Hi,
My name is Laura and new to the forum. Have always been a huge fisho but now my partner and I have decided we are going to join the world of sailing so I would like to ask the following, extremely naive questions and please, would like everyone's opinion if you want to reply as we are now on a huge learning curve. We have always owned a Power Cat but have decided now wind is our friend and want to travel further afield in our boat. Doing this in a power cat with current diesel costs really make it cost prohibitive. We want to live on it for a minimum of 5 years so looking for something quite comfortable. So here are my questions, if I may please.
1. Does anyone have any experience in purchasing a boat from overseas and either shipping it over or sailing it over? Pros and cons of buying from Australia and overseas?
2. We have only just started looking at sailing cats (looking at 38'-50'). Any words of advice of what to look for, what to be careful of?
3. I came across a website where you can sail from either the US or Europe, in a big group, has anyone ever done this and if so, how did you find it?
4. Our sailing experience is really next to nothing so can anyone recommend a place where we can go back to basics and learn how to sail a cat? I understand there are many companies out there but wondering if anyone has had a good experience with a particular company.
So, sorry for my basic questions but please feel free to contribute any words of advice you may have.
Regards,
Laura
Hi Laura,
I hope you can acheive your dream and get into a yacht sailing.
Cats definately have more space & comfort compared to a monohull but unfortunately cost alot more.
We have been live-aboards for three years on a mono and look longingly at the many cats we have met & seen.
If your looking at cats I would strongly suggest looking at the market in Phuket/Langkawi. Many choices and the perfect place to learn / improve your sailing. (Mostly flat & steady winds with amazing places)
Many sailors terminate their adventures around these places & sell their boats. Friends brought an ex-charter cat there and were treated well by the charter company as they took procession.(also novice sailors) They learnt alot very rapidly.
Also being in Thailand/Malaysia there is a big sailing community that are always willing to help.
Having said that, one look at the US market and there are some bargins there. Just means you start your adventure over there!
Fair winds in the future
D.
Some time ago my wife and I made the switch from power boating to sail. Mrs would/will not get on a boat the leans over all day so we bought a cat several years ago.
With your questions I suggest you go over to www.cruisersforum.com There is heaps of info and people already asking these exact questions, search and read. There is also threads that follow people who have bought OS and imported to aus, there is heaps and heaps of great threads in the multihull section.
it is nice to get in close when staying at an offshore island, shallow draft means we can get right in near the lee beach and the wide beam keeps us stable. Look out and watch the monos out in deaper water rolling side to side all day and night....
and I will add, if you have no sailing experience, it would help to go to a school and do a basic intro course.
Then buy a cheap off the beach cat (older hobie 16 for example), this will teach you sail trimming and how a cat reacts to sea state (in a smaller scale) and being overpowered ect ect - it is different to a mono.
Then go do a off shore course.
Heaps and heaps of reading.
Maybe get yourself on a delivery trip as unpaid crew.
Hi,
Thank you very much for the advice and guidance. Have gone and joined that other forum as well.
So, what are your must haves when living aboard or can do withouts? When I look at the myriad of plans, I'm thinking I don't really need 4 heads :). I definately like the galley up and not down in the hull for some reason, well that reason being, I want to be in the middle of the action as well :).
This is a hugely exciting adventure we are embarking on and are being very careful with all of our research before we plunge into an expensive purchase. We are definately going to be getting lessons in sailing because I for one couldn't sail my way out of a wet paper bag as yet.
Again, thanks for your advice and please feel free to keep your opinions rolling.
Kind Regards,
Laura
Hi there,
There is actually a blog about a couple in a similar situation. They purchased in the Carribean. The blog has a lot of general info. I have been a fan for some time.
Check out: http://jjw47.blog.com/about/
Good luck, and I agree with the other posts, sailing schools have a lot of pretty easy courses, like Competent Crew, and Day skipper..... Relatively cheap
Cheers
Hi Laura
First and foremost, welcome to the world of sailing, pleased that youve seen the light, Lol.
The forums have plenty of very good advice and this one is brilliant, secondly, take the time to walk around marinas and talk to like minded (cat owners). you need to consider where you will park your purchase, on a mooring or marina, the later will not be cheap as you will most probably take up to berths.
Contact you closest Royal Yachting Association and start your "Day Skipper" course then venture on from that, there is so much to be learnt should you wish to bring a vessel back from overseas, being in a fleet does not make it any easier if the weather turns bad...?
All the very best and do not be afraid to ask this forum plenty of questions, where here to help.
Stephen
Hi Guys I will follow this thread with interest , I too am keen one day in the not to distant future to buy a cat and also learn to sail. Ive mucked around on small cats before , but want to learn navigation and open ocean sailing. Can any one recommend a good sailing school or person on the Goldcoast?
Thanks
Hiya,
Again thank you. Have gone and read that blog site from front to back, wow, what an adventure !! What I'm MOST excited about is that will be us very early in the year.
Right-o so dumb question incoming, why don't most Cats have a laundry? Is it a power/water thing?
I would also like to ask peoples opinion on what they think is the best type of sail set up. We were thinking we would be best served with just a main sail and a jib. My partner has heard "reef often and reef early". I have started to do a lot of research into sails so by the time we purchase a Cat we will know a little/a lot but I do prefer to hear first hand from those that already have experience under their belt.
Hi Laura, sure there are many more options, than courses or turning pages of handbooks.
Considering you already experienced cat. fishermans, transition to sailing can be as easy as
get a skipper on board for a few days. Basics are the the same like deep keelers, but some cats
have unique set up for head sail. Simply you have to see on your boat.
Don't stress too much, sailing cat. is simple and 90% she would be on autopilot anyway.
I can tell you that decent cat. has all you can ask for.
Choose the cat. & marina is you first obstacle.
There is no such a thing good cat. under 200k.
In your case, sea change , has to be something decent, my choice would be
locally well build Seawind 1160. I sailed Seawind 1000, but too short for coastal passages.
Laura,
Sometimes it's easy. Just work out your budget & pick your cat!! Lol
The closest Cat is 60'. Awesome. Has everything you could possible every need or want. Washing machine, chest freezer, Full-sized fridge.
But you've gotta have the coin to run it! Huge generator & water maker onboard.
Budget & costs go down along the line....
I would have a mono or a tri any day over a cat in the ultimate storm sea.
Monos self right, Tris can be self righted and Cats are a disaster looking for a time and place to happen.
Hey honey, is my asbestos suit still in the wardrobe???
Your right about a storm Cisco, but with modern advances in Meteorology etc we can certainly avoid the worst situations.
I'm curious thou... how would you right a upturned Blue-water Tri-hull??? Any one got a video?
I read once that Blue water sailors encounter extreme conditions less than 1% of their time onboard. That's about 3 days a year.
Where as they spend 80% of the time at anchor.
And the majority of yachts lack the lighter wind sails that they would actually use.
After 3 years I agree with all of the above....
Never had the storm jib out (worst storms we rode out with fully reefed main only)
Sat at rolly anchorage wishing we had a wide, stable cat with lots of living room
Sailed Thailand/Malaysia and wished we had a bigger main & headsail.
Only catamarans I have heard of recently that got in trouble all dragged during a big blow. Larger windage I guess.
Two in Thailand and two recently in WA (Jurien & near Mandurah I believe)
Again only my opinion.
D
I have no problem with cats and for coastal cruising and especially tropical cruising they are fine. For actually living on they are fine. The most common complaint with monos in the Whitsunday type of cruising is ventilation. Cats have plenty of deck area and roomy main cabins.
Friends have just returned from a cruise up the coast to Queensland on their expensive up market cat and it is now on the market. This will not be cheap though, its a 45 foot vessel similar to the 60 footer above. Like all cats they attract bad weather! Ever notice how they all complain that the weather went on the nose and they had a hard time getting anywhere. Another of our local cats, a high performance racing cat in the 40 foot range had to be rescued a few weeks back. Heading down to Jervis Bay for a regatta the Westerly was too much for her to enter the bay. With reduced sail she had too much windage and got no where, with the motors could not make headway. Had to call up for a tow.
Righting a Tri usually involves flooding one of the pontoons but in the case of most Piver Tris I think it would be almost impossible.
With Farrier type Tris (ie with folding pontoons) the leeward pontoon can be retracted and as the boat rolls over and the mast and sails surface the wind will assist the righting. Just have to be careful it does not blow it over again.
I remember seeing Mooloolaba Fire Truck at the marina years ago and she was fitted with permanent plumbing for the purpose of flooding pontoons.
Weta Tris are set up for it with a flooding hatch at the rear of each pontoon.
Select to expand quotecisco said..
Righting a Tri usually involves flooding one of the pontoons but in the case of most Piver Tris I think it would be almost impossible.
With Farrier type Tris (ie with folding pontoons) the leeward pontoon can be retracted and as the boat rolls over and the mast and sails surface the wind will assist the righting. Just have to be careful it does not blow it over again.
I remember seeing Mooloolaba Fire Truck at the marina years ago and she was fitted with permanent plumbing for the purpose of flooding pontoons.
Weta Tris are set up for it with a flooding hatch at the rear of each pontoon.
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Are you serious .your talking about a 16 ft tri .? I have never heard of a Tri bigger than around 25 ft self rescuing after a capsize .i have documentation of a Tremalino tri self rescuing (23ft) . if this were the case why would the big trans Atlantic racing tri's worth millions of $ which sometimes come to grief racing often get abandoned , when they do get salvaged ,iVe seen them use several cranes to right them.As for cats I have seen a video of a 30 ft cat self right after a capsize ,but how many cats do you see with a massive float on top of the mast and releasable side stays?
I would like to see a video of that cat righting itself off the NSW coast in a typical NE breeze of about 25 knots!
Although, I certainly don't have as much sailing experience as some others here and I could be talking complete b***t
But here is my 2c's worth:
1. We're talking about cruising not racing so the chances of capsizing, let's say a Lagoon, are fairly slim. Although there was a report of a capsized Spirited 380 (a high performing cruising cat) a couple of years back, which allegedly hit a shipping container at good speed and capsized somewhere in the Bight. With a hole in the hull a mono would have most likely sunk. Cat's don't sink, the keep floating. There was another report of a couple who abandoned their cat in a cyclone and they found the cat a few months later the right way up happily floating with no damage. I guess this shows that it takes a fair bit to tip them over.
2. As a cruiser you have the option to avoid storms or conditions that would get you into serious trouble, when racing you don't and you push the limit. But to capsize a cat you either need to surfing down a wave to fast and nose-diving or get into conditions where waves are breaking at a significant size. Strong wind with too much sail will more likely break the mast before capsizing a cat. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I believe the decision to buy a cat or a mono should not be based on self-righting ability. The pros, in my opinion, outweigh the cons by far in the mono vs. cat debate.
If budget is not an issue, the decision should be made based on where you want to be cruising. For tropical, sub-tropical and anything above the 40's, I'd go for a cat hands down (if a decent one wouldn't be so frigging expensive). But if cruising further south, rounding Cap Horn I would go for a proven steel mono - but their slow compared to a cat.
In regards to where to buy a cat, as someone suggested, Phuket or Langkawi are certainly an option, and you can start cruising in a great location immediately. But you need to rely in someone else's opinion for the condition before making the decision. Buying local gives you the option of viewing the yacht a few times before making the decision.
And of course, a sailing course would certainly be helpful in any way.
I've kept out of this one, as i'm biased and not interested in the typical mono/cat debate.
There are some good buys cat wise at the moment, though, like most boats, but it's worth knowing what your looking for.
For example,last year we had a family holiday in Port Douglas, and went on a twilight cruise, as the highlight of the holiday.
It was aboard a new Lagoon 620, wind was about 15-20 knots, and swell of around 1-1.5m im guessing.
On the way back, we were given the helm and ended up steering most of the way back.
Beautiful boat and finish, with twin wheels high up on an open bridgedeck, but sorry, it was pretty disappointing speed wise (around 6.2kts top from memory)
Under bridgedeck clearance was woeful, with the swell pounding pretty often.
It was still a great experience, but I had expected it would have performed better than it did, or at least have given faster boat speed than my own 30 ft boat which was less than 1/10 the price.
Lagoons are not really known for their performance but comfort with heaps of space with a bling factor but they are probably the slowest cats you can get. But 6.2kts in 15-20kts wind is a bit shocking - especially for that size.
Some of the good Australian build cats are Schionning, great performance vs comfort with good bridgedeck clearance. Some owner-build and some professional. I'd certainly consider one of these if I'd be looking for a cruising cat.
The video is of a racing cat and its selling feature is its ability to self right. Cruising cats are a different story and if you read my post further up, cruising cats cease to sail once the breeze gets up, especially if the destination is ahead of the beam.
When I was fishing I used to encounter large cruising catamarans on a regular basis, usually with dinghies on davits and surfboards on the deck. They always took a long time to sail past me while I was working.
Select to expand quotejev7337 said..
But if cruising further south, rounding Cap Horn I would go for a proven steel mono - but their slow compared to a cat.
This one is not steel but it is a mono and looks to be doing 20 knots or so. I don't think any cat would handle the pounding let alone do the speed.
Select to expand quotecisco said..
This one is not steel but it is a mono and looks to be doing 20 knots or so. I don't think any cat would handle the pounding let alone do the speed.
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I've often mistaken a Volvo 70 going hammer and tongs for a cruising cat too, common mistake that.
+1 ^^ Loosechange, pissed myself laughing at that one!
Good to see another thread gone off topic.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..DAMA said..
Cruising catamarans.....
This where they excel.
You make it almost sound like a bad thing
What about Tri,s , some of those corsair ones look the goods , and the dragonfly models. What are the advantages or disadvantages of tris over cats? I like the idea of being able to beach and trailer.
Select to expand quoteteatrea said..
What about Tri,s , some of those corsair ones look the goods , and the dragonfly models. What are the advantages or disadvantages of tris over cats? I like the idea of being able to beach and trailer.
From the original post,
"Want to travel further afield in our boat
We want to live on it for a minimum of 5 years
We have only just started looking at sailing cats (looking at 38'-50')."
Not quite sure how a trailer tri fits into that equation.
The Naysayers will always Bag cats and its an opinion based on what they read in a sailing mag in the toilet or a conversation at the bar of a mono based sailing club who's members wives have run away with a cat sailor because she didn't like walking on the wall of the galley while sailing.
The ^^ above ^^ posters have never owned a cat and have no idea what they are really like but I'll tell you this...... The past month's observations of sailing my 40ft cat from far north Qld to NSW against 25-30knot tradewinds yes to bloody windward I have found the ratio of monos to cats being four to one! favouring the multis!
Where are all the monos?
In the marina's bitching about how bad cats are!
Ask Raphael Dinelli or Tony Bullimore how good monos self right themselves (when they hit the ocean floor)
The anti cat bull**** is so eighties you guys get over it, They really are a great thing.
BTW Im typing this in a rough exposed anchorage (25 knots SE) and im watching the arc of the mono anchor lights doing their sickening dance in the sky and im feeling very sorry for the occupants, My anchor light is not moving at all!
