experiment
I do like Baja tho...
Mike,
What makes the LLF a better Mouse Trap (As you put it) is that it is the essence of simplicity in its construction, which makes it an easy project for home builders that want that little extra enjoyment from the sport.. If not in your Country at least in this one the m Shop Built units are Over Priced and out of the reach of most Punters. The LLF can be built from quality Recycled Bits and Pieces. Sails are easily reconstructed etc. You tell me! What greater self satisfaction can one get out of saying "That is my EFFORT, I built that. Do you not think that your fellow Northern builders, desertyank and Sabydent should be rightfully proud of their efforts??
Just try sourcing and assembling materials, asking advice from fellow Home Builders etc you may be surprised how enjoyable a build can be.. Hey there are those that lack the ability or Will to go to these lengths and go Shell out exorbitant amounts on a Shop built machine only to find out they have purchased from a Fly By Night Pie of Rubbish.
Tap Into the Forum Search, ZOOTER
Hopefully I have given you some Food for Thought..
Ron
PS; Also check out CHOOK in the forum, it will be an eye opener.
Opps did not read the question properly, mistakenly I thought it was about stayed and unstayed masts. I'm with Ron, build a LLM . They preform well and are cheap and easy to build. It takes a good bloKart to stay with them .
Cheers
aus230
the answer is ....different.... for so many reasons. Whether it is different good/bad depends on point of view.
Lets not rekindle the us & them - Blokart vs LLF argument again. Its been done to death before and I think we've reached the conclusion that what you get in a Blokart package, the R&D, marketing, insurance, support etc etc is good value for money, they're a great landyacht and you're guaranteed to get an outstanding product.
The LLF is for those who can and have the time build their own. I'm sure if you put an hourly value on your time and effort they wouldn't be any cheaper than a Blokart. Obviously the quality depends on your abilities and if you build a dangerous landyacht you only have yourself to blame.
Basically you can't go wrong with a Blokart if you've got the money and you can't go wrong with a LLF if you've got the time and ability!
Nothing wrong with blokarts great little yachts, why I suggested a LLM was that mike was looking for the plans in a previous post.
I don,t care what anyone sails as long as there sailing and having fun.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/General/Where-do-I-find-Pauls-plans-for-LakeLefroy-mini/
Cheers
aus230
or even the slightly more comfy Spirit of Christmas
Thanks guys,
Gizmo covered the main differences.
Mike,
Just keep in mind I give everyone a hard time[}:)], Tis just part of my Charm I can take it in return.. We are a thick skinned lot us Ausies. Sort of like the Skin on an Old-man Kangaroo, if you've ever skinned one of them out you will know what I'm talking about
.
I am not saying you have to use recycled materials, what I am saying that is how we go about it here. Helps keep the build prices down.. Hay if you want you can build from CNC Titanium. I first built Schrodinger's Cat out of Carbon Fiber mast material and it worked well for a short while until the Mast Step was torn out. That again is what Home Building is about---------------Experimentation.
Oh! And you can't blame me if you want to live in a remote part of the World[}:)] Go Steal some Road Side Signs but not Stop Signs or Give Way signs..
Ron
Mike 612... for example here is a pic of a yacht I built in the 80's.
It had 3 mast stays, it was intended to make the chassis as stiff as possible... and it did that BUT made the yacht virtually unsailable on anything apart from a perfectly smooth salt lake, beach sailing (as shown in the pic) was hell until the front stay was removed to allow the front to have some flex.
sn: "Small 'T' stock down the sides of step to mainframe for side loading.) May just be over engineering for the loads.
similar is now being done with a strap going down the side of the mast tube, around the chassis tube and back up the other side, welded in place."
If you or anyone has a link to above modification how about a link of posting.
Nikrum: What makes you think there are road signs? The government issues driver licenses if you can print your name and hand over pesos. It is good to know you have such extravagant things down under!
Select to expand quoteIf you or anyone has a link to above modification how about a link of posting.
I used 2 1/2 inch muffler pipe for my main frame tube and mast step. Split PVC pipe as a mast protector
Here is a link to a photo of how I braced my mast tube. That pink stuff is body filler and is not needed.
the photo in this link ^^^^^ shows both the "flat bar mast tube brace" with its holes, and the reinforcing strap really well!
Fantastic !!! One more to our clan, Welcome.
Here is the solution that Paul told me to do.
Curve it round a much smaller (50mm diameter) pipe by hand till the ends touch and then open it up and slip it over the chassis. Tack weld the center underneath and get it tight by using a G clamp, to close up the gap at the mast base by tapping it tight against the mast step as you go.
Dont fully weld it.
I welded on two links of chain the top one for downhaul and the 2nd for sheeting.
Cheers Chook
my (badly educated) guess is it probably has something to do with weakening the chassis tube if it is a continuous weld.
on mine, (and the others that i am currently building) the spine/chassis pipe is smaller than the mast step. So i simply used a hole saw to drill two offset holes and fully welded around.
If you know what you're doing with a welder you shouldn't weaken it, mind you I used 3mm wall thickness Pipe, I welded the mast step reo fully and it isn't bothering the Spine integrity at all.
Ron
sn: "counts me out then- best part of my welds is the paint"
I can appreciate that. I have not even tried to burn a rod for decades.
For beach use, I think the salt residue between strap and chassis would be more of corrosion problem. Was the bondo , body filler, a sealer for the gaps or just for appearances or to hide the welds?
Chook2: nice detail and pictures.
Not sure the full chassis wrap is a benefit compared to just side straps, 25x3mm flat bars welded at 45 degree angles fore and aft both sides to horizontal c/l of chassis. No hidden areas for corrosion. (May interfere with the mount of kiddy petals)
The heat involved in welding creates a 'brittle' area immediately adjacent to the the weld, the weld itself being stronger (generally) than the parent metals. So if you do a complete weld you also create a complete weakened area round the tube.
Cheers Col
that simple strap was original used to reinforce the mast step on our class5 promos after I snapped a mast off, the much bigger loads havent been a problem so on a mini it would be fine
Thanks for the replies fellas;
You have covered the questions nicely.
As for the corrosion trap, if you have a look at the bottom right hand weld in the last photo of my post you will see a slight bleed through, on the covering of cold galv paint.
When I have welded the straps to my last 3 yachts, while they are still pretty warm I slopped linseed oil into the gaps with a paint brush.
When it cools it sets like a varnish. Wipe the excess off with thinners and it can be painted over after a few days.
An old mate, who had spent most of his life on sheep stations, taught me this trick, soon after I left school. We were erecting timber sheep yards on our farm and he'd kick my bum, if I didn't dip the bolts in linseed oil before fitting them. He was right though as the black steel bolts through the "wandoo" hard wood, would still undo 30 years later to replace a broken plank.
I used to do this to the suction floats and pump bolts on the windmills and when the bolts were rusted away and you could still undo the nuts, due to the linseed sealing out the weather.
As for Paul's "Lake Lefroy Mini".
It is a very well thought out design and the most fun I've had, for a small investment, in a long, long time. 10/10 from me, mate.
If you build one of these, you will not be disappointed and it won't be your last either.
hear hear
It's always very difficult for me to not change designs. However i was given some solid advise when i started, for the first one at least stick to the plan, do what you want after that when you are working from at least some experience!
