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Forums > Sailing General

Do i need a bigger boat

Reply
Created by Donk107 > 9 months ago, 11 Aug 2013
Donk107
TAS, 2446 posts
11 Aug 2013 4:46PM
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As most of you will know for the past few weeks i have been looking at a bigger boat to replace my 1986 Spacesailer 20 fin keel

The Spacy cost me around $10,000 a couple of years ago and sits on a mooring in the river outside our house and has cost me a couple of thousand in maintenance and upgrades since i purchased it

It has a cassette toilet, a outboard motor and everything on it is in fairly good condition

I work a 9 day fortnight and try to sail on most of my rdo's all year round as long as the weather is kind and on saturdays if my wife has nothing else she wants to do we will go for a half day sail on the Huon

We try not to sail on sundays as we normally go to church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or Mormons) but ocassionally we will leave on a friday afternoon and overnight in one of the bays further down the Huon and sail back up on saturday afternoon and occasionally on a long weekend with a holiday on monday we will stay away for a couple of nights and come back on the monday

Last year i started crewing on a 33 foot Jenneau in the local yacht club race season that runs from october through to april (most of our racing is done on saturdays and we have thursday night twilights) and this means i am not using the Spacesailer as much as before for 6 months of the year

The spacy is a fun little boat to sail and to replace it with a larger boat that we would like (30 foot plus) i would need to spend probably another $30,000 plus to get a boat that is probably older than the one i have in similar condition

The larger boat would be great for the overnighters but because it has more gear on it (inboard engine , plumbed in toilet, starting and house batteries, fridge and all the other gear that a bigger boat has i imagine i would be spending more money and time to maintain it

When i crew on the Jenneau stuff that is light and easy to do single handed on the spacy such as lifting, dropping and setting sails takes a bit more effort and to be honest i dont know if i would enjoy sailing a bigger and heavier boat as much as i do the spacy

At the moment we haven't got the time or the desire to venture to far out of the Huon and channel and i wonder if i should hang on to the spacy and just be happy with what i have

We also still owe some money on our home and i wonder if paying it off is a better choice than spending the money on a bigger boat that i won't get a lot of use out of for 6 months of the year while i am crewing on the Jenneau

I would appreciate the thoughts of any one who has been in a similar situation

Thanks in advance

Regards Don

sctpc
VIC, 80 posts
11 Aug 2013 5:31PM
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I would expect 30k to get a good boat the same vintage late 80s, But I dont see why you need to upgrade other than you mention size.
Plus you may have to upgrade your mooring to take a bigger boat. Id be happy with what you have and pay that dam house off first then maybe save what you used to pay to the house and buy a bigger boat for bigger trips, well thats what I did, and its not like you aren't getting good experience on a bigger boat currently anyway.

LooseChange
NSW, 2140 posts
11 Aug 2013 7:15PM
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I suspect that most of the bigger boats you are currently looking at Don are for sale as the owners probably don't have the time to sail them. Somehow methinks that if you do manage to get that bigger boat it will get used less than what your Spacey is now.

Ramona
NSW, 7653 posts
11 Aug 2013 7:58PM
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I was sailing offshore today in absolutely brilliant winter weather, lolling about reading and occasionally looking at the windvane and contemplating the very same subject. My last boat was a M&W 26, a quarter tonner that was a delight to sail but limited by no full standing headroom and a 8hp outboard. I would have to say now that standing headroom and an inboard diesel is mandatory! The difference is enormous. You don't need half the stuff all these boats have inside simply because 99% of people day sail. I live close to my mooring, I just can't quite see it out my window but its only a few minutes to get onboard and slip the mooring and gone. Its the diesel, lazyjacks, furling headsail and the sheer handiness of this size of yacht that makes it such a pleasure to own. Its cheap to moor and slip and because it had a long and distinguished career under its previous owners it has first class deck gear and rigging and a multitude of sails. The interior was a bit rough when I got it but now its presentable. Really all we need down stairs is some where to sit and have a brew. I still have not used the heads onboard in 3 years! I just sleep on the settee. Stove to boil water. All the other stuff is not all that necessary.
A 30ft half tonner from the 70's and 80's are no more expensive to maintain than your Space sailer. We have a situation now on the mainland where perfectly good SS30's are advertised for $22,000, Viking 30's on eBay for $5000!!!!!!!!!!! Swanson 32's for $12,000 from brokers!! Its madness. Check out the prices on Spacesailer 20's in Perth. The high costs of marinas and moorings in some places had killed off the market for small yachts.

That Viking did not sell and I calculated the lead keel was worth more than $5000!

Donk107
TAS, 2446 posts
11 Aug 2013 8:40PM
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This is one occasion where i would like to be back on the mainland because as you know yachts in Tassie are a bit dearer than the mainland and from what i have looked at you don't get a lot for less than $40,000

I know what you mean about the boat being convenient

We live at Port Huon and have a nice spot across from the River

We can keep a eye on the boat from the house and our dingy is in a dingy shed across the road so it is pretty painless to go for a sail if the weather gods are smiling

Here are a couple of photo's of where we live

Regards Don






Supersonic27
NSW, 235 posts
11 Aug 2013 8:49PM
Thumbs Up

I agree with all of the above, but would like to add something to the topic.

1stly, I know the area and have cruised down there after doing the S2H a few times. You are in a very special area with some of the best cruising grounds in the world.....I can say that with experience!

A bigger boat, with the extra expense, is FASTER. Not only a bit more seaworthy and safe but the extra speed opens up your cruising ground enormously!

Being able to sail home at. 6 knots rather than 4 knots, in a bit of a Tasmanian blow (no4 & 2 reefs) will Make a big difference.

I have cruised the channel, the duckpond, southport, etc and a slightly bigger boat in your immediate area, if you use it as much as you do the spacy, I believe would be a great upgrade.

Suddenly, Hobart, Dunnally, going up the inside behind Maria island, and possibly up to wine glass bay are within your reach, quite easily in the right weather.....you would not attempt to do this on a 20ft er

The bigger boat then is not so much as cramped camping, but a bit more room and a few luxuries when you do anchor.

I know you have said you are not looking for this but as sailors, we tend to want to look at what's around the next headland!

Cheers

Donk107
TAS, 2446 posts
11 Aug 2013 9:17PM
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Thanks for that Supersonic

I considered all the things you have said when i decided to look at buying a bigger boat and i agree with everything you have written

At the moment in the Spacy we don't venture to far out of the river and the lower channel and you are probably correct in saying with a bigger boat we might tend to go farther away

We have a break from the saturday racing for probably a month over the christmas period and the jobs where my wife and i work normally close down for a couple of weeks at that time so a bigger boat would give us a chance to venture a bit further away at that time

I guess i will just see what happens and i will keep a eye on what is for sale down here

Regards Don

byf
WA, 514 posts
11 Aug 2013 8:27PM
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Do you have a spare room Donk107? Beautiful spot.

southace
SA, 4783 posts
11 Aug 2013 10:18PM
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These cheap boats everyone are talking about are cheap because they need money spent on them!

If you actually take a look at them and no the ins and outs you will see that they will end up being expensive in the long term.......
a good 35 fter should be priced at $60 to $80k .....

Alot of these so called cheap boats where made in the 70s and 80s if they have not been maintained or been rebuilt they will remain a cheap boat waiting for someone to come along and through money at them.
Bargains are rare and don't last!

Donk107
TAS, 2446 posts
12 Aug 2013 12:20AM
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byf said..

Do you have a spare room Donk107? Beautiful spot.


Yep

That is one good thing about Tassie

Lots of water views and cheap houses and land compared to mainland prices

This one is about 1 hour south of Hobart overlooking the Huon www.homelands.com.au/55930/

Regards Don

byf
WA, 514 posts
11 Aug 2013 10:56PM
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Wow. That place is magnificent also Don. Cheers for that. Scott

Sunseeker39
WA, 71 posts
11 Aug 2013 11:28PM
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A bigger boat or put the money into the mortgage !!!!
Are you kidding me.
The answer is always - buy a bigger boat.

Then the next question is, should I buy a newer boat?
The answer to that is yes also,
to save you a post.

Anything less given your location and views would be a crime.

Being serious for a second ,
there will always be rational reasons not to,
I have recently upsized and gone newer.
I could not be happier.
Way less maintenance , more sailing.
Seize the day.

keensailor
NSW, 701 posts
12 Aug 2013 3:35AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
southace said..

These cheap boats everyone are talking about are cheap because they need money spent on them!

If you actually take a look at them and no the ins and outs you will see that they will end up being expensive in the long term.......
a good 35 fter should be priced at $60 to $80k .....

Alot of these so called cheap boats where made in the 70s and 80s if they have not been maintained or been rebuilt they will remain a cheap boat waiting for someone to come along and through money at them.
Bargains are rare and don't last!


very true!

Donk107
TAS, 2446 posts
12 Aug 2013 7:13AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Sunseeker39 said..

A bigger boat or put the money into the mortgage !!!!
Are you kidding me.
The answer is always - buy a bigger boat.

Then the next question is, should I buy a newer boat?
The answer to that is yes also,
to save you a post.

Anything less given your location and views would be a crime.

Being serious for a second ,
there will always be rational reasons not to,
I have recently upsized and gone newer.
I could not be happier.
Way less maintenance , more sailing.
Seize the day.


Hi Sunseaker

While i would like to go newer than our current 1986 boat the problem is that if i go bigger i will probably have to go older to keep within the budget that we want to spend (we have taken a hard look at our situation and don't want to be paying back a large debt) on a replacement boat so that probably means looking for a well designed and built older boat that has been maintained to a high standard

Regards Don



DrRog
NSW, 606 posts
12 Aug 2013 10:25AM
Thumbs Up

"that has been maintained to a high standard" - I think that is the key, and it will normally cost you. I agree with SouthAce here. I bought a 1983 31 footer for $24K as my first boat. The condition is good enough to have enjoyable days out sailing but I put in a new engine (around $13K installed plus significant related costs) after 5 months and in my view almost everything is in need of maintenance or upgrading. That means craploads of hours on projects. Seriously, a lot. I didn't buy my boat to do that but now that I'm doing it I'm enjoying it nonetheless. I suspect most normal people wouldn't. Financially I reckon by the time I get her to meet my personal standards she'll have cost me $60 - 70K. There's no way I would have spent that money up front. Others may have lower standards - but you did mention a wife!

It sounds to me as though you spend almost all your boat time actually sailing. I reckon that unless you want many of those RDOs and lazy days with the wife spent on the tools then you need to either spend more money or find one of those crazy, giveaway, genuinely maintained boats that someone good old soul have priced to sell. Pretty rare from what I've seen, though they do come around now and then. I missed out on what looked to by a brilliantly optioned and well maintained Compass 28 in Mackay a few years back listed for $15K because he'd bought a bigger boat and needed to sell. A well-maintained Compass 28/29 might be a good option; still good weekenders and seaworthy I hear. All the Seabreezers here have mentioned previously that bigger boats cost more for everything and it's true.

Fiesta
QLD, 122 posts
12 Aug 2013 5:04PM
Thumbs Up

Dr Rog has captured your dilemma well. BTW, its a common issue.
There's not too many free lunches around and this is true for boats as well.

My view is the smaller the boat, often the more it can get sailed as its basically easier to handle smaller sails, anchors, motors etc. Having sailed on different boats from 8ft prams to 43ft Farrs, my personal maximum boat size is about 28ft as gives enough space and speed and I can still manage docking / anchoring solo and I'm not dependant on anchor windlasses and lots of electronic aids + less ongoing costs for antifoul etc. This boat size increases with personal skill level!

For a couple, a Space Sailer 24 is a nice cruising yacht with loads of room for the size. Not saying it's fast, space = windage = increased drag, but comfortable and solid. A really tidy one would be $20K in the eastern states, not sure in Tassie.

Good luck with your decision.

Donk107
TAS, 2446 posts
12 Aug 2013 9:54PM
Thumbs Up

Fiesta said..

Dr Rog has captured your dilemma well. BTW, its a common issue.
There's not too many free lunches around and this is true for boats as well.

My view is the smaller the boat, often the more it can get sailed as its basically easier to handle smaller sails, anchors, motors etc. Having sailed on different boats from 8ft prams to 43ft Farrs, my personal maximum boat size is about 28ft as gives enough space and speed and I can still manage docking / anchoring solo and I'm not dependant on anchor windlasses and lots of electronic aids + less ongoing costs for antifoul etc. This boat size increases with personal skill level!

For a couple, a Space Sailer 24 is a nice cruising yacht with loads of room for the size. Not saying it's fast, space = windage = increased drag, but comfortable and solid. A really tidy one would be $20K in the eastern states, not sure in Tassie.

Good luck with your decision.



Hi Fiesta

A Spacesailer 24 was a boat i considered when we first thought about going to something bigger

This one www.boatsalestas.com.au/sail-monohulls/spacesailer-24-conbrio/3793/ was for sale here recently but i didn't look at it because it was short on headroom (i am about 6ft 1) and we thought it might be a better idea to look for something with a bit more room

I would be interested to see a Spacesailer 27 in the flesh

Regards Don

Fiesta
QLD, 122 posts
13 Aug 2013 8:47AM
Thumbs Up

The Spacesailer 20 and 24s are really common on the east coast, I have never (knowingly) seen a 27' one. The relative lack of numbers would be telling me something about the design / cost.



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"Do i need a bigger boat" started by Donk107