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Class 5 set up?

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Created by Daryl2642 > 9 months ago, 20 Jun 2011
Daryl2642
43 posts
20 Jun 2011 3:36AM
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Hi I'm restoring a Class 5 Yorker and wanted to know the best way of setting up my axles so they are true and level so I can then go about accurately calibrating for toe out and camber.

Also I'm having difficulty getting my tires to seat symmetrically on my wheels even when using washing up liquid to help them pop out to the wheel rim. About a quarter of the tire seems to stick inside the wheel rim and not sit on the rim properly. I know the wheels are good. Any ideas?



Hiko
1229 posts
20 Jun 2011 6:45AM
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If the tyres wont pop out at the recommended max pressure even with soap on them
I would suggest you go to a bike shop with one and ask their advice
Lining up the wheels I load the yacht up with pilot and rig weight and set the wheels by eye to two parallel lines on the garage floor ie no toe in or out at all
Our club has a jig for doing this and there are other methods also
Camber is a matter of sailing surface and personal preference generally around 10 degrees
Like the look of your yacht Intrigued by the sail number!

Daryl2642
43 posts
20 Jun 2011 7:21AM
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Hiko said...

If the tyres wont pop out at the recommended max pressure even with soap on them
I would suggest you go to a bike shop with one and ask their advice
Lining up the wheels I load the yacht up with pilot and rig weight and set the wheels by eye to two parallel lines on the garage floor ie no toe in or out at all
Our club has a jig for doing this and there are other methods also
Camber is a matter of sailing surface and personal preference generally around 10 degrees
Like the look of your yacht Intrigued by the sail number!


Thanks for that. Lines on the garage floor is a good idea. Sail number should read K101. It's a Yorker built by Dave Green in the UK I believe.

Clemco
430 posts
20 Jun 2011 9:53AM
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Thats a very good Class5 you have there. Are those 26" or 19" wheels? If 19" yes they can be very hard to get on all square. Sometimes I have had to go up to 60psi pressure to make mine pop into position. Can be quite scarey, wear safety glasses just in case. Also use lots talcum powder around the tube so it doesn't get crimped. I find I like at least 15 degrees camber for beach sailing.
With wheel alignment, the rear wheels must be set parallel and square and centered to the front wheel. Set up some straight edges on blocks or boxes tied to the outside wheels with bungy chord. Stretch a measuring tape across each end of the straight edges and adjust the wheel so the measurements are equal. Also center the front wheel at the same time. Dont try and do it by eye. Your eyes are easily fooled. (know wonder Hiko is so slow)

This is how I did it with the mini but it is exactly the same process with the bigger yacht. I know the solid disk wheels are a bit difficult to tie a straight edge to so you may have to tape on some packers to clear the disks so you are lining up off the edge of the tires.

Daryl2642
43 posts
20 Jun 2011 5:52PM
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Clemco said...

Thats a very good Class5 you have there. Are those 26" or 19" wheels? If 19" yes they can be very hard to get on all square. Sometimes I have had to go up to 60psi pressure to make mine pop into position. Can be quite scarey, wear safety glasses just in case. Also use lots talcum powder around the tube so it doesn't get crimped. I find I like at least 15 degrees camber for beach sailing.
With wheel alignment, the rear wheels must be set parallel and square and centered to the front wheel. Set up some straight edges on blocks or boxes tied to the outside wheels with bungy chord. Stretch a measuring tape across each end of the straight edges and adjust the wheel so the measurements are equal. Also center the front wheel at the same time. Dont try and do it by eye. Your eyes are easily fooled. (know wonder Hiko is so slow)

This is how I did it with the mini but it is exactly the same process with the bigger yacht. I know the solid disk wheels are a bit difficult to tie a straight edge to so you may have to tape on some packers to clear the disks so you are lining up off the edge of the tires.


Thanks.

26" wheels...originally from NZ now in the UK, I got them off Mike Hampton.

I'll give the high pressure treatment a go and see if I can get them to seat.

And thanks for the picture, most helpful! I'll give that a go.

Thanks again.

Nikrum
TAS, 1972 posts
21 Jun 2011 4:50PM
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Hey Clemco,
On rear wheel alignment I used the same technique but I used a Spirit level with a built in Lazar. You have to make sure the lazar is running Parallel to Both side and bottom of the Spirit Level though. The beauty of that is there is no limit to the length of the beam well you aren't going to try to use it at a 500mtrs are you???
But, Thee farther the better.
Just a point of interest is all I'm sayin'
Ron

Clemco
430 posts
21 Jun 2011 3:41PM
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You have 26" IMAC wheels. They are very well made. What is the tire you are putting on? Make sure it is the wire bead type. We have had a few of the nylon bead type stretch and pop off while sailing.

Daryl2642
43 posts
22 Jun 2011 7:19AM
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Clemco said...

You have 26" IMAC wheels. They are very well made. What is the tire you are putting on? Make sure it is the wire bead type. We have had a few of the nylon bead type stretch and pop off while sailing.


I'll check the beading type. They are Maxxis Hook Worm downhill tiers.

Nikrum
TAS, 1972 posts
22 Jun 2011 10:13AM
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Yeah! Daryl,
Check out AUS230, I am sure it was he who is using Hookies and may be able to give you some tips.
Ron

Clemco
430 posts
22 Jun 2011 8:20AM
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Maxxis hookworm 26x2.5. I have been using them for a couple of years now. A good solid tire. It saves having to shave off tread from the other types. I have had no trouble with them. Can handle 65psi. Also could handle sailing tarmac surface. I would also recommend a Maxxis Miracle 20" for the front.

Nikrum
TAS, 1972 posts
22 Jun 2011 10:24AM
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You are tight Clemco, you just reminded I have a Maxxis Miracle on the front of Schrodinger's Cat and it works well on tarmac, though I haven't put much wear on it up to now. Sticks like Poo to a Blanket.

aus230
WA, 1659 posts
22 Jun 2011 10:28AM
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I have used the same combination as Clem for several years now and still using the original set, 3 seasons of hard racing where I see the wheel barrow tires being replaced every second meeting.(one of the reasons I have stuck with big wheels as they are cheaper in the long run)
Cheers
aus230

Nikrum
TAS, 1972 posts
22 Jun 2011 1:13PM
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Thanks for that AUS, I was pretty much disappointed with the Barrow tires on The Cat as about 5hrs work on tarmac has just about cut them out.. I am now looking at Kenda Tires.. I also am looking for a source of Air Craft Tires for Air Track Tires as the Used ones ore only any good at low speeds, too much touch down Burn Out.
Ron

Daryl2642
43 posts
22 Jun 2011 6:37PM
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Clemco said...

Maxxis hookworm 26x2.5. I have been using them for a couple of years now. A good solid tire. It saves having to shave off tread from the other types. I have had no trouble with them. Can handle 65psi. Also could handle sailing tarmac surface. I would also recommend a Maxxis Miracle 20" for the front.


Yep, that's the set up I have on the front too. Just need to get 65psi into the main wheels so they seat properly now.

desertyank
1262 posts
22 Jun 2011 10:53PM
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Daryl2642 said...

Clemco said...

Maxxis hookworm 26x2.5. I have been using them for a couple of years now. A good solid tire. It saves having to shave off tread from the other types. I have had no trouble with them. Can handle 65psi. Also could handle sailing tarmac surface. I would also recommend a Maxxis Miracle 20" for the front.


Yep, that's the set up I have on the front too. Just need to get 65psi into the main wheels so they seat properly now.


I have had good success using silicone spray on the tire bead, and the wheel bead. Nice slippery stuff, and won't eat the rubber

Nikrum
TAS, 1972 posts
23 Jun 2011 9:39AM
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What ever happened to a bit of soft soap and water?? Dosen't anybody wash these days??
Ron

Nikrum
TAS, 1972 posts
23 Jun 2011 12:16PM
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Oh Yeah! I forgot. Sand-gropers don't like water or washing.[}:)]
Ron

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
23 Jun 2011 2:44PM
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Also water tends to lead to rust on inside of wheel. Not good.
In fact that is probably the source of most of your problems right there ikkiN hooP. Too much moisture! Your'e rusting away from the inside

Nikrum
TAS, 1972 posts
23 Jun 2011 5:03PM
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Shees! You're Worse than the Barbers Cat "All P**S and Wind"
Ron

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
23 Jun 2011 10:48PM
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you boys are doing your crap again , how about taking it to nickrums page and deleting those last couple of posts. this thread has some important info for tyre fitting.
please

Daryl2642
43 posts
2 Jul 2011 12:33AM
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Thanks for all the suggestions.... this is how I decided to make my jig.






Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
2 Jul 2011 1:59AM
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There is a chance it might just work!

desertyank
1262 posts
2 Jul 2011 2:37AM
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I like the concept a lot Just be careful you don't tension the line on the front of it enough to bend the outer arms in. I will assume you spent the time to make the screw height adjusters even, and the length from axle to degree wheels exactly the same on both sides too.. (I'm not doubting you did, just pointing out possible variances)

If so, it looks like the thing should work great, as long as the rear wheel bearings don't have much play in them. If they do, try over-tightening the wheel bearings for the align

When you checked it, was it already in alignment? It looks like a great rig, and probably doesn't need much to maintain it.

One last thing; make sure the bars are perfectly level with the ground (assume level ground), otherwise, the measurements will be off...

Good luck! Post pics of the beast sailing when possible

Daryl2642
43 posts
2 Jul 2011 5:00AM
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desertyank said...

I like the concept a lot Just be careful you don't tension the line on the front of it enough to bend the outer arms in. I will assume you spent the time to make the screw height adjusters even, and the length from axle to degree wheels exactly the same on both sides too.. (I'm not doubting you did, just pointing out possible variances)

If so, it looks like the thing should work great, as long as the rear wheel bearings don't have much play in them. If they do, try over-tightening the wheel bearings for the align

When you checked it, was it already in alignment? It looks like a great rig, and probably doesn't need much to maintain it.

One last thing; make sure the bars are perfectly level with the ground (assume level ground), otherwise, the measurements will be off...

Good luck! Post pics of the beast sailing when possible


Good points. I hadn't thought about the wheel bearings. But I had based my thinking on tightening the bolt down. Yes I made sure the screw height adjusters are equal and the bars are level.

I'm thinking of making another version from some box section that is less likely to bend and give a false reading. Unlike the 2 chrome clothes rails I used! (what can I say, I had them to hand)!



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"Class 5 set up?" started by Daryl2642