Right.
I probably have this thread in the right category now. I will redirect viewers from the other page to this. That is if they are interested
.
Ron
Now Mr Landyacht
Where are we at with this sail? or are you showing me a way to take this Sail in these pages?
At this point I am of the belief that all Sail Makers have different techniques and tricks they believe work. Therefore I would imagine that sails will vary from maker to maker. Hence two sails that are apparently the same will be slightly different and perform differently. Though I have used Fleet Boat Dacron in my Hang Gliders of many years past I had very little input and nothing to do with the sail making.
Effectively Hang Glider sails a are similar, or were in those days, to LY sails only we used a 2 to 1 ratio HG to LY = twice as many as you guys and they had to be a pair mirror image at 2 or 3 thousand feet, one was unquestionably relying on them to keep you alive. Some failed miserably
! If taken past their design perimeters. Damn! I'm glad I never gave much thought to that side when I was younger.
Anyway point being I am relying on you to keep me off my side .
Are you looking at the sail with cut lines in mind or are you directing me.
Ron
You will have to wait till next week for a response Nikrum. Paul has gone sailing!
We have had a beautiful day here today in the Goldfields so all looks well for a great long weekend regatta, camping and catching up with friends.
I am sure the guys will post all about it next week.
cheers Susan
I've been tinkering again thought I'd try my hand at realigning a sail though there is no rhyme or reason for any marks or cuts other than by eye Thankfully these were done on paper print outs. Anyway you'll probably tell me I have an eye like an Old Dead Mullet ("Phaw! That's ripe)
Hey! Thanks for the call Brian,
That chat is just what the Doctor ordered. Truly Great Stuff. Once I understood what the cut was all about, that info will make the job so much easier. In these pages is all the info that is required to cut a sail but for one thing. That is; Getting the Cutter to understand the why of the cut i.e.
To Flatten the Sail so that it forces the mast to do all the work (Shape the sail, tension it, and also that the Crockett Down-haul Rig should be used in conjunction with these sails).
Quite possibly all that is in the Sail Making Pages as well, however if some Astute Knowledgeable Person were to take that info, go through it with a fine tooth comb, List it as Dot Point and consign to its own Topic Line and Closed from Replies. This would save members, such as yourself and Paul having to repeat yourselves to every potential Sailor.. "Well! Hello Sailor" [}:)]. Just a thought!
Mind you it was great talking you one on one, as sifting the info out of the Cross Talk tended to add confusion.
Thanks for that and regards,
Ron
OK Landyacht You said to;
"ok then . step 1 unpick the mast pocket, , but leave the top 250mm sewn on. this is the hardest part to resew and that sail might not ned recutting so far up the sail.
. when you've got it unpicked, stretch it out flat ,and get a photo so I can advise on the next step"
Gizmo Got onto me over the weekend and gave me "The Drum" on the why's and the wherefores of LY sails so I have a better understanding of our purposes now.
I will make a start tomorrow.
Thanks
Ron
Ok! So now the Sail Pocket is unpicked as shown in the pic's below.
I thought it a good idea to lay out one of my masts along the Tip to Down-haul point
The mast is 4.560Mtrs long from memory
That should give you Landyacht, also have a look at where the Chassis is at.
Thanks
Ron
now get some cardboard and make a template as described in this thread
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Sail-making/How-I-recut-sailboard-sails-to-suit-landyachts/
as the mast is a 4.6 you will want a luff length of around 4.2m.
try to retain the rear eye of the windsurfer sail as the rear of the foot
Thanks Landyacht,
That is about where I was thinking of going nut what are you saying by not unpicking the top 250mm?? Is that where we start the new Luff Curve??
Further on the Mast Step. How critical is the angle? I had a mishap and was unaware of it until it was too late but the Step pulled back as I was welding it in place and finished up with an angle of 11 degrees> Not a Happy Chappy 
Other than that all looks good.
Ron
mine is adjustable between 10% to 15% so eleven should not cause any problems.
Cheers
aus230
Thanks for that aus230, I read in another thread that it should be 7degrees. and I started to get the cold sweats
Here hang on a jiffy I just took the % to mean degrees Right?
Ron
Thanks aus',
What is your opinion on Carbon Fiber Axles as shown in pic's in my profile?? My figuring gives a good clear axle strength wise and considering the horrendous pressure they are put under during Down-haul, particularly those masts used in the high performance High Speed Mind Surfers. Though it is a bit dangerous to work with ie. Masks should be worn when cutting the material and care taken when handling broken carbon materials. Splinters, you know
other than that it an easy product to play with. Anyway, anyone that is willing to play with Raw Gas/unregulated Burners and Smelter Furnaces don't need to worry all that much Bronze @ 1900deg is fun to play with.
Ron
Regarding the axles I would make sure to expand the end of the steel where it touches the carbon -- otherwise all the stress of bump loading will concentrate in that one spot and snap the axle. With an expanded throat the stress point will move along the axle and hopefully not snap it.
Similar to what you've done on the mast step, I'd do the same for the axles as well.
Just my $0.02
given that your building bigger than a mini,and using a recut sail i would be inclined to stand it more upright. re the template , I lay it on the sail from the spot where I cut the foot. when youve made your template perhaps put up a photo of it on the sail.
In regard to the axles, nebs is right about the flare in the metal.
personally i would glue the 2 sections together as the chassis you are building will place significant torsion on the axles, and we dont know anything yet about the torsional quialities of those masts
Thanks Lads,
Yeah! I was worried about that Flare business but being as the steel for the Axle Tree is over 3mm I will get in with a Die Grinder and offer it some internal Flare, however Due to the lack of specialized tubing I had to go with what I could get. So in order to accommodate the Axles I used some 40mm lengths of Mast section to enlarge the outer dia' of the axles 2 per axle and made them a snug fit. Thinking about that it leaves the mounted section of the Axle free and clear to do it own thing. I put the thing on Blocks today and bounced up and down.. There ain't much spring.
As soon as I get to the remainder of the sail I will do as you say and post it here.
Ron
Yeah! Landyacht (Tugging my Forelock[}:)])
I've been thinking that and I think I will take the Tape off the edge and reuse
it on the reshape.. The tape seems to hold a lot of the integrity of the sale Luff and it takes the tension of the Mast shape when Hauled Down.
Thanks,
Ron
Landyacht,
This is a possible re-cut of one of those 11m sails using the
rear of the sail to get the flattest part. I used COREL Draw to do this.
What are your thoughts on this (Just thinking to the future.
Ron
How about keep it as big as you can for VERY light wind days...The difference would be the mast luff curve would increase, perhaps add 50% on the measurements so the sail never completely flattens out.
Thanks Gizmo,
OK! Well I have two of them and was thinking on the lines of a Tall Narrow one for windy days and as much speed as can be bled from the sail???? I may have to wrong but I've been looking at the Wing Sails
Do you mean to pull a heavier curve in to the Luff edge/Mast? That would be a hell of a thing to down-haul given the rigidity of the Gastron Mast..
Do you know anything about these sails. I've only had it unfurled a couple of times bu never noted the shaping of the rear section other than it has a bit of shape.
Ron
Anyway what are you doing at home// Surely there is a wind somewhere?
Just thinking ahead..
OK! I laid down some Heavy Paper to make a template of that sail?Hmmmmm Not a lot to remove.. We will see what we will see shortly.
How come you aren't out chasing the wind??
Ron
You're cunning bugger Landyacht.. You knew what ans where with that sail before you made any suggestions. Just the pic's alone were enough to work it all out and here I was thinking you were some sort of Wizard
Here the pic's you suggested I post before the cut.
Looking at the foot; If I am careful I may be able to unpick the Tack Reinforced corner and Eye an put most of back on the sail?? If not then I will be able to reuse the eye any way, it has a built in Dead eye system for the Down-haul Rope.
"What say you Old Chap?? That being said I also will have to undo the Luff edge Tape and reinforcing and sew them back on the sail as well.
Ron
unpick all that edging as you will want to put it back on . that heavy webbing on the front of the batten pocket is really thick and too tough to sew with most domestics , so dont try reusing unless you have an industrial machine.
before you get all keen about reusing the whole sail , remember your mast length.
If that is the boom you plan to use remember to make you seat stiff enough to rear sheet as that boom will be too flexible for effective centre sheeting
Thanks Landyacht,
My intent is to use a Sail Maker to do the stitching only, I doubt our little Elner could handle this job.
Mast length
hmm. That is why I said you are a cunning bugger Where the boom is placed is at the 4.1mtr mark. That is where you suggested I should cut the sail to. You will note that the Template also crosses the Luff and leaves the sail at that point as well. Being as the Formula you Put up in the other Thread is made out to a 4.5mtr Mast length I figured for a shorter sail that any difference should come from the Foot.
Question? When I eventually make up one of the 11mtr sails for speed I have a near new 5.5mtr Mast. I could use it this for this sail however.
Your thoughts on this? Please.
Please note, A new topic for the seat construction.
Ron
when you decide where your foot will be that is where you start the bottom of you template from
Thanks Landyacht,
So then I have to make the decision?? OK! You suggested that I cut it at 4.1mtrs to suit the shorter mast so I place the template at the foot, mark and cut it then tape all the bits and bobs back where the came from More or less.. No I know they will look silly suspended in mid are.. You know what I mean!
You thought that the boom I want to use will be to soft? Why? It is part the top section of a 75% Carbon Mast and I can hardly bend the thing myself.
Thanks again
Ron
Ok So now I.ve Scissored and Taped the sail. At the foot the boom covers the reinforcing Strips taped in place. It looks pretty good to me though what would I know as this is a first for me as well.
javascript:parent.insertImages(' 
')
javascript:parent.insertImages(' 
')
javascript:parent.insertImages(' 
')
I added the Carbon jointing for interest sake. I am researching an Epoxy System that is the stuff of Nightmares and Horror Movies. If it works as I suspect it will tear the machine apart before it fails in this application
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/post.asp?method=Reply&TOPIC_ID=70796&FORUM_ID=68
There is another thing. The Tack Eye Down Haul. I was thinking of having the sail maker sew it back into the sail with a little added Reinforcement. As theses sails don't seem to undergo the degree of pressure of the Wind Surfers it should hold up well but I will be advised those in the know.
Ron
