Forums > Land Yacht Sailing Construction

Watch This Space.........

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Created by j murray > 9 months ago, 30 Sep 2010
j murray
SA, 947 posts
30 Sep 2010 4:08PM
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Went back to rebuild .....and it's closed. So in preparation for some new photies

as things are nearing a "GO" road testing will start this weekend if the

weather is suitable. Tomorrow, friday, will sort the rigging and some new ideas

are there [for me]. I will recharge the camera, expecting a workout

only radio gear and inbuilt swag yet to be finished.....wooooooooopppeEEeEEe!

Only for those interested

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
30 Sep 2010 3:48PM
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thats the news weve been waiting to hear

j murray
SA, 947 posts
1 Oct 2010 10:54AM
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A fair bit of remodeling and weight shedding saving round 16-20 kilos

New high vis yellow light weight cover, it's cut properly, country canvas bloke

did it, has one draw back....bees love it

the traveling platform with an old time model demonstrating. said to have

known R.M. Williams. The new entertainment center ...radio tape deck and

UHF, hopefully get the sails up later today maybe post tomorrow

j murray
SA, 947 posts
7 Oct 2010 5:05PM
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desertyank
1262 posts
7 Oct 2010 3:29PM
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A thing of beauty; love the pics with sails onboard

I wish I could be there to see it sail. Hope you can get video when it goes!!!

mad66
VIC, 57 posts
7 Oct 2010 8:13PM
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Hi jmurray i love it thats what i call "MAD" fully equiped let us know how it goes.

tassiefubar
TAS, 113 posts
7 Oct 2010 8:17PM
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I love this!!!
How about a row of reef points in that main?
Looks as though you have been working on this one for a while....pity i missed it!
This is just so cool

hills
SA, 1622 posts
7 Oct 2010 8:53PM
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Looks great Joe, nearly ready for the open road!!

j murray
SA, 947 posts
8 Oct 2010 10:19AM
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thanks blokes

Must say though....

am suffering small and annoying problems, yet to be

overcome. Am experiencing some drag from wheel bearing oil seals on axel

and also some drag from disk brake pads on rotor. I would expect this to be

overcome , non existent, in breezes above 10 knots, however I will be

working mostly in lighter, say 4-10. So I am open to advise from all you

engineers out there, worldwide. The seals must stay in place, there are eight

4 inner +4 outer. The disk brake rotor is straight. The door is open

desertyank
1262 posts
8 Oct 2010 9:25AM
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Do You have pics of the problem area? What kind of calipers are You using?

j murray
SA, 947 posts
9 Oct 2010 11:30AM
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so here's my wheel set up 1st a non braking wheel, it runs well



here's a brake wheel viewed from rear Right hand side



same wheel from front only difference is brake rotor attached



other side LHS from rear, same same, both have resistance



from the front , both rotors and calipers were sourced from same
front wheel ,undamaged motor bike. only thing i see is that
calipers are set up horizontal and due to wear factor they may drag



Does anyone think that by moving caliper mount 45degrees clockwise
to a position vertical on the front of the rotor would help






desertyank
1262 posts
10 Oct 2010 4:49PM
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is this a 1 piston caliper? if so, make sure the caliper can move freely on it's pins.

for 2 piston as well as one piston calipers, squeeze the pistons in, then apply the brakes. the only thing that retracts the pistons away from the rotors during use is the friction of the rubber seals, so they need to be 'pre loaded' prior to starting.

might also try pulling one of the pads out and see if it's the inner one or the outer one causing trouble. is it possible the caliper isn't exactly parallel to the disc?

i don't think the thing's position should cause the drag.

good luck, keep us posted please!

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
10 Oct 2010 8:27PM
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given the speed and load the rear wheels are carrying , you could happily get rid of the inner seals and the grease and run them on chainsaw bar oil( with tacolene). each of those fat wheels is capable of carrying the weight of your cart, so maybe dump the high drag, high weight fatties and replace them with 4.00X8 4 ply road ribbed tyres( not the heavier 6 ply).
youve built a conundrum of a machine , in order to do what you want , you need something that is lightweight, with low rolling resistance, some chassis flex and just the right suspension and a big sail area for low speed grunt under sail.

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
10 Oct 2010 8:59PM
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What's the rolling resistance like if you push the pistons in by hand (and don't apply the brakes)?

If it's much better than what you've got now, then you may be able to put a spring into the system that pulls on the brake pad, retracting it that little bit further than normal. It won't need much distance (but will need a fair bit of force), if you get really fancy then you could make an adjuster to cater for brake pad wear. Although I'd be surprised if you saw any noticeable wear through your entire trip, you wouldn't have the sort of load on it that a motorbike sees.

Another option might be a cable pulling on the brake pad, so when you want to reduce the friction you pull on that cable and the piston retracts that tiny bit more, reducing friction.

The only problem with this setup is that you may need to pump the brake pedal if the piston has been retracted too far. It would need an adjustable stop added to the system so that this didn't happen.

j murray
SA, 947 posts
12 Oct 2010 10:47AM
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thanks for all your ideas. I have managed to add some fairly thin washers

to help disc pad alignment. It has worked somewhat, but i would only class

it as reasonable. My best results will come with some delicate engineering and

micro measurements, and that will come about next year. For now I will classify

it as acceptable for road trials. Tass mentioned main sail reefs, so how about

an explanatory sketch. i have some ideas but would like to confirm

Clemco
430 posts
12 Oct 2010 2:25PM
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I think Landyacht is right, but only for the front tyres. I would change those double wheels at the rear to one larger diameter wheel. May need a motorcycle wheel.
I wouldn't add too much sail. A reefing method would be a good idea.

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
12 Oct 2010 8:52PM
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clemco, some of Joes earlier machines had larger diameter M/C wheels, but joe decided on this arrangement over some of his earlier designs. Personally I reckon hes on the wrong track , but you need to keep in mind that for this type of machine joe is a pioneer, and has an amazing number of km's under his belt, compared to my few kms on smooth haul roads and orepads. so i will bow to his experience and lets see what happens

cisco
QLD, 12337 posts
12 Oct 2010 11:50PM
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Joe, if you ditched one pair of rear wheels, the pivoting dual axle assembly (apparently a throw back to your trucking days), the discs calipers and operating gear plus a whole lot of other weighty unecessary stuff you want to carry around, you will probably reduce the G.W.M (Gross Working Mass) of your machine by more than 100 kg.

The first benefit of doing this is that you may then be able to push it for 100 metres without causing yourself a cardiac arrest.

The second benefit is that you will give it half a chance of actually sailing in 20 knots or more of breeze!!

It appears to me that you have designed and built your yacht with more emphasis on stopping than going.

When I show my landyachts to people who are not in the know, usually the first question is "Where are the brakes?" or "How do you stop it?"

My response is "This thing is built to go not stop. If I need to stop in a hurry I just throw a Uie." Instant release of energy.

I assume you want success in your endeavours but your efforts appear to be self defeating. There are some physical facts you seem to have ignored.

With the weight saving suggested above, an effective lever operated drag brake would be just as effective for a less than 10 kg weight cost.

Another weight saving can be had by substituting your radios with hand helds and your canopy with a wide brimmed hat, sun block cream and appropriate shirts. BCF have "fishing shirts" which block UV exposure and are quite cool to wear. I have one and they are great to wear.

Please do not take offence to my above as honesty is the only way I know how to operate, be it brutal or subtle. Cheers Cisco.

sn
WA, 2775 posts
13 Oct 2010 12:02AM
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A few years ago (actually a bit more than a few) I used to mess about with a "class australia" dirt track go kart- same as "clubman class" bitumen racing go karts.

The brakes on mine were cable operated disks- which were very simple and lightweight, easy to adjust. as an added bonus they even stopped my cart.

If I remember correctly, one of the carts I saw was using a modified saw blade as the disc for his brakes (the teeth were ground off)

possibly another alternative to consider?

I also agree with going for a lighter 2 way radio/la-la radio as there could be some significant savings there.

I think Joe wanted the dual rear axles to give a softer ride on bumpy ground- but I think that narrower wheels on all axles could save more weight/ reduce drag- and keeping front and rear wheels uniform means less spares need to be carried.

j murray
SA, 947 posts
13 Oct 2010 8:56AM
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Thank you all for your input, all of the points you make are relevant,

in/on most cases i have already experimented in the ways you say/advise

and this has been covered in earlier posts. This whole rejig is my third

revamp of what i think i need for my basic enjoyment/needs. As soon as the

weather clears up a bit, i will post what i will be carrying within. It will

surprise you. The cart is now 8 year old and there were two before that,

the biggest difference is that, my latest update is built to travel self

supported for a number of days it is not a rip tear recreational machine.

Keep in mind, that the real point of the exercise is to make my body

partake in something my mind does not want to do

It is the journey that is so important to me. If it kills me [64] i will die

doing what I want to, and all/most/all of you can say..."I told him so !!!"

....but it wont...not yet.......some of us have to be different/cantankerous

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
15 Oct 2010 7:18PM
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joe , if it kills you on the road , could you be near a good pub, so we can have somewhere to crash after the wake

j murray
SA, 947 posts
16 Oct 2010 10:11AM
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Landyacgt, I like your attitude............however it wont happen...I hope,

don,t mind taking a bit of stick...occasionally. I think yours is tongue in

cheek, ............some others are a bit spiteful and very uninformed, a bit

childish. So I will put a case forward here........... There is a historic old

landyacht photo in these forums that depicts a land sailer with six persons

aboard, built pre WW1. If we give these people an average body weight of

80 kg = 480kg add to that the craft weight of around 200 kg total 680kg so

lets say about 700 kg all up.....IT SEEMS TO WORK WELL !!

Now with my cart coming in top at 500kg, more modern in every way, why

wouldn't it work. I base all my calculations on The Engineers Black Book

2nd edition with the cover photo of The Vitruvian Man by Divinci . based on

Marcus Vitruvius a Roman Arcitect who published ten books, many, many

years ago, subjects include, architecture, city planning, and, MACHINES!!

Wannabees , the under educated, the narrow minded and self centered

should spend a few days reading up , It will enlighten their dark lives.

j murray
SA, 947 posts
21 Oct 2010 2:49PM
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accommodation modular unit............installed



Operational payload to go........C13 WAECO fridge, Water 2x25 liter,
Food storage 1+2 a day box, Chair folding Medical, personal hygiene,
bits and pieces, gas burner stove pots and pans, toolbox, junk box.



All stored for now, everything rides on rubber clip together mats on top
of alliuminium to stop shake and rattle and breakages




Add...change of clothes and bedding....and wind of course

lachlan3556
VIC, 1066 posts
21 Oct 2010 3:46PM
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Nice work Joe. I wish you well for your adventure.

Hows the rolling resistance so far? Looks like it will need a hefty push to get going Great looking machine!

cisco
QLD, 12337 posts
21 Oct 2010 10:17PM
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Looks great Joe. Hope you have a ton of fun with it.

j murray
SA, 947 posts
22 Oct 2010 10:55AM
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Still a few little things to tweak, I hope to leave home next Thursday

for a break in trail of about a week or two. Dont intend to bust a poo-poo

valve , just tippy toe around some near coastal rural roads, between

Roseworthy and about Balaclava South Australia.

Could be very interesting, fairly flat and open country that will get sea

breezes. Open grain country with harvest nearly ready to begin. they are

cutting and bailing Hay at present.

Busy trying to pack it all and leave as much as i would like to take

behind....decisions, decisions. I have got the disc brakes working quite

well with I would say about 95 percent efficiency that is only 5 p/c drag,

up from 50p/c so that's good. It gets a bit scary about here

Aiming to be at Wind Event @ Port Germaine weekend 19-20-21 November



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"Watch This Space........." started by j murray