I've been lucky enough to blag this from the undergrowth at the local Land Yachting Club (I think). You'll notice that there's a bit or two missing. This is hopefully going to be a budget build and will be used at the local club at Elvington Airfield, York, UK so will spend most of it's time on concrete. I've got no history for it so don't know how old or how it was set up.
Q1. Wheels. I think the fork is set up for a 16" BMX wheel as the forks are 105mm apart at the bottom, 95mm at the yoke and 254mm axle to yoke (with 10mm gap for the axle). The wheelbase is 2450mm but the rear is only 1380mm wide so I guess it's been cut. The rear is set at 10 degrees. Should I build axles like the Pacific Magic and drop/use upside down to use 4.00x8s and get some ground clearance... or extend the existing rear out to get close to 2000mm and use 125cc motorbike wheels with slicks again on PM axles? (Using on a Airfield/Motorbike Race circuit)
Q2. Pacific Magic or Clemco mast...or windsurfer.
Q3. What rigging set up should I use? Theres an eye at the mast foot and a bolt hole where the black sponge is, and thats it. That should do for now.
Cheers Col
The Fork
If it were me; plan 'A' would be talk to someone at the club re. your questions. Its one thing to know what to do but as helpful again is to know where you can source materials, which the club should be able to help you with.
For plan 'B' I would have a go at making a pair of axles to suit 4.00x8 wheelbarrow wheels (good for the budget), like the Promo class yachts use. I would be dodgy and use steel tube of appropriate size (others may gasp at you not using alloy though). As for mast I would (at first) use a windsurfer mast with another sleeved inside plus a stiffener in the base (just my guess, I've never actually sailed/built a class 5 machine).
Just my two cents to hopefully get the ball rolling for you 
Nice find and Good luck!
I think what youve got there is a "plume,"(french) with an early "echo"front end by MIke hampton. kind of 1987/8 mash up .
I would try and track down a set of 24" alloy moped wheels that have been modified for landyachts at that time. . there would surely be some around if you found that chassis. the mast set up is there all ready to go. there should be 2 plates with a pin hole at the base under the "sling", and the front does sound 16"
I would chase some original alloys first as fitting w/b wheels could be a hassle.
do the rear axles slide out or are they fixed in?
Thanks for that guys....expect more questions to follow, with boring regularity! lachlan3556 - parts for this will be reasonable to find I guess. The UK is a bit odd these days in that it's hard to find anything cheap/discarded/on a dump! As usual, blagging and fleabay will be my friend.
Landyacht - it was dragged out from brambles under a bush, it is even visible on Google Earth it's been there that long! And its been stripped for spares for something, but what I'm not sure as so far I've only seen 'over the counter' yachts at York, though I remember seeing some using Honda Comstar wheels about 20yrs ago when I was with the motorbike racing. What wheel mods are needed? I was thinking a dust seal of sorts and a GRP cover at least on one side to stop me mashing my hands in a 'prang'. A bit of digging has shown that a 20" wheel on a cycle means 20" inc the tyre so I'll go for that to get the thicker spindle. There's no plates or holes at the mast base but that can be cured. And the axles should come out with gentle persuasion!
Cheers Col
I had the same trouble finding wheels so I ended up making my own, They are a lot easier to make than I thought they would be. Most important thing is to use epoxy resins. www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/Class-Five-Design/?page=5
cheers
aus230
is there some kind of hole through the mast base upright that would have held a base that could be adjustedfor mast rake?
AUS 230 wheel building system may be a good option, but back then they used to get 19"? moped wheels(24"bike tyres) and machine out the centresto take a bearing with a 16mm shaft. these days they tend to use a 20mm shaft
Nope. Nothing that useful! There's the adjustment bolt at the front through the tube, the swivelling mast strap thingy, and the previous user would appear to have sat the mast on top of the chassis tube on a layer of silicone mastic!?!
A very good system.....but not one I'd want to risk my ham-fisted GRp techniques on, with failure causing my derriere to travel up an abrasive runway at x mph! Glad you mentioned the shaft size as I was about to just use the original motorbike spindle (12mm) albeit fully surrounded by larger dia spacers for its full length so it should be subjected to shear rather than bending(as much as poss'). I was looking at extending the tubes out from 690 to 875 to get a width of approx 1900mm. Using Honda Sky or Scoopy front wheels (16" with 80/80/16 tyres) as they're about £10 (15 AUD) and then the spindles would sit above the tubes like the Pacific Magic ones to get the main chassis tube level..... am I looking at a bum/runway inface with this? 
Cheers Col
Glad you lot are out there stimulating the grey matter. Honda Sky uses a 15mm dia spindle which means a wheel bearing type 6202....theres a 6003 according to my handbook which is the same od with a bore of 17mm only 1mm thinner so it would just mean spinning up a new spacer on the lathe.
Cheers Col
The 17mm axle would want to be made of good matierial and done up tight on spacers 20mm would be better in my opinion for a class5 size yacht
if your only on bitumenyou could get awaywith 17mm, as you wont have the slamming creeks to cross. can you put up some better photos of that mast step?
There you go. Mast pocket as requested - suggestions please? The chassis without all the other bits in the way. And one tiny corner of one of the runways at Elvington with me grinning like an idiot, having loaned the Clubs Seagull MC2 to learn in. Its a strange surface as it grips like crazy...even in the wet. Downside to it is when we were club racing motorcycles there years ago, it ruined the profile of tyres rapidly due to the grip. Planes still land on it occasionly and there's the odd speed record attempt there so it's not that rough....though it is where Top Gears Richard Hammond flipped the rocket car! Hey ho. Also could this chassis be a Kirrawee?
Cheers Col
I reckon there is a long missing piece that acted a s a mast base and was adjusted with a bolt through that mast step.
I would have a serious look inside the chassis tubes for internal rust underneathwhere the welds are.
whats a kirrawee
Thanks again. I can tell theres bits missing from the mast step, as bedding the mast base on silicone mastic cannot be a normal thing! The bolt through at the base of the upright has a nicely done dome end which fitted something thats not there anymore. And I'm sure the original design didn't involve the car body filler. Any pointers to what was there so I can fire up the welder and make a new one?
Luckily the metal work has been treated to a coat of Zinc 182 then paint over the top of the original powder coat. The inside has been Wax-oiled!! The lot had then been sealed up with silicone mastic....which meant its taken 2 days to remove 1 bolt (bent & rusty) and both axle tubes (alright I was watching an Aussie come 3rd in the F1, 1st in the Moto GP, and win the Tour De France as well (not the same one)) which were shoved in right to the middle and distorted by the clamping/holding bolts. Upshot is, years of sitting outside, wrapped in brambles...no real rust.
A Kirrawee is www.landyachting.co.uk/range.htm . Apparently the original owner is now in NZ. But theres odd bits that look similar(ish).
Cheers Col
Still gathering bits up, and progress has definitely been a two steps forward, one back affair. 17mm axle with M16 thread, and the wheel spacers (internal and external) has been todays job. Just need cutting to length and an end welding on followed by a bit of heat treatment.
Honda Sky wheel with new 17mm i/d precision bearings instead of the original 10mm i/d. Reasonable Michelin 2.5 x 16. £10 each wheel (Aus $15) all inc.
New front wheel. All the second hand ones are snapped up by community cycle projects apparently.
Beefed up top and bottom yoke as the extreme angle, no bearing spacer, seized bearings and a bit of bad design had opened up the holes to a weird oval shape.
Rear axle mounts next and new axle tubes at the right length to give me roughly 2m width. Learn fibre-glassing. And wonder what the hell to do with the windsurf sail I've just acquired for £1.20 (Aus $1.88) off Fleabay - only 9m
Cheers Col
(off to get my second signature for my log book and a step nearer my licence in the morning)
Oooooh! Italian Rims.. What are you building????? A Maserati??
I'm just a Mug Builder but you seem to be doing fine. No one can help you with the Sail if we can't see it.. Lay it out on the Lawn and Snap a couple of pic's. There are enough experienced people on the forum to give you guidance, colk.
Lookin' Good.
Ron
Your front wheel looks like a mongoose 20 inch same as I have on my Class 5
has been fine for me You may want to consider fitting plastic or alum discs to those rear wheels as a safety measure to guard against sheet ropes and limbs
Your project looks very worthwhile and you should end up with a good yacht there
Thanks guys. Always good to hear that you're heading in the right direction. Steel and ally stock is proving to be a problem in the UK. No metric sizes so everythings imperial and an exact fit to the next size up (or it would be if tolerances didn't make things worse).
Ron - soon as it arrives on my doorstep, I'll whack a photo in the sails section. I guess there will be plenty to go at! But it might not be an issue as amongst other things, I've found out today is a) my teacher at the club is now the Class 5 BFSLYC National Champion, b) he has an experimental double sail that I can halve again and fit a mast pocket to, each half being a class 5 sail...photo to go in sails when that turns up, c) 60kph feels like 60mph and a big sail might be stupid at my skill level!!
Cheers Col
(also learnt that helmets are good at stopping boom damage (from my head), trousers can get stuck in blocks at crutch level, and if the sail comes off the top of the mast and slides down a bit, theres no amount of letting ropes out that stops it being a sail and you can't see )
colk,
That is the "J" curve of learning... Down Hill until you get it all together then it is "All Good" just as long as you don't get badly hurt in the beginning.. Yeah ! That Sail Top thing is a right pain in the Butt. The method I'm using isn't, good as the Mast extension I use keeps punching through and letting the sail slip down.
Sounds like you have a few people onside, up there, willing to help. It is all good.
You will find that Paul can help you get the "Luff Pocket" correctly shaped and it is all in the Sails section anyway.
Good Lad "Keep going for it"
Ron
Little bit further on. Both axle mounts made using the Pacific Magic design... sort of. My usual pigeon dropping welding - which so far always works. I think a new welder with a few extra amps (and better quality) is needed next year though.
Cheers Col
colk,
I am going to get Poo poo'd for this but I have used both MIG and Stick welders and prefer the Stick welder to MIG but think the MIG is better suited to thin tube and sheet metals. To my way of thinking Stick offers deeper Penetration as in all good sex Oops sorry about that MIG seems to me to rely on the strength of weld material. To qualify my words, I should think the Heavier Units would offer a better Penetration of the stock material.
Thems is my feelings and I will stick to them, mind you it takes a bit of skill to use a Stick Welder well.
Ron
I also prefer the stick welder I think its more versatile for small jobs
Its good if you can get get your hands on a variety of rods to try though as some rods suit some welding machines [and welders ] better than others I think
Hiko,
I would be inclined to stick to a Stick Welder for Sheet Metal as well if only we could get thinner Sticks 2 or 2.5mm if still a bit heavy. For my skills anyway.
Ron
I found using 1.5mm rods on 1.6mm wall tube were a bit hot and blew holes in the material.
Really hard to control the arc with thinner rods because of their flex.
I got good results using 2mm rods.
If I was doing enough light gauge welding to warrant the expence of bottle hire, I would much prefer oxy/acetylene welding. The heat does spread more but the result is very neat.
Well, sorry to be the odd man out, but I have had great luck with a MIG welder on all sorts of metals; both thick and thin. I have a very rough time with the stick welders. I think it's all about experience with your equipment. One day many years ago, I bought the MIG welder, and just kept at it until I got comfortable with it. Because I haven't used the stick welder, (same machine, just different holders, etc) my welding sucks when I use it.
Don't give up on the MIG, if you want or need to use it, or any other type of welder, just KEEP AT IT!!! Most current welders are great, and can weld well on anything they are designed to weld.
Cisco you would enjoy TIG welding I know I do
Sort of similar to gas welding but without the spread of heat problem
I have the gear for it but the argon bottle hireage is a turn off
Problem I've got is the old (15yrs) SIP Migmate was the best I could afford at the time but is getting a bit cranky and with 80amps max and a duty cycle that fades quickly is hard pushed on thick stock. Just not enough umph.
Think thats the difference, a bottom of the range MIG is doing more things than a bargain basement stick plant, so is probably built down to the price. Wish I could afford to go to TIG.... but I would have thought brazing would be the best thing for land yachts.
Cheers Col
80 amps is a little low for the thicker metal. The one I bought is a 250 amp model, and can be turned down low enough to weld sheet metal. TIG is tricky too, but the welds can look great if ya practice enough. Also no splatter..
There you go then.. Sorry Col but Cheap is as cheap does. I am 66 and have learned the hard way, that look at your present requirement then double it go without a few beers or a party or three and invest the extra $$ in bigger and better (Preferably Better) try thinking for the future. If I am purchasing an Electric Drill I am inclined to look at RYOBI and the Cheaper brands then say to myself stuff it buy a Mikita or De Walt they will out last you and Trav' will use them when I can no longer use them. Wasting money on a cheaper unit is False Economy. Don't go over board though and by a $10,000 Commercial Unit though
.
Ron
