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Forums > Land Yacht Sailing Construction

Swing-arm centre sheeting

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Created by Test pilot 1 > 9 months ago, 29 Dec 2012
Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
29 Dec 2012 11:14AM
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Instead of using a traveller, has any-one tried a swing arm centre sheeting system. I am in the process of constructing such a device pivoting from just behind the mast step. Pulleys will be horizontal, in a pvc pipe, removing all that rope getting tangled around your vital bits.
The main idea is to allow the sail to be positioned more like a wing

US306
55 posts
29 Dec 2012 11:30AM
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OK test pilot, tell us more..PRIDY PLEASE!

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
29 Dec 2012 12:18PM
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When its made and tried, then I will give results and maybe even a pic or 2

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
29 Dec 2012 7:53PM
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I was wondering what that odd machining job was the other day

cisco
QLD, 12353 posts
29 Dec 2012 11:28PM
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Test pilot 1 said...

Instead of using a traveller, has any-one tried a swing arm centre sheeting system. I am in the process of constructing such a device pivoting from just behind the mast step. Pulleys will be horizontal, in a pvc pipe, removing all that rope getting tangled around your vital bits.
The main idea is to allow the sail to be positioned more like a wing


That sounds like what on water yacht would be called a vang.

If the base sheeting point is just behind the mast and the boom sheeting point is somewhere out along the boom, a vang is what it is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_vang

If that is not what you are doing, I am sure we are all interested to see what it is.

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
30 Dec 2012 1:10AM
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cisco said...
Test pilot 1 said...

Instead of using a traveller, has any-one tried a swing arm centre sheeting system. I am in the process of constructing such a device pivoting from just behind the mast step. Pulleys will be horizontal, in a pvc pipe, removing all that rope getting tangled around your vital bits.
The main idea is to allow the sail to be positioned more like a wing


That sounds like what on water yacht would be called a vang.

If the base sheeting point is just behind the mast and the boom sheeting point is somewhere out along the boom, a vang is what it is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_vang

If that is not what you are doing, I am sure we are all interested to see what it is.


Not a vang as I read it on wiki. It is more redirected centre sheeting.
Had a lot of trouble removing sufficient gal off the bits of steel I used, then getting enough penetration with my mig (inner core) without blowing through the thin stuff. I bought a special spring yesterday for this project, and, thanks to my infallible filing system, I am going to buy another one tomorrow to finish it
My old mig was cursed soundly and frequently today as the wire feed tube tends to grab at the most inoportune time (usually just after I strike an arc)****&^%

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
30 Dec 2012 8:42PM
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Finaly finished fabrication of swimg arm


naly finished fabrication of swimg arm





As can be seen, fully sheeted in & no bending
length of wood as boom.
This set up will hopefully allow me to set the sail and point higher into the wind and also possibly more directly down wind
If we have wind tomorrow I will try it out at Lefry

Chook2
WA, 1249 posts
30 Dec 2012 9:36PM
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That is a VERY interesting setup Tp1.

The MIG sounds like it needs a new tip on the handpiece, or at least run an oxy torch cleaner through it to get the crud out.

Are you running the flux cored wire on DCEN (Direct current electrode negative) This is very important, otherwise the wire vaporizes without any penetration.

Your tip problem Wayne, is as the wire heats up and expands, it jambs. It cools off and seems ok. It frustrates the hell out of you. Give it a really good clean or replace it.

With gasless welding, a clean tip is more important as there is no gas to cool it.
To make it even harder, when it jambs, the feed roller spins on the flux cored wire and damages that contact point of the wire. Particularly when the feed roller has been wound down to push it through.
When this damaged bit gets to the torch tip, it won't feed through easily.

I bet if the tip is cleaned well and there is no rust or damaged bits on your wire, you will have to decrease your wire speed.

Wire speed on flux cored, is slightly more critical due to the reduced mass of steel in the wire to achieve the same results.

A lot of the cheaper "flux cored" wires are not multiple pass. So the welds must be chipped, or wire brushed before welding over them.

Pop the welder on a close table, so you can adjust the wire feed while you are actually welding and see (or more importantly hear, a nice even crackle) the difference.

Hope this helps mate.

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
30 Dec 2012 11:04PM
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Chook, tip was new 3 days ago with new spool of wire. I know there was a bit of rust in the feed tube but I thoroughly cleaned it out and lubricated it with crc. Main trouble is with the stupid switch on the hand piece which is made with 2 spring loaded carbon contacts. One day I will replace the switch with some thing (after market) better.
Thanks for your advice

cisco
QLD, 12353 posts
31 Dec 2012 11:54AM
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Obviously a lot of thought and effort gone into that set up TP1.

Still looks to me that it will behave like a vang though.

You are Test pilot 1, , so suck it and see what it tastes like.

Looking forward to hear of your results.

Gizmo
SA, 2865 posts
31 Dec 2012 12:48PM
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Sort of looks like a 'Mast Spanner' a used on big catamarans.

Looks like there is going to be a MASSIVE amount of force around that 'D' shape adjustment thingy.

US772
332 posts
31 Dec 2012 10:22AM
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Love the innovation!

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
31 Dec 2012 6:46PM
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Gizmo said...
Sort of looks like a 'Mast Spanner' a used on big catamarans.

Looks like there is going to be a MASSIVE amount of force around that 'D' shape adjustment thingy.


It does not turn the mast, only the boom/sai.
As to lateral force on the angle adjuster we will wait and see.
Temp in 40's no wind. Bah Humbug!

blewbyyou
12 posts
1 Jan 2013 1:15AM
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Interesting but looks as if could be lethal in a crash.

lachlan3556
VIC, 1066 posts
1 Jan 2013 5:41PM
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Hopefully a great idea. If it doesn't work then it is definitely an innovative one

Good luck with it..

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
1 Jan 2013 8:18PM
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too hot to try out today,but it looks good, essentially a travellerthat allows you to shape the sail and build up in lighter winds, should be interesting to see how much it will improve waynes light wind sailing

aus230
WA, 1660 posts
1 Jan 2013 11:06PM
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I am finding this quite interesting, Love when people think outside of the box.
Cheers
Vic

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
3 Jan 2013 10:21PM
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blewbyyou said...
Interesting but looks as if could be lethal in a crash.


Simple solution to lethality in a crash.......don't crash!

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
3 Jan 2013 10:46PM
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Finally, some decent wind. Sailed on the clay pan
Boy oh boy, it works. Surprisingly well.
Certainly showed the principle was sound BUT, the pipe I split to make fit was too thin walled and needed to have the split reinforced My chook poo welds held. Will post pics when I get them from Rob Carr.
I have to find another method of controlled adjustment under load. Thinking maybe gear driven perhaps. Any thoughts/ideas are welcome to solve this problem. I have looked at some curved travellers.
When I set it as far out as possible on either side(45degrees from centre) my yacht sailed extemely well. In fact, where as normally, fully sheeted in, a sudden gust would tend to lift a wheel, instead, the force pushed the mast forward with an added increase in speed
Maximum speed for the afternoon was 59.9kph as I kept running out of room.
After the pipe split, I removed the swing arm and sailed as normal, popping wheels for 15 mins. I had to stop as my tongue was starting to get sticky from lack of moisture(we forgot to bring some hydration liquid).

US772
332 posts
4 Jan 2013 12:08AM
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a few bigger wingmast/sail combo boats here in the US sail via traveler. They cleat off the main and trim with the traveler and wingmast. Too bad stock windsurfer rigs don't work better for what we are doing. In essence that set up is more or less controlling the angle of attack like you are doing.

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
4 Jan 2013 12:20AM
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I am in the process of redesigning(hamfisted scribbles)a control using a form of curved traveller

US772
332 posts
4 Jan 2013 4:42AM
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Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
4 Jan 2013 10:00AM
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US772 said...



Nice, but I need a vertcal curve about that size, Thanks
I am attempting to build one with parts from a cupboard door track roller carriage

Clemco
430 posts
4 Jan 2013 10:37AM
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Test pilot 1 said...
US772 said...



Nice, but I need a vertcal curve about that size, Thanks
I am attempting to build one with parts from a cupboard door track roller carriage


Have a look at the Cowdroy TT331. They have an aluminium track that could be rolled to a curve.

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
4 Jan 2013 4:25PM
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To bend that track, would need a former to fit inside while bending to prevent the open section colapsing. Other than, I already have a couple of T331 carriages "Great minds think alike"(all fools think the same)and have, with Rob Carr's help(he has an industrial roller/bender) just rolled a 1 mtr length of 30mmsqr x i,6mm wall tube into a fair approximation of a suitable arc to make a carriage/rope track.

I need to buy some Dyneema for the pulley/control system for this set up.(Any one know where I can buy some cheap Dyneema and pulleys)

US772
332 posts
5 Jan 2013 4:39AM
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I ran across this video of an old c class with a huge curved traveler. see @ 17 seconds in
www.britishpathe.com/video/race-for-international-catamaran-trophy-at-thorpe/query/catamaran+racing

PeterVernet
56 posts
6 Jan 2013 12:59AM
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I tried and tested it last oktober and build this,



It worked ok, but need some handeling improvent.
On the test there was more sail power after the turns and in downwind runs, comparing if the mast stands in a locked vertical standing.



Around the boom area obove my head.

Now i took it apart for the base area. Foto's comes later.
When the sail flips over the weight of this costuction , combined with the flip over creates a dis-balance.

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
22 Jan 2013 8:02PM
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As I see it your unit allows the mast to move side to side whereas mine moves the boom and therefore the sail as a unit allowing control of the angle of boom/sail in relation to the yacht centre line.

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
24 Jan 2013 11:23PM
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aus230 said...
I am finding this quite interesting, Love when people think outside of the box.
Cheers
Vic


Hey Vic, I am bringing the unit to Walyungup to play around with

ChrisClarke
51 posts
25 Jan 2013 6:45AM
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Could a similar effect be obtained by rigidly fixing the boom to the mast with some kind of massive gusset? Sheeting relative to the yacht centreline would be handled by rotating the mast/boom combo in the step and sail shape with downhaul/outhaul led back to the pilot.

Sorry about the gratuitous use of 'gusset', fnarr, fnarr. (it's a UK thing)

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
25 Jan 2013 7:20AM
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You mean like a wind surfer rig
That is what I am trying to accomplish!



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"Swing-arm centre sheeting" started by Test pilot 1