Hi One and all, I have had my Beneteau First 405 since last christmas (thought i deserved a decent present ) and as much as it is great to sail and spend time on , i have had battery problems since day one, Having said that the problem is more finding someone who actually knows what there doing, to date i have spent several thousands on trying to keep voltage in the batteries. I have replaced the alternator and starter Motor,(both brand new) i have had all the wireing from the batteries to the isolater switches replaced and installed three new isolater switches,Have replaced all the wireing and switching for the windlesss, i have bought two brand new Century Marine Pro 720cca batteries, I have replaced the Solar regulator and replaced both the bilge pump and float switch. And still each time i go on board ( most weekends) the two house batteris are dead, i have gone so far as to removed the fuse for the bilge pump as it is wired directly from the batteries.
My question is....... are you or do you know of a reliable and dependable person who actually knows what to look for and how to fix it, i have had the boat into a couple of what i would have regarded as top boat shops and i am still having the same issues and now do not want to give these busineses any more money for s*%# service. HELP PLEASE because i dont think it is the worlds biggest problem but it has so far frustrated me no end. i have absolutly no problem paying what ever it costs i just want it fixed...... Thanks.
Ben,
I'd be suss that you have a live earth somewhere,
it will be something simple,
cheers Emmo
Hi all, i guess when asking for help i should have included my location, The boat is in the Five Dock area....
Thanks
Sorry to hear about your updating and money spending exercise with
no positive outcome.
I have done a dozens of problems like your, not as business but as hobby.
Friends like that, no fees involve unless all fix. They risking nothing and
me 40 years in electronic-electrical trade is just another mickey-mouse
puzzle.
It might be good advice for all "fix the problem first".
Do not start replacing anything unless is proven faulty.
Fault has to be fix and start changing stuff, will confuse the problem
and even might implement more problems.
There are also rare findings, the miscalculation, how many amps goes IN and
how much load is expected to cover.
Boat is funny place, draining the valet, patience and in your case even current.
Have we seen it before!!!!!!!!!
My first rule is keep it simple. I agree with Charriot, isolate the problem first and don't spend on replacements until you know that it has a problem.
I assume you turn everything off at the battery switch and switch panel when you leave the boat.
I turn my batteries off at the main switch. On the switch panel I only have the solar panel on and emergency bilge pump on.
If anything is being left on, try turning them all off and turn them on one at a time to try and isolate the problem.
Alternatively, go to the back of the panel and use a multi meter to see if anything is live. If that isn't conclusive as to the problem, you might try taking the wires off everything not critical and reconnect one by one.
If you wish, send me a private message and we might be able to meet (I'm on the lower north) to have a look at the boat. I like solving puzzles, especially when it isn't my boat (or car) that is suffering.
Well Im an electronics tech, im on the other side of the country so cant help you a lot. But the thing is, your best bet is a guy with some experience in fault finding, which involves in some cases a fair bit of time and not replacing stuff willy nilly. The way a tech aproaches this is by disconecting potential consumers to see when the current stops flowing. You start by taking out all the fuses and disconecting anything that hasnt got a fuse in the line. If you still have drain on the batteries there may be corrosion on a terminal or faulty wiring, thats essentaily it. Auto electricians do a fair bit of this type of work on cars.
In the mean time while your not on board, take the terminals off the batterys if possible.
No offence meant here to auto electricians but there are few similarities between boats and cars. I am a bit confused why you have 3 isolation switches and two batteries. Are these rotary switches or knife switches? If you have an electric winch on the bow then mounting its own battery close by is the way to go. If you leave 12v power on just for a bilge pump and maybe radio presets then a small separate battery and circuit connected to your solar panel may be the way to go. The two house batteries should be off while your off the boat, isolated by the battery switch, you only need one, and the batteries are then just connected by your solar panel by a regulator. One of those $13 regulators off eBay for each battery.
I have only had the one experience with Sydney specialists when I bought my boat there. It had been fitted with a new engine and the specialists obviously had little understanding on electricity!
Take up the offer of a local for a second opinion[Morningcloud]
I am a sparky and used to look after industrial cleaning machines battery operated.
This prob happens frequently.
How old are the batteries, when they get old they tend not to hold the charge very well. What type off batteries?
Disconnect your solar panels.
1. Connect a clamp "A" metre to the positive of the batteries array and mesure the amps consumption. If all is turned off you should read 0.
2. If any reading start disconnecting (switching of) all your circuits until the "A" metre shows a reading of 0 amps, you will then know on what part of the circuit the fault is.
3. On an other hand if when connecting the clamp meter you show 0 amps the prob is with 1 or several batteries. Or your regulator is not working or not of the right size and the batteries are discharging back in the solar panels.
4. disconect each battery from the circuit and check the voltage on each battery if the voltage is lower than the nominated voltage on any battery the battery is dead. 12v battery should have just over 12v voltage when not in use even under load.
Hope that helped.
My .02 cents worth.
once this problem is solved it is very usefull to carry a digital multimeter and also a hydrometer to test if the battery is fully charged.
A digital multimeter set to the 10amp range, in series can be used to see what current is being drained from the batteries when any circuit is turned on, you would not test the high current circuit like windless or starter motor this way.
It is interesting to see how much current is used by cabin lights or the gas bottle solenoid .
The meter will also show how much current is going back into the batteries from your solar panel.
I wonder in this case if the solar panels have been incorrectly wired, so they are only charging the batteries when the battery switch is set to a certain position and not providing any charge during the week ??
The hydrometer will tell if your batteries are fully charged.
Using only a alternator to fully charge a bank of batteries will take a long time .
Getting a idea of current in and current out from your battery bank can save lots of money being paid to others ,
good luck
Hi Ben,
Consider this also.
I have just done an audit of the amp consumption of all the devices on my yacht SEAKA. All my lighting is LED, or so I thought.
Anyway when we had done the audit we were shocked to find that the area of highest consumption was....
THE LIGHTS ON THE BLOODY SWITCH BOARD!!!
As a result I am building a new switch board which has NO lights for the switches.
Phillip.
Hi and thanks to all that have replied to my cry for help, it is very comforting to know that we have such a fantastic community of like minded sailing / boating devotees always willing to shear knowledge and experience....
A little more info and hopefullly answer a few questions, the Batteries which are Centurey branded 720 cranking amp marine pro, one was new in Feb this year the other was new in May this year, The three switchs are BEP branded, and one is for the Engine start and is conected to the third battery, the second is for the house batteries and the third is a Emergency Paralall switch. When i leave the boat i always turn all three of them to the off poition, so i am thinking that that shoulld be enough to stop any power going anywere. However as it continues to loose power, i have replaced the old solar regulator with a 30amp Fangpusun branded PR3030 solar regulator which has a digital display and reads the amount of power in the battery plus lots of ather info.
i have printed off all your comment and will have another play this weekend taking note of all the suggestions and possible courses, Thanks again
Ben 405
Hi Ben
Please let us know what type of batteries you are running, are they all the same or is there a mixture, what type of charger is fitted in your yacht...? what is the total amp hours of these batteries. if you can give a list of your electronics, lighting etc we may be able to ascertain the yachts amperage use and work from that.
There has been great feed back from fellow sailors and this is why I am part of this web site, first of all you can save a lot of money from good and unbiased advice that cost nothing. From here I am sure the problem can be defined and solved, good luck.
Hi Ben,
Electricals can be so frustrating & confusing if it's not your field. There's no moving parts in electricals - one reason troubleshooting them can be so much more difficult than mechanical stuff.
My background is Electronics/Electrical. For mine, SugarQube & Charriot have given you the best advice.
Don't spend any more money on equipment, or your own time for that matter - you need a diagnosis from a competent electrical/electronic person. Your problem is not that mysterious (in fact, it should be routine) to a competent person. It should take no more than a couple of hours, at worst, for an accurate diagnosis, and the fix should be simple and relatively inexpensive (that's if the batteries aren't stuffed - which I very much doubt).
Maybe you could find a marine electrical tech through a local boatyard, Chandler, etc - but make sure they have electrical qualifications & marine electrical experience.
Pity you're not down my way (Port Philip Bay in VIC)
PM me if wish - best of luck
Allan
Ben not quite clear description. Because every boat in original, better not assume.
You have 2 sets of batteries, "House - 1 " when is low let say 10.5 volts you switch to 'house - 2 ".
or
when you leave the boat all is switched off /exp. bilge pump & solar" and
both bat. are permanently connected together?
If answer is YES than HERE is your problem.
Chem. cells have un-equal chem. reaction, and in the minute when solar gives
them nothing, they happily discharging each other.
Lesson - is never leave bat. parallel unless they active /charging - discharging /.
Cure is simple the bridge between bat. will be open and solar can be connected to one of the bat. and
and second - third bat. is connected to first through Shotky diode
/a few bugs from Tandy/ with anode of the diode facing to solar.
I use this a few dollars diode splitter for many year, and if batteries are un-equally discharged, they end up perfectly balanced.
How complex electronic is need it to get perfect bulletproof result....!
I tend to agree with Chariot. The problem will be associated with the way you have wired the rotary switches. First check that the BEP switches are working correctly, the plate that moves as you rotate the switch can become disconnected so the batteries are not disconnected even tho the pointer is in that position. Not sure why you would have 3, one for house batteries and either a knife switch or another rotary for the starter battery is enough.
Do not use a 10 A serie A metre on batteries!
If you connect it wrong it will blow up and produce a nasty flash.... eventually start a fire! Also been DC current the reading will not be very reliable. You have a beautifull yacht so considere buing a decent multimeter that has a clamp. A clamp metre would set you to $300-00/500-00, a fraction of the cost of replacing the boat or the electrics. (Be sure it is AC/DC)
Hydrometre give you a good indication to find a dead cell in a battery but not a reliable indication of charge, a faulty battery could give you look a fully charged reading and discharge after 5 min use. I would use an hydro. just to check if the cells are balanced.
If a battery in an array is dead and you put a new battery to replace be sure the other are at least 80% good as it not a good practice to have batteries of diffferent condition in the same circuit, your array will be as good as the worst battery and the bad battery will damage the near new ones as it will have a high resistance.
Finally look inside the cells if the plates are not straight it is a good indication that the battery went very hot at one point, also do not overfill, check regularely and fill 1cm over the top of the plates.
Hope it makes sens!
Hi Ben,
I sympathise with your predicament. Whilst I agree with all the comments about isolating the problem first before changing anything, the real problem and frustration you have experienced (as indeed I did with an impeller problem which lasted over 12 months) was that absolutely none of the mechanics and shipwrights I consulted and who inspected the boat could tell me what was causing it. And for the life of me I don't know why? Very very frustrating. I have found getting help from more experienced owners to be more help so take advantage of the offers made on this thread. Try and get into a club that has members who do their own maintenance on their boats. As for my problem after consulting numerous engineers and on replacing and adding various bits I eventually ran into another owner who experienced exactly the same problem and we later found it was due to a dodgy batch of impellers produced at that time.
Ramona you must be the EBAY king.
I've just ordered one of pocket ones from your link, and had checked out the 12v led lights from a previous topic.
Perhaps you can start up a new thread and update it weekly with your ebay finds, for those of us who don't have as much time or luck finding gear.
Nice low cost meters there, Ramona. How can they manufacture, test, package, pay shipping to Australia and make a profit? Bless them they do.
Just a note of caution for potential buyers - the clamp meter in the link has an AC clamp only; ie. not for measuring DC amps. DC clamp meters are also available.
I suppose its not much use telling you guys, you get what you pay for.
So you want to spend $10 on a meter,
OK dont expect to find the fault.
