I know that several clubs display the Land yachts at car, boat, 4WD, and adventure shows to attract new members.
These people are looking for new adventure sports .. i just think that even pics displayed of "Bedsheet" type yachts will destroy the "New Enviromentally Friendly Sport" image we all are trying to create.
Do yourself a favor and have a look in the local newsagent at adventure sport magazines and this is where the sport should be heading rather than regressing to a "Gala Day" event along side the 'egg and spoon race'!
For example..... this classy magazine loves stuff on adventure sports. It would be terrific if Landsailing Australia could offer a well prepared article written in the style of this magazine.
www.anacondastores.com
www.outer-edge.com.au/index.html
Exactly! Emphasis on the 'sleek' and 'cool' yachts to get attention and then when you get them talking to you mention that it doesn't cost the world to get started.
You can make a class spec yacht without spending any more than the "Dumpsters". My yacht is in class V spec, but it didn't cost as much to build as the entry level blokart. I spent a bit on the sail, but could have converted a donated windsurfer sail to bring the price down further.
I guess all I'm trying to say is the "Dumpsters" can be sleek and cool and within class spec too! Pauls Lefroy minis prove that 
I believe I have redeemed myself on that count
or get my good faithful mate Test Pilot 1 to do it for me. 
But I know that If I need something destroying with speed and reckless abandon TP1 is your man
Good point Hills. Its easy to build within class spec just sometimes not so easy or competitive, everyone to their own. Not sure if comparing inexpensive to an entry level blowkart is supporting the point though
If I may ask, what did your seat set you back? I know i know, someone tell me to go jump whenever I mention the word 'seat' 
Haha, very good point Lachlan 
David Rose has the mould, he sold me that one for $220. I gotta say its really comfortable
I'm not sure in the context of this thread anyone is complaining about the price of a blokart. If Aga wants to build a super cheap dumpster, then Lachlan is saying there's no point me comparing the price of my PM to the price of a blokart. I think he's saying for my point to be valid in this context I should be comparing the price of my PM to that of Aga's dumpster. A point, in hindsight, I agree with.
EDIT: (I'm adding this after Split's repsonse below) Further to your post Cisco, I personally don't have an issue with the price of a blokart and may well own one, one day, as they're not much more than the amount I've just spent on my latest bike. But, when I got into cycling I was able to buy a $500 cheapy so that I could make sure it wasn't just a fad as you described. Once I decided it wasn't I upgraded. I think its this entry level cheapy that the people who gave you greif are looking for and unless you build your own, doesn't exist. Lets face it, granted they're good value for money (as detailed above) but its a lot for a person to outlay before they have been given the chance to determine if this sport is a fad or something they wish to persue.
My initial point was, if you're building your own dumpster, I don't think it would cost much more to make it comply with a class, if any at all. That way if this great sport entices you, like it has us, then you can start competing before you upgrade to the blokarts, promos or swifts. All of which are good value for money once you've decided its not a fad. If it doesn't entice you you can still have great fun on the beach as Aga and his team do and you haven't really lost anything.
I should add I'm not suggesting there's anything Aga should do differently as I suspect all he has to do is trim his axles and use his smallest sail and he'll probably be classV compliant (although I haven't gone through his specs that closely so don't quote me on that )
As far as doing a "realistic comparison" for a one of (Quote-"The yacht the boys built is VERY basic, I doubt it would be a nationaly acceptable/saleable model)- how about pride of accomplishment.
ie.Blokart-$$$(payed for by working)
Homemade-$300-$500 testing your abilities, the sense of achievement, the ability to find solutions to problems you encounter, the testing and tuning, the pride in saying to the person who stopped to look "I built it"
I'm sure aga is very proud of Jesse's achievement and would perfer him to be pointing that can of paint at the landyacht and not at someone's fence or in a plastic bag.
Once again congads Jesse on a job well done.
PS. With your dad's OK I'll post a design of a H2O gattling gun for dog fights.
Select to expand quoteMy post was mainly in response to Paul's cost break down of his PROMOS, and to say that when making comparisons, let's make sure we are comparing eggs with eggs and not chalk with cheese.why not plenty of one off home specials have competed at the top level and been very succesful with out spending mega bucks , one for example bert munros fastest indian it was done on the absolute minium of cash and there are plenty of other examples if you look around
Re:- If you really love doing something, isn't it worth spending top shelf on it?
If the only way I could get into land sailing was by spending $10,000 on a Standart, I would spend the 10.
For me the primary purpose of money is to spend it on what gives me and mine pleasure. I am going to be dead for a long time.
I agree with this sentiment completely. I always look for the most economical way of achieving my aims. To reduce monetary costs I often spend another currency which is my time. It is always possible to make more money but it is never possible to make more time. This often makes me question the wisdom of some of my decisions.
The Bert Munroe story is inspiring but I wouldn't take the movie as gospel. Bert didn't spend a lot of money but undoubtedly spent a lot of another currency be it time, health, relationships whatever.
Cheers Cisco.
)) Width=1.5 o/a (<2m)
Select to expand quotelandyacht said...
The vibration " would of course have been absorbed by the nylon bushes that have long been a feature of my front ends.
Thanks landyacht, the nylon bush absorbtion in your front ends makes a whole lot of sence!
I`m sure your designs & building are great, glad you didn`t take offence to my questions
aga
placing nylon washers and or rubber bushes,washers will make a difference in the comfort, and i believe performance of the yacht. any small vibration reduction between wheels and sail will allow the the sail to perform cleaner..
Interesting question being raised is the cost of an "entry level yacht. the Club 88 is built by the SANDGROPERS club . I believe the present cost is around $1600 Ie close to the PROMO I honestly think that is as cheap as you will get a yacht if you go the new sail,wheels,mast ,fibrglasss seat path.
A couple of years ago I thought that I was being pretty clever recycling sailboard gear for yachts and the price to build a yacht became readily do-able for a lot new sailors. I am so gratified to discover that there are so many other people doing exactly the same as me and getting the same pleasure. peace on earth fellow sailors
I like it
Link to -plans-name-video of it in action- 
Transport -trailer-requiered / folding / dissmantle (tools / no-tools)
If ordering a 1000 at a time, would it be possible/costable to blomould plastic the seat
OR leave a mould with a tame fiberglass workshop as a nothing-better-to-do-job / mixed-up too-much-poor it in here-job
aga
its a sticky in the construction section all the plans ,tools. Please email before posting me a video camera. Gift would be well recieved
me niether
but I once got a string of rude phone calls complaining about an aspect of some plans I had drawn. one of his complaints was that the person who had SOLD him the plans wouldnt return his calls.
Molds in fibreglass are so easy to copy and you need to keep in mind that the original seat was financed by others.
you always run the risk of all the yachts becoming the same and design and experimentation coming to a halt. this is one of the reasons that very few top end racing machines are seen in Australia.
the introduction of the PROMO class to the FISLY claases is a great opportunity for Australia to get back into the World stage
The plans in question would NOT be YOUR`S.
The plans in question would belong to the conlomorant/amalgamation/whatever.
Complanits about workmanship might need to be directed to an overseer/ALAS?
May be each chassis fabricater be issued a number that is atamped on the cahassis
LLM plans in construction are hard to follow, there are aleast 2 different front ends in the photos. Tools include midi-evil axes? and UF"O"s?
Not interested in copyrights or egos. Interested in THE SPORT
aga
Aga, you should probably know that Paul has designed a huge number of yachts (including my PM) and always made the plans available to anyone who wants them for absolutely no personal gain. He just does it for the love of the sport, which sounds pretty much aligned with your thoughts. If a "dumpster" design was chosen for this entry class landyacht I think we'd be wise to choose one of Paul's designs as they include a huge amount of landyachting experience.
PS The axe was just for humour and the couple of different front designs would be because the design was evolving while Paul was documenting it.
Just an observation to all,
I've sailed a blokart (brilliant, satisfying)
I've sailed a lake lefroy mini (brilliant, satisfying)
Now, after 35 years or so, of sailing, racing & having built somewhere around 150 landyachts; what is the best deal?
Well actually, I've always found its when people get together & have a great time sailing.
It doesn't matter whether the yachts are big, small or cheap or expensive. (I reckon I've built a landyacht to cover most categories!) What helps are good design aspects that work & easy to rig/sail.
It does help to have similar performing yachts whatever your doing, be it exploring or racing or just having fun.
Yes, you will get people who want to build their own & people who can afford to buy.....
For heavens sake! This is brilliant! The above 2 yachts are both great for their purpose and you end up in both cases with people who may not otherwise be in the sport. They are obviously not the only yachts around, but I have not seen for many years a better chance for new landsailers to get into it, with the advantages that small well designed yachts can offer.
Forget egos, just be aware that a landyacht may look simple, the dynamics are complex, and good designers who really know how to get it right have spent many $$$ & many years to get there. I know, I've tried.
Please understand & appreciate what Paul is giving to Landsailing with his LL mini.
Happy sailing
I understand that & I`m not saying that Paul does not deserve credit for his designs. But he should not have to bear the brunt of abusive phone calls on his own in the case of a nationally recognised and endorsed yacht.
It would not be fair on any one to be blamed for soneone else`s workmanship/design interpritation.
aga
Ah, I see where you're coming from now. No, you're absolutely correct!
The good thing about selecting a common entry class design is there would be a lot of people building them (hopefully!!) so they could all share tips, knowledge and improvements amongst themselves and the designer via forums like this. I think this is something that was lacking in the past when those issues occurred.
Just had to go to the shops and guess what was on the side of the road?......
a trampoline !!!!! do I, dont I, do I, dont I, do I, dont I,?
DO IT!! You don't get raw materials like that everyday!!
Actually, Nah just leave it, but tell me where it is!
