Making a Fiber Glass Seat

Ok! iand, It seems that given my test piece on Chopped Fiber Mat and the Graphs I think I can't be too far of the mark. Being as I have all the products at hand and the Wax, Flowcoat and PVA due to arrive early next week I haven't got much choice anyway.
Landyacht said in an earlier post that i only have a couple of hours to lay up the whole thing???
1. Is it a prerequisite to lay a job up in one hit??
2. The rollers used to compact the mat and Resin. Are they a plain metal roller or is there anything special about their design?? (have made a simple Roller from a piece of Chromed Brass tubing)
Ron

Is it a prerequisite to lay a job up in one hit??-simple, yes and no
yes-if using waxed polyester resin otherwise you need to sand between coats
no-if using unwaxed polyester resin, under 24hours between coats
no-if using epoxy resin
but maximum strength is achieved in a single layup in all cases
flowcoat polyester is waxed
gelcoat polyester is unwaxed
one of the things you need to remember is the type of construction and material you're using don't utilize the advantages of epoxy and won't see the increase in strength that is possible with epoxy, if you do more seats in this way I would use polyester or vinylester. Epoxy comes into its own when using alternative techniques that use cloth, kevlar or carbonfibre. Epoxy is the last choice when doing a solid chopped mat construction and in general is used where you minimize the resin you use, as opposed to chopped mat which in a way utilizes the resin as a packer to achieve a thickness that gives you sufficient strength.

K1W1307
Hey! Keep yer Hair on. Shees! I think you had best ort go back over the thread and reread it.I made no such Statement nor did I suggest you "Don't know what you are talking about" I simply stated;
1. that I have done a test patch and it worked, as far as the eye can tell.
2. I had the audacity to think Fiber Glassing was a simple straight forward process.
3. Providing that one follows a series of steps one should be able complete a simple
Seating arrangement without too much trouble.
4. I had purchased certain fiber Glassing Materials before I learned that I shouldn't
use Chopped Strand Mat with Epoxy. Funny thing is I also have been talking
to a sail maker who is doing this stuff as well. He seemed to think that
providing I use the products being aware of the pitfalls and take particular
care there shouldn't be too many problems. If you wish to enlighten me with
Your views the info would be taken into account.

5. I am sorry if I offended your sensibilities. Dang! K1W1's. You guys haven't
changed one bit in 30 years. Is it the old NZ-Aus' Rivalry or what??

I tried, without success to start a War with Scotland and failed miserably and now it looks like I have accidently caused one between Aus and N Z. I lived over there for 10years only ever got into one fight and that was against a thief. I Married a north island girl, that has been an ongoing war for 37years but we survive each others foibles.
I shall state hear and now for any and all readers that " I read and absorb any and all info given me. I do not care if the author has built Inter Stellar transports or has only (Like Myself) Just started out. Everyone's experience and opinion is valid, unless proven otherwise. I trawl the info and glean the best path under the circumstances to suit my purpose. "No one is 100% right, that also includes me. However you will never hear me admit to that statement in the future I should note that if I tell any one they are "Talking outa their BUTT" That is precisely what they will see or hear. I write as you read it Do Not Read Between the Lines as you will no doubt find cause f to be insulted.
Ron

Not offended at all. You asked for advice which was given, and then appear to not take too much of it on board, hence the reaction.
To re-iterate, epoxy is a high class product (and a pain in the ass to work with cos it does not go off for hours) and CSM is the lowest grade glass that money can buy.
It's a bit like spending money on having the best engine you can afford to have built for you, and then running it on the lowest possible grade of petrol.
I will be contrary to Iand too, I work VERY hard to have good resin to glass ratios and polyester is NOT (in my opinion) a "padding material". Easy way to check this is see how easy it is to break the cured resin out of your mixing pots. You don't use straight cement with no aggregate, and where the reinforcing steel is needed you use it. Think of your resin as the cement (not the complete concrete mix) and the cloth etc as the aggregate and the steel.
Nikrum, I think you have a mismatch of ingredients on their way to you. Flowcoat (a polyester product) is what you would use on the INSIDE of your finished seat, ie the opposite side to the mould. (Flowcoat will not bond properly to epoxy either!) Waxed because polyester does not completely cure unless sealed from the air, which is what the wax does. If you want that seperately is comes in a sloution with monomerstyrene, or you add a few drops of wax solution to your unwaxed product.
You mention wax, is this release wax or wax for resin? Two entirely different products.
I don't know your Epigen, so won't comment except to say there are different materials for laminating/bonding/mould made products. In my opinion a landyacht seat, especially a mini does not justify anything except polyester for the final product. If you have used any polystyrene foam for the "plug" you need to make sure that it is totally sealed before any polyester product gets near it.
Glassing is very easy, making the decisions on the materials and their uses is the only difficult bit. If you want to get high strength to weight then this becomes an area of a lot of research (otherwise know as mistakes!)

Kiwi307,
That is good to hear. The written word is a dubious method of communication at the best of times. Too easy to misunderstand, then the Spoken word via electronics, this method is only a little better than the written. Damn! Even a direct face to face one on one conversation can be fraught with misunderstanding Given the State of today English and the way it is taught..

Believe me I have read what you and all others have said. Like I said I can only work with the products I have and make the best of a bad situation Hopefully I'll not have a situation such as Landyacht's I'd hate to have my Butt dragged across a salt Pan
The pain would be bad enough but the Embarrassment would be unbearable.

I can understand Epoxy being hard to deal with because of it's hardening time, horizontal surfaces are one thing Perpendicular???

Now for a direct question; If I Add extra hardener/part B will that set it off quicker than usual and will it weaken the seat??
Ron

I laugh because life is a joke, a bad joke at times, and if I don't laugh I will cry and MEN don't cry.

I'm pretty sure the general rule of thumb for setting time for epoxies is it will halve for every 10deg above 25deg. ie 24h cure will cure in 12h at 35deg, 6h at 45deg, and 3h at 55deg. However this will reduce the strength, (by how much depends on the specific epoxy). This is certainly the case the the encapsulating epoxies I work with, I assume the same is for fiberglass resins. We often rapid cure epoxies at 50-55deg in our lab when in a hurry. (and the other components can handle it)

Thanks guys,
OK! Given that I have Epoxy Resin, 3oz Woven cloth, CGM (Waxy texture) 2" Glass Woven Tape, Release Wax, Flowcoat and PVE. I am told that I have a total miss mach of materials. Every one so far seems to have only used Polyester for these projects. Sort of leaves me out in the cold, don't you think??? Keep in mind, everybody, that I started getting this stuff together before I had any advice. It would seem that instructions and descriptions from sales people are enough to get one in really deep, probably just below the bottom lip and the waves are getting bigger.
Just maybe I should go get a plastic deck chair and tie it on with a bit of bailing twine??
What happens if I just forge ahead with what I have?? I uploaded that pic of the test strip of epoxy on waxed CGM purely to show what I had done and for criticism. Not to hurt feelings or insult or such like. It looked fine to me (Looks can be deceiving) It was only a single CGM and Epoxy, it Laid up easily and was quite strong. I tore the whole thing to pieces, having to break the Ply first and then fold a strong crease into it. Even then it was a tough call.

So Tell me can I get away with it or do I go buy Polyester (Delay or weeks).
Ron

Thanks iand,
So if I have it right then given that;
1 I have waxed chopped Glass Mat
2 I have cut the mat patterns to shape
3 have the woven cloth cut and placed. No resin yet.
4 Pre-Planning is not what I'm good at. I usually see and do.
I reckon I either get more Glass Cloth and run with the Epoxy or Use Polyester with what I have.
I've just done the math, 4kg Polyester Resin $46 +$15 postage. Bugger it all. I've placed another order, I was tempted to get UV hardened. Shoot I must have Composite Sup's entire range by now.
Just as well I require some epoxy for another little job.

Just keep gently nudging me onto the rails when I need it.[}:)]

Ron

Ok Lads.
This is one for the Epoxy experts Maybe you don't have to be so expert just know what the Hell I've done wrong





Now I thought what a great idea "I have a mile of epoxy resin, why not coat the CApsule Plug. Make it nice and slick and when it is cured and waxed and whatever else the final Capsule is going to look a Million Buc. Hah! Not at this rate. It would seem if there is a trap going I will blunder right into it. Bugger (The strongest I can use in this Forum and not be deleted.
Ron

Hiko, there is virtually nothing to walk through.
I initially used a glass Bog kit to strengthen and even out the ply framework. Sanded it back and then used Body Putty to finally smooth the whole thing. Now this may be the problem. I used a clear lacquer which did cause a little pealing of the putty. however I re-sanded it and after being niggled by a remark that Landyacht made. I added the fold overs. Today I thought a good use for the epoxy resin would be to coat the plug to make it smooth and slick for the Glassing job.. I am just running on a wing and a prayer and thought that a liberal coating of Wax, PVA release and then Flow Coat prior to the Polyester Resin and Glass would see a half way reasonable finish
I should also mention that since that post I decided to go in with the scraper and remove as much epoxy as possible before it went right off. Even though at that late stage the epoxy looked fairly reasonable for about 5 minutes then it pulled back again.
Only now it is a lot thinner
Ron

Thanks Landyacht,
I gather you are telling me to contact the people I got the Epoxy from?

Providing the epoxy is cured properly tomorrow I will sand it back a bit and see how that looks but that will only be on the accessible surfaces.
Ron

Ok Landyacht I will give that a go but I don't know is the epoxy will peel off easily. I suspect it has gripped big time. Hells Bells! I hope I don't have to start again.
Ron

Thanks aus230,
I may well be wrong in this (OOPS! I didn't write that!!!). I get the feeling there is a slight misunderstanding in what I have done. My purpose behind Epoxying the mold is one to strengthen, seal against moisture, make the mold slick etc. It was not and attempt to begin the Capsule itself.

Again I may----What I didn't write in the beginning[}:)]. But I figured if epoxy and Polyester had difficulty in bonding together that coatings of wax,pva and Flowcoat would allow a finish "To Die for" Well it is a description after all.
Correct me if you must, I am big enough and broad enough between the ears to take it
Ron

Just about, all of the above
Sanded back the Spraying Putty Double coated with the Putty and sanded back again down to 400 grit Flour Paper. Made Landyacht a happy man and fitted some water hose connectors. The surface feels about as good as it is going top get.





Hopefully I can start with the wax tomorrow..... HOPEFULLY!
Talk about a production bigger than Ben Hur but I have persevered to this point but am running short on perseverance.

Ron

God Almighty Landyacht,
Can't you think of a little more to keep me busy It is just that I'd like to sail this thing before 2020 It would have been cheaper to have you build the bloody thing for me and easier on my back.
Ah Well! "As needs must, the Devil drives".
Thanks
Ron