I have a local sail maker who will make new sails for my LLFM. He has never sailed a landyacht, he has lots of sail making experience for boats and windsurfers. I know there is a lot of information on this site for sail making, however, I have never seen a plan for a landyacht sail. I was thinking of making a 4.5 and a 5m. Is there anywhere where I can get plans or directions for him to make the sails. I don't know enough to guide him, and he will unlikely go through all the foums. I would appreciate any help. I need to get him going this winter so I will be able to practice with them before the worlds.
Brian
Brian - I have found it's very difficult to get a sail maker to understand what a landsailer needs for sails. If you run out of options these guys are making some good sails for mini's. They are ranging in the $500.00 to $700.0 US range. - www.sailworks.com/
www.epsails.com/
this is a tough question to ask .for a 4.5m sail herse a guess at a profile.
luff length 4100mm
luff curve 150mm over that length,even curve.
foot length length1500mm
leach should be straight,with a square head of about 300mm
given your mini has an initial rake on the mast of say 10 degrees, the angle between the luff and the foot will be less than 90 degrees, probably 75-80. battens probably 5 evenly spaced and a diagonal one at the head.
if you draw that for us and post a pic and do a measurement of area ,. we can see how it looks.
the pocket for the mast will be about 100mm wide laid flat and will add about 0.45m to the sail area calc
Thanks for your responses. I think I should go with the Sailworks sails. I have been using Sailworks Retro windsurfing sails for years and love them. Before I order, I thought I would ask your expert opinion. Here is what he wrote:
Sailworks has been making sails for Mini and Class-5 land-yachts for five years now. The Mini sails are our own designs and the Class-5 sails are copies of a French design.
Our Mini sails are built around a 520 cm windsurfing mast that is well suited to the free-standing Mini rig. Matching the luff curve of the sail to the flex characteristics of the mast has been a integral part of the sail development and successful performance. If you don't have a good mast that you know and trust, then I would highly recommend getting a new mast to go with your new sails. I'll tell you right now that we've had mixed results making Mini sails for an unknown mast curve. If you get our mast I can guarantee the sail's performance, such that one new sail on the right mast will serve you better than two new sails on an unknown or incompatible mast.
We have three digital patterns for the mini sails (4.0, 4.8 & 5.5 m??) and can vary the geometry of each pattern +/- 0.5 m?? to make any size sail from 3.5 to 6.0 m??. The larger sizes are biased to low-speed power and acceleration, while the smaller sizes are biased to high speed stability and control. We use RBS battens, custom tapered to match each size sail.
We built the sails from a scrim laminate called DIAX-60 that we've found to be the best sailcloth for the Mini sails. It has great stretch and tear properties and handles the dirt well. Its a translucent white color, but still clear enough that you can see through to your tell-tales. We have 8 color options for the mast sleeve, batten pockets and corner patching. See the attached graphic. You can pick a single color or two-tone it (black, white, red, blue, yellow, green, orange, pink). We can make you a sample graphic if you want to see what the sail would look like. Attached is photo of a Mini 5.5 rigged in our loft.
Does this look like a good thing to do? I would get a 4.8 and a 55.
Brian
Hi Saby!
You might try getting ahold of 'US307' too. He uses sail works sails, and has had great luck with them (2 national class championships if I'm not mistaken)
I haven's sen him post recently, so you might want to PM him.
John
Hi Saby,
just reading the mail my race number is US306, (not 307)
I'm the one who got SAILWORKS, involved with the mini's, and yes I have used Bruce's sails for several years both on the water and off, the last few years just on the playa, 3 nationals in a row. brag brag brag and gag, But John (US772) got me at the Holy Gale with his coffin and my 4.0 Sailworks sail, Bruce told me not to sale my sails to my competition because they well beat you with them. John got down inside that little coffin and there was no catching him. the enclosed body and a good sail will beat the open frame designs. Yes Saby, you will like the SAILWORKS sails/Burt
Thanks. I have 8 sail works windsurfing sails that I love. I am ordering a 4.8 and 5.5 on Monday. I would like to meet as many seabreezers as I can in July in Nevada.
Brian
I think i might have almost wet myself
they all look like they pretty much match the numbers i sent you.
keep in mind that the sails 4.8/5.5 are both lighter wind sails. . should you be looking at a maybe a 4 and a 5.5 for more wind range.
what do you weigh in at . you dont need that much sail area on smooth HARD clay
Deciding on the size is a problem. I sail on denuded sod farms so it is pretty hard packed. We don't get too much wind, but I want to be able to sail when it does blow. Being 270 lb, I can use a larger sail for myself, and a smaller sail for my guests. Since I need two sails (one for each yacht) maybe I will need to get three sails. Since we don't get good winds on days I can sail, most likely a 4.8, 5.5 and a 6.
My question is will the purpose built sail be so much more efficient than my cut windsurfing sails that I will need smaller sizes? With my current sails, it seems to take a lot of wind to get going. We usually sail in about 20 km winds that sometimes gust to 40 kph. If they are that much more efficent then maybe I should go with a 4, 4.8 and a 5.5.
For comparison: The most common sail I use when I windsurf here is an 11.0m Sailworks Retro. Occasionally I will use a 8.0 and rarely a 6.5. I almost never use my 5.0.
I have lots of time to decide since it is minus 30C outside and we have 1 meter of snow on the ground.
Brian
Select to expand quoteUS306 said..
Hi Saby,
just reading the mail my race number is US306, (not 307)
I'm the one who got SAILWORKS, involved with the mini's, and yes I have used Bruce's sails for several years both on the water and off, the last few years just on the playa, 3 nationals in a row. brag brag brag and gag, But John (US772) got me at the Holy Gale with his coffin and my 4.0 Sailworks sail, Bruce told me not to sale my sails to my competition because they well beat you with them. John got down inside that little coffin and there was no catching him. the enclosed body and a good sail will beat the open frame designs. Yes Saby, you will like the SAILWORKS sails/Burt
Sorry Burt,
I mistyped......
See you at Ivanpah in march?
Select to expand quotesabydent said..
Deciding on the size is a problem. I sail on denuded sod farms so it is pretty hard packed. We don't get too much wind, but I want to be able to sail when it does blow. Being 270 lb, I can use a larger sail for myself, and a smaller sail for my guests. Since I need two sails (one for each yacht) maybe I will need to get three sails. Since we don't get good winds on days I can sail, most likely a 4.8, 5.5 and a 6.
My question is will the purpose built sail be so much more efficient than my cut windsurfing sails that I will need smaller sizes? With my current sails, it seems to take a lot of wind to get going. We usually sail in about 20 km winds that sometimes gust to 40 kph. If they are that much more efficent then maybe I should go with a 4, 4.8 and a 5.5.
For comparison: The most common sail I use when I windsurf here is an 11.0m Sailworks Retro. Occasionally I will use a 8.0 and rarely a 6.5. I almost never use my 5.0.
I have lots of time to decide since it is minus 30C outside and we have 1 meter of snow on the ground.
Brian
now I know your parameters, go the 6.5 and the 7.5
Select to expand quotesabydent said..
Thanks for your responses. I think I should go with the Sailworks sails. I have been using Sailworks Retro windsurfing sails for years and love them. Before I order, I thought I would ask your expert opinion. Here is what he wrote:
Sailworks has been making sails for Mini and Class-5 land-yachts for five years now. The Mini sails are our own designs and the Class-5 sails are copies of a French design.
Our Mini sails are built around a 520 cm windsurfing mast that is well suited to the free-standing Mini rig. Matching the luff curve of the sail to the flex characteristics of the mast has been a integral part of the sail development and successful performance. If you don't have a good mast that you know and trust, then I would highly recommend getting a new mast to go with your new sails. I'll tell you right now that we've had mixed results making Mini sails for an unknown mast curve. If you get our mast I can guarantee the sail's performance, such that one new sail on the right mast will serve you better than two new sails on an unknown or incompatible mast.
We have three digital patterns for the mini sails (4.0, 4.8 & 5.5 m??) and can vary the geometry of each pattern +/- 0.5 m?? to make any size sail from 3.5 to 6.0 m??. The larger sizes are biased to low-speed power and acceleration, while the smaller sizes are biased to high speed stability and control. We use RBS battens, custom tapered to match each size sail.
We built the sails from a scrim laminate called DIAX-60 that we've found to be the best sailcloth for the Mini sails. It has great stretch and tear properties and handles the dirt well. Its a translucent white color, but still clear enough that you can see through to your tell-tales. We have 8 color options for the mast sleeve, batten pockets and corner patching. See the attached graphic. You can pick a single color or two-tone it (black, white, red, blue, yellow, green, orange, pink). We can make you a sample graphic if you want to see what the sail would look like. Attached is photo of a Mini 5.5 rigged in our loft.
Does this look like a good thing to do? I would get a 4.8 and a 55.
Brian
This sail belongs to a guy in my neck of the woods that is building a coffin style boat like the one I just sold.
YAHOO! I just ordered 3 sails from Sailworks...a 4.8, a 5.5. and a 6.5
That ought to do it.
do you mind if i ask how much you paid roughly for the 6.5 sail. and do go to any sailworks distributor to order one.
I ordered my sails directly from sailworks. The prices quoted were as follows:
Prices (US$)
Mini 6.5 m sail $800
Mini 6.0 m sail $755
Mini 5.5 m sail $725
Mini 4.8 or 5.0 m sail $675
Mini 4.0 or 4.4 m sail $625
I contacted :
Bruce Peterson
Sailworks
301 North Wasco Court
Hood River, Oregon 97031
Tel: 541-386-6561
Brian
Select to expand quote[b]landyacht said
now I know your parameters, go the 6.5 and the 7.5
Went with the 4.8 and the 5.5 so I will have a good sail for Nevada. Also when I sail with my friends, I will have the 6.5 whilst they have to use the 5.5 or 4.8 .
The 5.5 is ready for delivery! I had Bruce do a few subtle changes on my new sail.
Have the yacht, have the sails...only need the skills and I will be ready for the worlds.
Saby, would like to see i of your boats rigged with a new sail as I am looking to purchase a new sail from sailworks but
my sails rig kind of like a blowcart set up, also what kind of mast are you using?
Thanks Windnut
I will post a photo as soon as the snow is gone and I can get to my land yacht. It might not be until late March. I ordered whatever mast that Bruce at Sailworks designed these sails around. Have not arrived so I am not sure the brand. 520 carbon fiber
Brian
Brian I rigged my new 5.5 last week. It looks pretty good. I rigged it with my existing 520 mast with a wood dowel stiffener about 3' long inside the bottom section. It looks like I need to make a smaller stiffener to get my mast to bend just a little bit further down to get the sail to fit better. I also ordered a mast from Bruce. I will have to rig the sail on that one to see what it looks like.
John
