Hey Everyone.
I'm part of a team of engineering students from the university of Western Australia. We're working with Dreamfit to design and produce land yachts for people with disabilities.
We're constructing two land yachts, one that is usable for a paraplegic, and one for quadriplegics. Both will be two seaters. We have only ten weeks to build them and a tight budget, but we'll have professionals and industry experts to help us with construction and design.
For landsailing expertise, we come to you.
The wealth of information on this forum has been of invaluable help to us already. I was hoping you could share your experiences to help us a little further.
To begin with, rather than reinventing the wheel we'd like to modify an existing design, although our budget requires us to build it from scratch. So if any of you have plans or blueprints (even of one-seaters), we'd greatly appreciate it if you shared them. Also any design quirks or notable innovations you've noticed from existing land yachts.
Other than that, we'd appreciate any advice, suggestions, encouragement, cautionary tales, or anything you think could be valuable or helpful.
Thanks a million in advance, and thanks for the great info you've already provided.
Landyacht for paraplegics?? Blokart have already done it and for two people.
Quadraplegics? They will have to be passengers with a paraplegic pilot.
Ask the bloke here:- http://www.blokart.com/#MapFrame
or better still here:-www.blokart.com.au/
I am sure he will have all the answers to your questions and be more than willing help you to the utmost of his ability.
Seems that a Goole search or any other internet search on landyachting pops this forum up. Maybe it is the rite site.
Dig deep enough here and you will find the gold.
Speaking of rites, I have heard there is a particular cult of Land Sailors that participte in a nite rite of a particularly hedonistic nature only open to graduates of LLFUOLS (Le Fools). Beware of cults. They are dangerous.
So, as I was saying, all the information you need is on this site if you are willing to dig for it.
I have given you two directions in which to look but I am not going to do your work for you.
Why are all these university lecturers choosing "land sailing for the disabled" as an assignment topic??
Why can't they pick something more practical like "build a better mouse trap"?
Hey!.....Hey!....three cheers for the team. Its a good thing you do
Richard I will PM you
Gidday Dreamfitmob,
Cisco isnt being mean- its just that we seem to get a continual stream of uni students from all over the world jumping onto this site, waving thier banner telling us of thier intentions- and expecting us to do everything for them!
It wears a bit thin after a while.
The plans for the worlds best home built, easy to transport and assemble landyacht are on this site (the Lake Lefroy Mini Landyacht)
It has been developed into a 2 seater as well by one of our members.
How you go about building to suit para and quadraplegic sailors will to a large extent depend on the extent of each persons injury.
Do you set up so the wheelchair is lowered and secured into the landyacht frame after removing the wheelchair wheels?
You will probably be needing a crane assembly- but at least they already fit the seat.
Or do you crane the person directly into the landyacht?
I would be aiming towards a wider and stronger version of a lefroy, regular seat one side, bracketry to secure stripped down wheelchair on the other.
Hand controls similar to Blokart but with uni joint at the base so it can be used from either side.
Then the option of small electric winch for sheet rope, or split steering and sheeting between the two on board.
Please- do a bit of homework and think about what you need, we dont mind helping out- but we expect you to help yourself first!
As a side note, my Lefroy Mini Landyacht has been hijacked by Mercy College as a class of thier year 12 students are about to start building 5 Lefroy Mini's for themselves.
If you want to have a look at it, and possibly work alongside them to build yours- send me a P.M.
The dream fit crew are a great bunch of people. They spent some time at the sandgropers last season. Please give them all the help/advice you can as it is a very worthy cause and they have already done some great work. Check out there site
Cheers
cptech.com.au/
the need to fit a somebody from a wheelchair gives some opportunities for a complete rethink. I wouldnt try to adapt an existing design. I would suggest you expend the miniyacht wheelbase up to 1800mm wide and 2000mm long , then build a chariot style set up where the pilot could wheel straight into the back of the yacht. this would also give the person the sense of "I am in charge".
i have seen a similar thing like this done locally with a 100cc scooter, so it isa very possible and practical idea.
If youd like to discuss the idea further send a PM by clicking the right icon above my post and we can then swap email adresses so I can send drawings etc
cheers Paul
wasn't there some Gun who developed a wheel chair, carrying [piggyback]
somewhere back in the forum?. A fair amount of discussion too..
My apologies for any sharpness in my post but as sn said:-
"Cisco isnt being mean- its just that we seem to get a continual stream of uni students from all over the world jumping onto this site, waving thier banner telling us of thier intentions- and expecting us to do everything for them!
It wears a bit thin after a while."
I wish you all the best in your endeavours and confirm that you have come to the right place.
Land sailing is the extreme sport that just about anybody can do and once you have had a lick of the ice cream, you will want more.
could you please give us a set of dimensions for the most common type of wheel chair you might use as a paraplegic. That way I can sort through my stockpile of wheelchairs for a "common fit "type , and start to build something around that.
that way I can test my ideas before making the suggestion to others.
It also means at least 2 wheelchair landyachts, and 2 yachts is a race
..............and yes I actually have a stockpile of wheelchairs for this very purpose
Excellent advice guys, thanks a million.
Cisco- it did not occur to me that you get this all the time.I can definitely see why this would get tiresome after a while, and if I'd known I would have phrased it differently. Rest assured that we're going to make this happen, and we are by no means afraid of hard work, or researh for that matter. Still, time and resources are limited, and every little bit helps. Paraplegics, as you say, should be easy enough to design for, as thats no new invention, but as for quadriplegics, we certainly want them to be more than just passengers.
Sn and landyacht- At this stage we're not trying to incorporate the wheelchair into the design, but I like your ideas, and I'll pass them along to the team. Landyacht's chariot idea is actually quite similar Dreamfit's quadriplegic motorcycle, which has the chariot as a sidecar, and a joystick controlling the bike's functions. So it's definitely doable. In fact the more I think about it, the better I like the idea.
Thanks a million for all your help guys. As we progress I'll post about it. We'll see how it goes!
There's a wide choice, you can start from keeping it simple (sorry, very low res)
From what I've seen, people with disabilities usually sail - and race - quite comfortable yacht like manta twin or blokart.
One suggestion can be to contact the French Federation, they've gone very far with handysport http://www.ffcv.org/view.php?node=316
www.handisport-nature.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=35
Hope it can help
Cheers - Enrico
And with the help of Google Translate...
(just copy and paste the above links into the tanslate box... )
translate.google.com/
Got to love GOOGLE 
Quadriplegics offer a very complex and possibly an expensive problem, how ever Para's should be easier to deal with at this point. I would suggest something like
Schrodinger's Cat as it would be far easier to access for a person that has no or little use of their legs. Steering could be altered to a system similar to Blow Carts/Hand Steering which leaves the Sheet control which is either done as set and forget, which is OK in lighter winds or Hand held by one hand and steering with the other, which I would suggest will require an upgrade of the Paraplegic Pilots Ambidextrous Skills. As little practice and I think a Paraplegic with a little Daring-do would give a fully functional Pilot a Run For His Money. Primarily keeping the C of G low of a Land Yacht for the Incapacitated and Ease of Access should be kept in mind when designing.
Though Enrico is offering encouragement I am not to impressed with the vehicle as the vehicle is too high and I think a bit on the flimsy side. I see no reason that Pauls LLM couldn't be altered to suit the purpose of disabled people.
The disabled could also use a Blow Cart for that matter, however that type of machine may present accessing difficulties but Blow Carts don't require the feet for anything but bracing the body and I think that perhaps one would be seated too upright depending on the reason for Paraplegia??
Ron
DreamFitTeam
You might want to take a look at this ,
I would have thought a seat at similar height to a wheelchair would be advantageous, a low slung yacht may be difficult to get in out of. (even a Blokart might be a bit low for some)
Having seen people getting in and out of sailability water yachts with a small crane or a group of assistants is not good for a persons dignity, after all they just want to do activities like able bodied people.
A very reclined seat may also problematic with lack of neck support.
The previous Youtube clip shows the person entering the yacht and the removal of the mast support bar, the Lefroy Mini design doesn't have that problem.
As Nikrum mentioned the stability of a yacht... this can be improved in several ways like,
1. using a lower aspect ratio rig
2. a softer mast with more flex than carbon fibre which will be easier to sail for a newcomer.
3. increase the length and or width of yacht, increase the length for a smoother more controllable ride, increasing just the width will make the yacht twitchy in puffy winds and not very predictable.
4. use a fuller sail rather than flat, this will keep the speed down and work better in lower wind speeds.
I would have thought the persons dignity is of paramount importance....
Gizmo,
I am inclined to agree with you on the dignity side. There fore I think that depending on the ability and determination of the individual sailing LY's can vary from something Screaming Disabled to almost Hey guys ain't nuthin' wrong with me. I get the idea that if a person with none functioning legs is willing to "'ave a go" then there is going to be a certain determination to go with them.
Years ago my wife and I worked with the Intellectually Disabled. People regardless of political correctness etc tend to think that these people are Dummies. I was that way until I met JJ. After awhile a problem showed up amongst the Clients; On the Societies vehicle was a LOGO, a Simple Stick Person with a Large Astrix above the head. It seems the problem came from the clients, they didn't like the LOGO primarily because of the ASTRIX. They were aware of the implications! Dummies?? I think not.
If dignity is a big part of what is to be done then as close to normal as possible should be taken into account. Also keep in mind CofG the higher or more upright the Pilot sits the higher the CofG and greater the inclination of the vehicle to be dropped on it's side. The best think that can be done in design is take all designs available think of the clients ability and also keep the individual in the loop/involved. Get them to bounce their ideas off of you. Great things can be achieved with communication and cooperation.
I like the Blowies Idea as a first base thing but I do have a problem with the mast brace around the legs. Crash and bruise. Drop on the side and trapped.
That is way I suggested the simple frame like the Schrodingers Cat, not because I built it. We learn as we go apply those lessons and then some for those with walking difficulties and also keep in mind many of them will be satisfied to potter about and enjoy the freedom of movement but there are those Loonies like us Old Farts that will go outright to break Speed Records and "Bloody Well G'don'm"
Ron
PS; Like the rest of us these people want to be safe, have fun but do not need to be mollycoddled, Get them involved with their own futures.
