forgot to include. The damaged wheel in the pic above took about half an hour to repair and is now back on the yacht.
It took some time, but both rear wheels are finished now, together with a large part of the frame. The front fork has been changed to a single sided fork, for the rest it is almost exactly as my design I posted before. Also the frame is exactly as my design posted before, but an adjustable mounting position for the foot-steer has been added. Moreover, the metal tubes of the frame have become a little bit different, the steel is a 57 x 2.9 tube and the aluminium is 50 x 4. For the wheels, I have chosen to use 45 NRTH H?sker D? tires instead of Surly tires, for the simple reason that I found a couple that was a lot cheaper (Surly: +/- ? 90,- each wheel, 45 NRTH: ? 55,- each wheel).
Next are the rear-wheel axles and the foot steer and steering rod.
Some photos of building the frame:
Some photos of building the front fork and damping assembly:
It has been a long time since my last post, but there has been some progress in building my class 5.
Seat
For the seat I made a mold of Styrofoam. I added some pieces together with polyurethane foam and cut out the shape of the seat with a (wood) saw. Next I used a sander to soften the surface of the mold. It then looked like this.
After the mold was finished, I clothed the mold fully with fiberglass and then used the polyester solution to make the first layer of the seat. I think this was not the best way to do it, since the sides haven’t become fully smooth, but there are bubbles in it. I think it is better to do smaller parts at once, as I did with the next layers. These next layers fit quite well with the first layer. In total the main part of the seat exists of 3 layers of 16 oz, chopped mats. After the main part was finished, I added at the inside the sitting board. This I prefabricated on a wooden plate which I clamped between two pieces of metal, to get a curve in it. Also I added a small platform at the inside of the seat to install the pulleys. At the underside of the seat I added a frame of wooden ribs, which I glassed over to get some additional stiffness in the bottom plate. The sitting board is made of 3 layers of 16 oz, chopped mats and the ribs and platform for the pulleys of 2 layers of the same mats.
Mast, boom, sail
As I stated earlier, I used 3 aluminum tubes of 50 x 2, 45 x 2 and 40 x 1,5 mm to make the mast. The mast is built like Paul suggested earlier in this topic in 3 parts of nested tubes. The nested tubes are connected to each other by rivets of stainless steel. A sail was specially made for me and the boom consists of a 45 x 2 mm aluminum tube, on which I mounted two shackles.
In the meanwhile I also build the steering rod and mounted the rear axles. Almost all parts of the yacht are finished now and I am busy putting it all together now. Thereafter only the painting, testing, improving, retesting etc. await and then it is finally finished.
(Sorry for the quality of the photo(s), when it is more or less finished, I will take pictures with a good camera instead of with my 4-year old phone's camera)
And finally everything is put together for the first time.
Unfortunately there wasn't enough wind today to test it. (And when there was a gust, there wasn't enough space to test it, which almost ended up in a collision with a car).
One thing I did find out is that there is too much play on the steer. I think this is due to the fact that my flexible rod joiner (at both ends of the steering rod a piece of hydraulic hose) is a bit too flexible. I will try to find something more stiff and try to make the fixations on both ends of the rod joiner closer to each other, so that less distance is being covered by them.
However, I will be 3,5 month away now for an internship, so this improvement, the painting and further testing of my yacht will be done a couple of months later.
Looks like a proffesional build
What are you goin' to name it
Lookin' at the sail i'd call it "Black Arrow"
Thank you. Although the smoothness of the seat could be better, overall I am quite happy myself too with the result. But still, a lot has to be done before it is fully ready to sail.
I haven't yet thought of a name, but indeed 'Black Arrow' would be applicable.
I also still have to decide which color it will get. The metal probably black, but the wheels and the seat I still have to decide.
I've seen this question asked in this thread on the first page but haven't noticed an answer to it. Question is how are the aluminum axles tightened into the steel frame with the three bolts? Do they tighten directly to the outside of the aluminum or go through and tighten to inside of the opposite wall or another version? Sorry if it was answered earlier or in another thread. Also, is anything used around the aluminum to tighten the fit up into the steel or are the bolts sufficient?
My bolts just lock into the aluminium (my tubes are six mill thick) it they where thinner they may need a wood insert to stop the tube from collapsing from the bolt pressure. I notice some class5 use a clamp arrangement at the end of the Y
thx for the help. the aluminum that i have is scaffolding that is about 4.4mm thickness. I will plan on an insert so there is no chance of anything collapsing.
Finally sailing on the beach:
I had it on the beach once before, but there was no wind. However, by going from a hill, the fiberglass in the seat cracked at the mounting point closest to the mast step. I strengthened this mounting point by adding a stainless steel plate both on top and underneath the fiberglass on which it is mounted:
The second time on the beach, this was no problem anymore. However, the need of making a turn at approximately 50 km/h showed me that my rear wheels are not strong enough. The rivets cracked, the outside plate came loose and one half of the cycle-rim didn't stay on it's place:
Clearly, some redesign is needed. I am thinking of building my wheel in the way that Vic shows on the following link:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/My-New-26-Carbon-Fiber-Land-Yacht-Wheel-Video/#1244482
I think the key thing is to make the connection between the two parts of the bicycle rim much stronger, connect it on more places and use more rivets. Furthermore, I should definitely try to make a flange to improve the gluing surface for the second side plate of the wheel, as Paul already suggested.
Vic, how thick is the aluminum strip you bend to the inside of the bicycle rims? And is this now the most current and best way of building the rear wheels, or is there even a better way to do it?
Cheers,
Stephan
Hi Bernhard,
I never tried it myself, but acoording to Gizmo (www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/General/New-Type-of-LandYacht/) wire spokes don't work well on landyachts due to the side force. Too big side forces is probably also what my wheels couldn't handle.
I'm also not sure about the axles, because too thin axles break easily on land yachts. What is the diameter of the axles? On the first page of this thread it is suggested that axles with a diameter of 20 mm are adequate for class 5 and that is also what I use. I think I have seen that some people run 17 mm axles, but they are a bit more fragile.
Stephan
Hi Stephan
They are my current wheels used them for over a season now, They are nearly bomb proof. The aluminium strip is 75mm wide.
My axles are 3/4". I use 40mmOD x3/4"ID bearings. Have not had an axle or bearing failure since going to that size
Cheers
vic
Hi Stephan,
the original axle is only 8 mm, but I found a way to put 12 mm axle in it.
I used a 10.9 V4A bolt.
Also my idea was to get a wheel with 144 spokes and it seems to be very stabil.
I will try this first, otherwise i found MTB wheels with a 20 mm axle, but they are not very cheap.
I will let you know
Best regards
Bernhard
I thought it was getting time to re-invent the wheel, so here we are. I was made aware of a webshop where I found 26" rims with a width of 80 mm and a double wall for a reasonable price (+/- € 40,- each), so that saves me the time of building a copy of Vic's rim
My build process is shown in the following image
1. Disasembling the old wheels. I re-used the outside disc, the spokes, the hub and the tires off course.
2. Clamped a beam to a table, so I could make a flange on the spokes for the last outside disc to be glued on.
3. Made the well-known grooves in the rim and glued the rim onto the first outside plate. After this, I glued the hub to the side plate and put one layer of 450 g/m2 randomly distributed mats on the inside of the rim to glue the rim better onto the outside disc and to have a surface to glue the spokes to.
4. Added the spokes. The following image shows how I fastened the spokes
I put a single layer of 450 g/m2 randomly distributed mats on the following places (see image):
1. inbetween each pair of spokes, glueing them onto the hub
2 & 3. On the corners between the spokes and the rim on both sides of the spokes
4. on the corners between the spokes and the outside disc, on one side only, the opposing side of the flanges for the second disc.
My question is whether this way of glueing the spokes into the wheel should be sufficient so I can close the wheel now with the second disc, or that I need to add some more mats? What did you do with your wheels that have shown to work?
Stephan
This is a great thread! these wheels I think would work excellent for your application, They can handle massive side load, I run them straight up on my buggy :) discwheels.wordpress.com/ul-wheel-nabx/
before recycling any bits from your wheels i would consider not doing that
visually the fibreglassing looking to be very poor. probably from wrong technique
to me it looks like thelayup was resin poor and very poorly compacted.
when i lay up chopped strand firstly I brush on some resin to the surface , then on with the first layer of mat. then start rolling with your 12mm ribbed roller. add more resin if dry spots occur, lay on next layer of mat. roll in adding small amounts of resin if needed, add 3rd lay etc.
your lay up just doesnt look right. .
keep in mind some of have had a decade or 2 practice bEFORE laying up a wheel, so 10 points for your efforts so far
what do other more experienced glassers think of his lay up
I am afraid it is a bit late to change the whole procedure, since I am almost finished with the wheels again. I will be using them as they are and see how they do. Probably in a month I will be on the beach again, so see what happens.
If indeed my technique for the glass fiber is insufficient, I will need to start all over with at least the wheels and perhaps the seat as well. But that brings me then to this question; what is the proper way of using glass fiber? I did not use any roller, solely a cheap paint brush that I disposed every time after it became too stiff from the resin. I don't know even where to buy a ribbed roller, at least I didn't see them at the DIY store (but probably if I search the internet, I will find a place). What is the best way to clean a brush/roller after use so it doesn't become too stiff from the resin after a single use?
But for example, making the spokes or the wheel discs. How do you determine how many layers of mats you are going to use and from which density? And then the procedure, like do you let the resin dry before adding a new layer? Or do you add all layers directly on each other, one after another at the same afternoon or so? Also for the seat, I put the mats all on the mold end then started glassing. I was not fully satisfied with the result. How should one do that? Wax the mold so the resin will not stick to it and then adding small pieces of mat after each other? Also everything in one afternoon, or letting it dry in between? And if so, do you first sand before adding a new layer, or treat the surface in a different way?
What do others think of it?
Hi Stephan. As nobody has replied yet about the glassing process I will add my little bit of knowledge.
The roller is simple, just cut a piece of 10mm threaded rod about 75mm long as the roller and drill a 3mm hole into the ends about 5mm deep. Then bend a bit of 3mm fence wire into a "U shape 75mm wide and turn 10mm of each end inwards at 90 degree as axles and fit to the threaded rod just as if it is a paint roller handle with axles. The whole idea is that the roller rotates and presses the resin into the glass and pushes the air out so you get a thin layer of fibre and only use a small amount of resin. Same thing happens by dabbing it with a paint brush but the roller presses the glass as a thinner layer with only a little resin. Strength of the whole glassing job lies in the amount of glass fibre and not the resin. Resin by itself is quite brittle and weak. So the best result is in how any layers of glass you can press together with a minimum of binding resin. If the first layers of resin goes to jelly it does not matter, just continue on, next lot will adhere ok. Don't mix too much resin at one time, mix only enough in stages or it will go off and turn to jelly before you can use it.
Clean up brushes and roller with Acetone before it hardens. There is also a liquid which can wash out the resin but I cannot remember it's name. Easier to buy very cheap brushes and toss them away. How many layers or thickness to use???? I leave that to the more experienced.
Have all the required fibre panels pre-cut and ready to go, then do all the glassing in the one session before the resin cures hard. Paint on a layer of resin over the mould, add a layer of glass fibre and squeeze the resin in with the roller until it goes clear, then another layer of glass and roller wet the glass as before. Only add more resin if the roller does not wet the glass fibre as you build up layer thickness. Definitely do not put all the layers of dry fibre down and then try to roller the resin in. If not possible to do the complete job in one session then wait for the resin to cure hard and glassy and thoroughly sand the surface before laying more layers on. New polyester resin on un-scoured cured resin will not bond very well because there are no fibres joining the two layers and will break away. Epoxy resin is not so fussy about the sanding requirement for extra layers as is polyester resin.
The mould should have been waxed and then painted with a water based releasing agent. If you have been glassing over styrene foam as for a seat and wish to remove the foam it will dissolve in petrol very quick. When buying polyester resin make sure it isn't old, it has a short life. Test a mixture first, old stuff takes a long time to harden and maybe not at all.
Hope that helps a bit, it's not rocket science, you will quickly become an expert.....Wok
Select to expand quoteElLobo said..
Hi Stephan,
the original axle is only 8 mm, but I found a way to put 12 mm axle in it.
I used a 10.9 V4A bolt.
Also my idea was to get a wheel with 144 spokes and it seems to be very stabil.
I will try this first, otherwise i found MTB wheels with a 20 mm axle, but they are not very cheap.
I will let you know
Best regards
Bernhard
There have been failures of 17mm axles on class 5 here in New Zealand
20mm has to the best of my knowledge been fine and is the most used
whatever size is used spacers are important with the nut done up tight as that effectively
enlarges the axle
I have used 17mm with spacers in the past without problems but I
would not use less than 20mm on the rear now if building new whether class5 or mini
If you cant get a 20mm bolt, use 20mm tube with a snug fit bolt(high tensile) through the middle
20mm shaft with a short piece of tube welded on for a collar and the end tapped for a piece of 10 mm threaded rod to take a nyloc nut and washer has become my standard now
I use plastic conduit to the right length for bearing spacers
Has worked fine with no failures
Just to add my little knowledge:
Very old Class 5 and Class Standard had 15mm axles, ( limited diameter of bearing hub?) on 17" cycle-wheels.
Some Bolts seem to last for 30 years, bearing fit on cast Aluminium suffers from use.
Newer rims for Standard (Sysmic) are 20mm.
Joe
I would bend 15mm bolts every sail these days. all my yachts are 20mm except our 3 seater which is 22mm
the wheels that I mentioned earlier in this artical have now run 3 seasons without any sign of damage, guess I have finally got it right
Well, then I guess that you did a better job then I did. I have brought my land yacht to the beach three times for sailing now, and all three times I had a wheel-failure. My aluminum hub that is glassed in at the center of the wheel is coming loose every time, I have repaired it twice and have the same problem again. I think that a flange on both sides of the hub could solve the problem, however since I finished studying I don't have access to a lathe anymore. I think I will have to look for buying a set of wheels.
Does anyone know where I can look best for those wheels (and are available (close to) the Netherlands)? I actually only know Airtrack, but I cannot find a website of it that works, and Seagull, but I can't find any 26" wheels there.
Next to that my aluminum rear-axles are bend, so I will need a bigger wall thickness for them, or put an extra tube inside it. Finally, I had a flat tire on the beach. I repaired it and could go on, but at the land yacht club they told me that for sailing on beaches one should really use tubeless tires, since the shells are sharp and with tubes in the tires, you will have a lot flat tires. That's another thing I have to work on.
Not sure about the tubeless tyres advice The shells on our beaches are I am sure as sharp as anywhere
and we all run with tubes Tubes can vary in thickness and quality a bike shop should be able to advise you
Recently I had an aluminium centre hub come loose I think I didn't rough the aluminium up enough for the bond
I use epoxy resin on these hubs rare to have a failure
I grove my hubs and then wrap them in glass tape, never had a failure it that area yet. As for tires I use 21 inch motor cycle tubes in my hookworms, have not had a puncture in 4 seasons, (Lake Walyungup is notorious for punctures due to a spiky plant that grows there , causes a lot of punchers in wheel barrow tires)
