The commitee met this afternoon and measure a yacht to give us some official specifications and construction rules. We decided that freedom of design should be encouraged by setting only wheelbase dimensions,and minimal safety requirements.
RULE 1a. MAXIMUM LENGTH (WHEEL CENTRES) 1640mm
RULE 1b. MAXIMUM WIDTH(OVERALL) 1510mm
RULE 2. Yacht must have an effective seat belt which must be worn correctly when sailing.
THe following are recommendations only.
yacht should have a brake.
Designs should take into account the Australian class 6 rules if the yacht is intended to be raced in that class
Is the 4 sqr metre sail area a rule or just a recommendation? If so is there a max?
Depends if you want to conform to the Brian Reynolds spec of 4.25 max. I guess you could always put your class 5 sail/mast on if you want something different.
My thoughts exactly. If its not illegal, it would certainly be worth it in the light winds.
As I said we want people to experiment. weve usedsails up to 5m2. on salt they tend to overpower you. using 400x8 wheels all round gives your yacht better rolling ability, thus you can use a smaller sail. weve also used sails as small as 1.5m2
Landyacht quick question.
On cat sailing, we can depower the rig. Can this be done to a landyacht? In other words applying more downhaul, making the sail flatter. You go faster this way in high winds and settles the boat down pretty darn good.
This is why I want to go with a cat rotating mast. The rig is very easy to depower when overpowered.
What is your take on this?
in a landyacht you wont have the time to depower, or you want that power to make you go faster. the sheeting/mast/boom system we use has the boom sitting under the sail and as you sheet in you are effectively tensioning downhaul/vang and outhaul. upwind at speed you will be fully sheeted,reaching the same, downwind the same!
I will try to bring up a photoas an example
It is worth noting the simplicity of the rig . no stays or support bars. no handlebars to tangle the sheets. mast is a 4.6 glass mast with a bit of scrap ally 600mm long in the base to stiffen it. boom is a cut down broken mast base. pulleys are tied on and a plastic rowlock on the front of the boom.
yacht has been timed at 87kph
Question.
So why does one part of the country have to make new rules for class 6?
The lake LeFroy committee state "freedom of design should be encouraged by setting only wheelbase dimensions,and minimal safety requirements"
ALSA have a set of rules for class 6
Wheel Base: 1.8 metres
Overall Length: 2.25 metres
and a sail area of 4.25 sq.m which was offically increased to 4.5 sq.m by ALSA
If we want to grow the sport of Landyachting and encourage new sailers, then there SHOULD ONLY be one set of rules.
The ALSA Class 6 rules allow for plenty of "freedom of design" and covers all mini landyachts. Blokart, Phoenix, Manta, Ludic, just to name a few commercial available designs.
So not being a member of the Lake Lefroy club,
what is the advantage of this new measurements?
Do you not want to compete nationally or internationally?
Landyacht I see what you are saying, sadly that setup will release downhaul and mainsheet at the same time. There is no way to un hook the leach without release the luff.
See where im heading? If downhaul and mainsheet were separate you would be able to twist off the sail release power when not needed and this at the same time makes you faster.
I see where you are coming from Robi regarding sail control ,i am also a high performance cat sailor and know that it is the only way to sail them in haevy wind ,to say that land yachts because of speed you wont have time to re act to any gusts i believe is not correct,as you will know out on the wire 18 foot to 20 foot cat 20 knots plus wind rough water and things do happen very quickly but we survive so give it ago,you may need a boon vang not just a downhaul.
Select to expand quote
Robi said...
Landyacht I see what you are saying, sadly that setup will release downhaul and mainsheet at the same time. There is no way to un hook the leach without release the luff.
See where im heading? If downhaul and mainsheet were separate you would be able to twist off the sail release power when not needed and this at the same time makes you faster.
thats a lot of sail bling your adding. . Make your yacht bigger,and your sailing area clearer,bigger to allow you time to didle around. also let other landsailors get out of the way because your going to be rather busy sorting your tanged lines.
I'd say yiu have this all pretty well sorted so the next thing to do is go try it. I did ,and i learned all those lessons . Gosh that was almost 30 years ago!
oops, hit the wrong key. as I was saying, you have to realize thecl 6 was never an international class, only a local thing between the 4 australian clubs. as we became more international cl6 died away.
I would personally love to race cl 6 again, but dont expect us to turn up in rustic rural machines. we have learnt to build some nice stuff.
Also you need to realize that internationally cl 5 is in its death throes as it became too high tech ,and too expensive. if you look at the entry numbers for the world champs , http://www.argentina2008.com.ar/news.asp you will se that fisly has embraced the PROMO cl 5 , a more regulated form of cl 5 which is reminiscent of the yacht we were building the late 80's.
next question please
Hi Hills, there is a number of differences between international cl5 and promo class 5. Promo's are class 5's but not all class 5's are Promos.
Class 5 for quite a number of years was very big internationally and developments in the class were fast and furious. FISLY often had to interpret or allow/disallow various new ideas that people came up with. However internationally over the last 5-7 years to be competetive on a international racing stage you needed an ever increasing pocket as advancements became more and more costly. Here in Australia we tend to hang on to our yachts for several seasons and can still race locally at a good level. This is not the case elsewhere. Last years yacht design in class 5 was old and slow.
There have been several attempts to regulate class 5 to a more *one design* or cheaper version - both here in Aus and internationally. The Club 88, FEd 5's and Pacific Magics are all examples of this. Aussies started modifying Pacific Magics at about chassis no 7.
One design classes can and do work as Standart as shown.
The Promo class 5 is another attempt to regulate class 5 as a cheaper and simpler land yacht that can be built and raced internationally on a reasonably level playing field rather than just on who has the most money. The big advantage that Promo has over other attempts to regulate class 5 is that it has been ratified by FISLY, none of the others had.
It is currently being raced in Europe (mainly France at the moment), several Sth American countries and here in Aus.
Interestingly enough with the exception of your Pacific Magic mast step your class 5 would be close to fitting into Promo rules.
I like racing class 5, it is fast and fun. However my posket is not deep. Internationally my yachts have not been competetive for some time. However my new Promo is now up there with the best and cost just over $2000 to build.
Promo class still allows quite a latitude for personal design and expression however you need to use a relatively simple chassis, wheel barrow wheels and a dacron sail.
I won't bore you with any further differences between Promo's and Class 5's best way to see the difference is look in the FISLY specs. (Aussie class 5 rules are donkeys years behind the rest of the world)
I'll find some photos of my yacht and post.
cheers
Promo Girl
Excellent, thanks Susan.
I was editing my post while you posted yours. Yes I see what you mean now I have read the annexes more closely.
Ok my plan then is to keep sailing my class 5 as it is as that's what everyone around here has, and down the track get one of Phoenix's Standarts 
Problem solvered
Hills said<EDIT again: OK so after reading them thoroughly it looks like the main differences that I could understand are:
1. Mast step can not be adjustable
2. Can't have strenghening braces behind the "Y" join
3. Seat must basically be above the chassis, not wrapped around it as is the case with the PM
Is that about it. If so other than making a new seat it wouldn't be too hard to convert one would it? (not that I would want to though, they all sound like backward steps to me)>
With regards to point 3 we are not sure on this and have actually emailed FISLY as the interpretation of this is not clear due to the fact that much of the design work on these class specs has been done By Spanish and French speaking land sailors for whom English is a 2nd or 3rd language. Not all the linguist kink in the rules are yet ironed out...this is happening now.
At the World Championships next month there will be a Promo pilots meeting with pilots from all over the world represented. We hope that this and a couple of other minor points will be clarified then and we can then give you a diffinative answer.
Exciting times
Promo Girl
Sooooooooooo... getting back to the class 6's, are you drawing parrallels between the Lefroy mini and the old class 5 and between the class 6 and the Promo?
Hills said <Is that about it. If so other than making a new seat it wouldn't be too hard to convert one would it? (not that I would want to though, they all sound like backward steps to me)>
Ahh Hills, if is speed you are really after you need to go to the big maxi class 2 and 3 yachts if it is good racing you are after then the best and fairest racing is the racing that is close together so skill is what wins on the day not the person who can afford the fancy fibreglass wheels and a $5000+ land yacht.
So how can a slick, fast yacht that is affordable and will not markedly date from one season after another a backward step?
I can't wait until the opportunity when I can race you boys and show you just what my little speedy yellow Promo can do!
Promo Girl
P.S 56 pilots from around the world have entered this class in the WC08, compared to only 8 in class 5, 27 in class 3 and 18 in class 2.
Hills said <Sooooooooooo... getting back to the class 6's, are you drawing parrallels between the Lefroy mini and the old class 5 and between the class 6 and the Promo? >
No = Class 6 and Lake Lefroy minis are not reconized anywhere else except here in Aus. They are both useful for experimenting with new designs, they are smaller and more portable than 5's. Portability is one of the reasons the minis have become so popular here on Lake Lefroy. You can often get away without a trailer and just stick them in the boot!
The mini's are also great for getting new people into the sport, including women and children. My younger children have their own little mini yachts - nice and small with a small sail area so they can have fun, safely. They can also be built sleek, grown up size and almost as fast as a class 5 for a fraction of the price. As the minis are also in comparison in size to Blokarts, they race with the minis competitively in club racing.
Promo Girls
Hlls said <Excellent, thanks Susan.
I was editing my post while you posted yours. Yes I see what you mean now I have read the annexes more closely.
Ok my plan then is to keep sailing my class 5 as it is as that's what everyone around here has, and down the track get one of Phoenix's Standarts
Problem solvered >
Ummm Hills for the record they are not Phoenix's Standarts - they are Seagull Standarts. I am sure Mr Seagull - the brilliant designer Jean Phillippe Krisher (a lovely small bald man) would like to know that I have corrected you on this little slip of the tongue!
Standarts are a lovely yacht to sail. We seriously looked at importing one after the last Pacrims but channeled the money into a trip to the WC08 instead.
By the time you get the california spindles (for sailing on anything but sand) and couple of other extra things you will need you will have spent enough money on you beautiful STandart that Paul could build you a whole fleet of minis or even a fleet of class 5's.
Still you would have my envy if you got one!
Promo Girl
PS signing off to put children to bed
crikey ,that promogirl loves to type.
you both missed 2 important differences.
Dacron sails ,5 battens. Ie sails for $700 not $2000.
400x8 rims as the Max size wheel. no $2000 carbon rims with$200 tyres (Im not joking).
You can afford to be competative and raise a family. the construction cost is low enough that a fleet could be built in a country for a competition cheaper that they can be freighted around the world. . that is what the Argentinians have done for us.
Does that start to tempt you?
) would like to know that I have corrected you on this little slip of the tongue! )
) 
The way I see it you can still tinker as much as you like within the confines of the Promo rules. Just means you dont need to mortgage the house to make simple changes.
very true, but I guess you can tinker even more in the class 5 and still race it internationally and even more so in the minis, but only race it locally.
I'm not so concerned about the constant rake of the mast or the supports between the "Y", but I really like the way Pauls PM seat sits down over the tubes.
