Hi, first time this site! Luv it. Good stuff Seabreeze! I am currently building a landyatch probably a mini of sorts and am using my windsurf mast sails and booms. Not a fan of blowcarts, too expensive! My first land sailer was and still is a 7ft timber board 4 wheel wide axle high speed land surfer i made 32 years ago and has sailed all states at one time or another. Total cost to build from new materials then was $100.00. It's still awesome, clocked 98kph Lake Norseman 1986. I'm not so awesome anymore time to sit down and boogy. I still like to get wet as often as allowed. Cheers every one!
Welcome to the forum Ian, look forwrd to seeing your creation at a landsailing event someday
Hi all,
Congrats on an excellent Forum! I have enjoyed reading up on all the great threads and have learned heaps in the last few days.
I sail out of WesternPort Bay in Victoria, stationed at Somers/Balnarring. On a windy day a few BloKarts sometimes come out to play and it looks like a lot of fun, up and down the beach at low tide. we have a growing and serious interest from the KiteSurfers too as the wind angle is just right and the breeze has heaps of pressure behind it. Our sand is nice and hard to ride on too at low tide.
We often see our races being blown out and it is a shame to see so many sailors not wanting to bust their boats up in a big sea, wasting all that wind. Some of us travel long distances just to get there from the 'burbs, and some decent land based sailing fun could give added value to our membership in a big way.
Initially I want to make something that handles well, goes fast and looks the part. I figure that if I do it right enough we could quite easily generate some real interest from other sailors in the area. We are a big enough club with over 75 regular sailors across a wide range of classes: Tornado, A, Hobie, Paper Tiger, Mosquito, Laser, 420, etc and this could well evolve into a winter sport for us.
I have a few broken A Class bits to play with, as many do, and wish to make a decent enough machine to start with. I have 6m of HallSpar carbon mast, alloy beams, fully battened dacron and mylar sails, rigging and running gear; all detritus from 15 years of racing. I have extensive experience, too, in building fully faired recumbent racing trikes which seem to have a lot in common with landyachting, particularly in the chassis area.
I would welcome any suggestions of where to start and what directions are realistically possible.
Thanks for joining the forum.
my suggestion on what yacht to build is the Lefroy mini with the instructions here
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33825
the reason being that it is a tried and tested design that most people could build.
Its very quick and cheap to build and the chances are that youve got most of the bits needed.
People often think that bigger is faster but often with landyachts nothing could be further from the truth.
As i said have a go at building the mini, sail it then let your wife, kids and friends sail it also. (then you might need to build some more)
and if you want later you may then want to go to bigger yachts
good luck
I'll second that. I am in the throes of building one at the moment. It might take you a few weeks to build your first one but you will build your second one in a weekend.
Cheers Cisco.
Hi 715,
Building a LY & sailing at Balnarring/Somers, not as easy as it sounds, first you will need permits to sail it on the beach, you will need a 10million public liability insurance policy.
We have been sailing down their for some 5 yrs now without incident, but be rest assured should something happen I don't want them taking my house..
This is one of the problem with a backyard build LY, trying to get public liability insurance for a craft with little to know engneering.
Regards
RS
It is unfortunate that it has gotten to that situation in some locations ie permits and liability insurance.
If it is not required for surfers, wind surfers, kite surfers and kite buggys why the differentation when it comes to land yachts?
Rocket Ship, I find it interesting that you quote public liability insurance in land yacht construction, I would have assumed Blokart (manufacture company) has some sort of waranty on their product and this would ONLY be there if repairs and regular servicing were done by them or their agent using genuine blokart parts (a bit like a new car).
I hope you have never replaced a bolt or nut yourself with a non genuine part?
Wasn't there a legal case a little while back when a person was injured with a blokart design failure, and legal action was taken against the blokart maker?
Insurance companies also makes the assumption that you operate with a high "duty of care" and you dont do anything stupid.
And I guess that if there ever is a court case involving blokarts this video will be produced showing an blokarts operating in a safe manner.http://www.blokarteurope.com/images/gallery/videos/mpegs/blokart_dutchflip.mpg
It is a very big assumption to think that if you have insurance they will pay out on the stipidity of people, they dont!!!
WN,
you are quite right the public liability is not for the construction of the Blokart, its for the people that may be injured by that Blokart being used, & yes you can not insure against stipidity of people.
I know for a fact you can not sail legaly of the beach at Balnarring with out insurance & a permit.
Can you obtain insurance to cover you useing a home buit LY, I am sure aus751 will find out in due course.
RS
Cisco,
All very good questions, maybe the DSE, Parks Victoria & local foreshore group can answer your questions.
RS
And there is plenty of individual stupidity in landsailing circles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi RocketShip,
This really puts a dampener on things! and suggests that all beaches around the country are in the same situation on this issue, when you come to think about it.
To me this implies that everyone using the beach on some sort of machine, bikes included, need to have PLI cover these days. I assume you guys have the necessary policies and permits from your post? If so, how did you go about getting them?
Maybe the idea stays just that...
Maybe if "aus715" is already part of a water sailing club the activities on the beach may be covered as well as on the water.
Water yachts rig on the beach and would have to have club insurance.
Maybe sailing landyachts could become part of there normal club activities 
That's a good point Gizmo. We are insured through the Adelaide Landyacht club and we only have home made landyachts... at this stage anyway.
Have you been on holidays Hillsy? I cast a little bait for you recently on the forum and didn't even get a nibble.
Welcome to scarface who claims to have stolen his Mothers timber ironing board 32 years ago and turned it into a 98kmh land surfer.
Come on mate, you made the post at 10pm on New Year's Eve.
That is acceptable but to put some cred to it you need to post a pic or two.
Who knows, you might completely change the direction of land sailer development in Australia.
Back to the subject:- INSURANCE. I have been told by an insurance agent that the reason one takes out an insurance policy is to protect oneself from financial consequences resulting from one's stupid acts. Also that the more stupid acts one committs, the higher the premium cost will be.
Are we getting the right slant on this, ie don't be stupid and you don't need insurance? Rather simplistic I will admit, but the principle is sound.
Insurance is the only game where in order to win you must lose first. In my opinion it is the biggest con in the world. Pure speculation, nothing more. Cheers Cisco
If I were in their shoes, and wanted to landsail on that beach as a club, i would be looking into this . Maybe a great opportunity for the Melbourne boys to utilize a beach closer to home
Gidday Tigger, You!!!!! are my kinda man what a Kool ,Cool, Craft 
that's one for the independents, 
You and I together could build a jumbo jet for $76.40 
keep up the good work........sailing, sailing
gidday all,
Got a bit of a theory, hi-tasmgloricial question to float before the collective wisdom of this forum . Has anyone tried or seen rear wheel steering, on a land yacht, such like how one may steer a catamaran 
My feeble mind cannot see any reason for it not to work , fork lifts do it.
Land Yachts are like evolution itself, never finished, always a prototype....to be improved with the next edition....a productive marriage,a happy menavoid
The answer to your question is yes rear steering has been tried and in fact some ice yachts use it.
The problem though with rear wheel steering it is VERY twitchy... just like steering on a forklift at speed it is almost impossible to keep in a straight line.
The caster angle of the wheel that steers at the rear would need to be vastly different from front wheel steering.
Also class 5 rules mention that the yacht needs to be front wheel steering, which has discouraged experimentation in yacht design.
One of the most novel ways of steering was a yacht was where the rig was fixed and ALL wheels steered and positioned the yacht under the rig, it was called the "crabber" .
I never did see it but I would expect scary going down the beach as speed ... with the pilot sitting sideways or backward!!!.
Rear wheel yachts have other problems as shown in the diagram below.
gidday Giz.......... T
Thanks for your diagram, it seems helpful,,,, but,,,I read it as a fixed axle with a kingpin [car] type steer.
I am not a good enough user of this electronic equipment to do a diagram. What you have shown is not what is in my mind.
What i am thinking is as in rudder type steer off two hulls, no connecting axle. In place of a blade rudder, one inserts a wheel. Now if one used the [pair] single torsion suspension from a moderately priced motor cycle as the ruder boxes, incorporated a fixing and swiveling point, and an actuating [connecting] arm at the other end. Sort off a trialing suspension. I recon that it would have to work.
In my experience ...rudders always remain parallel, or seem too....unless there is a problem. Of course a fixed single wheel front, or optional steer front
what-ya-recon...........cheers Joe
I think ive got what your thinking... lets assume for simplicity (at the moment) that a wheel was put into a catamaran rudder stock with the wheel axle being where the piviot point for a rudder blade would have been?
The distance from where the tyre contacts the ground to where that rudder stock piviots (on the transom ... so to say) creates an angle this is the caster angle.
As i mentioned that trailing caster wheel set ups dont work well at speed... just try pushing a shopping trolley fast and watch the wheels wobble all over the place.
I dont know of anything that goes more than 20km/h that has rear steering.(and uses wheels.... some ice yachts have rear steering but these are blades and would not be subject to the same caster problems)
If anyone knows of anything i would like to know how they do it.
ps. There is a skateboard thingy just come on the market called a "Ripstick" that uses an inclined caster setup for the wheels and seems stable.
My nephews got those ripsticks for Xmas, they are great. You can get up a great speed with very little effort. They ended up having to ask their Uncle to give it back.
