Hi to all
Still trawling the net seeing what is available
What are your thoughts on this one http://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/sailmaster-845-kan-walker-grp-herreshoff-h28-sloop/127635
Regards Don
You certainly pick pretty looking boats Don. H28's are very seaworthy boats, the only problem I see with this one is like most of what you have shown us, the price. This I think needs to come to about $1000 a foot to be dealable.
Surely looking interstate has to be a viable option based on prices in your home state.
I guess it is advertised for $32,500 but they are probably expecting to get in the high 20's
It condition in the photo's seem to be better than average and the only thing it doesn't have that i would like is a furling headsail
Does anyone know roughly how much it would cost to put a furler on to it and i assume the headsails would have to be altered to suit
The problem with looking interstate is the time and cost involved in going to look at something that might look good on the net but not in real life and if i bought interstate getting it down here
I looked at this one www.boatsalestas.com.au/sail-monohulls/sailmaster-845-eureka/133520/ the other day that is advertised for $29,500 and it is a bit tired looking and the one for $32,500 looks a lot better value out of the two of them with a more usable cabin layout because it doesn't have a V berth making the main cabin area a fair bit longer
Regards Don
Looks like a very clean boat but as LooseChange alludes to, price is everything. It's a buyers market, not a sellers.
Why not keep an eye out for boats on the market in Melbourne? That would certainly open things up a lot for you in terms of choice and price, and I doubt you'd have too much difficulty encouraging someone experienced to help you deliver it.
Select to expand quoteclaverton said..
Looks like a very clean boat but as LooseChange alludes to, price is everything. It's a buyers market, not a sellers.
Why not keep an eye out for boats on the market in Melbourne? That would certainly open things up a lot for you in terms of choice and price, and I doubt you'd have too much difficulty encouraging someone experienced to help you deliver it.
Your quite correct. That Mottle is cheap because the mooring fee per year in Port Philip and surrounding areas are so expensive. Its a lovely boat. When I sold my quarter tonner I had a buyer come up from Melbourne to look at it. He was keen but when he realised the annual mooring fee was going to cost him more than what I sold her for he withdrew. He sent me a check for $200 for my time!!!!
I like the 'glass H28s. Not the fastest boats about but seaworthy. Some about with quality gear and fit outs. Some also with a low entry fee.
Hi to all
I spoke to the owner (actually the deceased owners son) and the broker today and i was sent the full set of photo's (some are the same as what was posted on the advert) if anyone would like to take the time to look at them and see if they can see anything good,bad or ugly amongst them
His son said his dad bought the boat in the late 80's and it is all original as far as he is aware
It has not been out of the water for the past 18 months since his dad died but prior to that it used to be out ever 12 months for a scrub off and antifoul
The engine was removed and overhauled a couple of year ago and the head replaced due to corrosion issues
the engine is salt water cooled
He did not think the standing rigging had ever been replaced
The broker said it presented well apart from the where the genoa car tracks had been repositioned on the deck and the original position was still obvious
He said since his father passed away he had visited the boat frequently to air it out and run the engine
Thanks for taking the time to look and any comments whether positive or negitive would be appreciated
Regards Don
Well to start, it may be difficult to find cassettes for the stereo?
Seriously though, I question the positioning of the thru-hulls for the head. They are asking to be kicked into potentially breaking off. Rerouting would be a pain but I would consider trying to box them in or look at the very best fitting you can get to ensure a stray kick doesn't ruin your day.
Check out this website for some really good info on the way a thru-hull should be done:
www.pbase.com:443/mainecruising/replacing_thruhulls
You can get furlers for hanked headsails, not sure how much they cost or how good they are. Or, you can DIY:
www.rlyachts.net/tips-furler.asp
I would also budget standing/running rigging replacement.
Being an estate sale, I would offer something truly ridiculous; unless the heirs are into sailing!
It's going to need money spent on it for sure and that will be you, not the broker nor the heirs!
Looks pretty good Don, from the photos anyway.
Lots more room than the spacesailer 24 or 27, which I thought were good suggestions, as good as a compass....
And you can ask our opinions all you like, but you have to like/love/live with it!
Get a good survey is the best idea, out of the water, and if they don't find anything that's a deal breaker, get it anti fouled at the same time.
I woul suggest rigging would be around 4-6K depends on how much you can do yourself, or if you have any sailing mates that can help with that aspect, if the budget stretches, get the furler at the same time. Furler could be around 3k including modification to sails.
You could do the furler down the track. They are convenient, but we sailed without them for a couple of hundred years. And the forecasts are so good these days, that you can choose the right sail for the day. I like my furler because it gets the sail out of the boat and off the foredeck when anchored overnight.
Motor does look good, but for a broker to say it "presents as new" is a stretch in my book. That many hours, and that age of metal around salt water will never ever present as new again! Be great if you get another 5 -7 years.
That's my 2cents, knowing that any boat of that age will require maintenance the price should reflect this, and I agree with the above.....don't be afraid of making a low offer.
Good luck
Rick
Sigh....I love boat pictures like that bunch. Never been on many boats bigger than 20 foot. Was good to look at.
$4-6K for new rigging? I suspect that may be slightly optimistic. If rigging is a lot more than 10yrs don't even think about not replacing it straight away. I got a quote (Sydney) a while ago for new standing rigging, furler and most of the running rigging converted from wire to spectra halyards for a Farr 1020. I can't quite remember the number but I know it was a hell of lot more than $10K...
Nav instruments another major expense if yacht hasn't already got them ... I'm talking depth, speed log, & preferably masthead wind (direction & speed) instruments running on NMEA 0183 or 2000; these are expensive to buy & install. Of course these aren't compulsory like rigging but it means a boat without them is a lot more expensive (at the same price) than a boat with them.
Check it's got full set of nav lights, including deck and masthead.
The other money pit is re-doing the electrics if they've got any age on them. It's these expensive big ticket items that need to be factored into the purchase price of any boat you're considering. Oh, sails of course another big ticket item...expensive! Not just main and headsail, but light wind and downwind sails as well. Add new standing and running rigging and full set of decent sails onto the purchase price and see how the number changes!
If you're going to get a survey obviously don't use one recommended by the broker.
If you buy and decide to down grade the sounder could I have first option. I have the Lowrance version on my tender and another for my yacht. These are one of the most useful bits of kit you can buy. Coloured versions of the flasher sounders sell for about $800 on Amazon.
Like all the interior. The winches on the mast are going to be a handicap for a husband/wife combo as are the low tech main winches. Will need lazy jacks and a furler conversion for family sailing but they are things that can be done at anytime.
If you intend to insure comprehensively you will need a survey, otherwise I would not bother. The photos tell all you need to know.
Select to expand quoteclaverton said..
$4-6K for new rigging? I suspect that may be slightly optimistic. If rigging is a lot more than 10yrs don't even think about not replacing it straight away. I got a quote (Sydney) a while ago for new standing rigging, furler and most of the running rigging converted from wire to spectra halyards for a Farr 1020. I can't quite remember the number but I know it was a hell of lot more than $10K...
Nav instruments another major expense if yacht hasn't already got them ... I'm talking depth, speed log, & preferably masthead wind (direction & speed) instruments running on NMEA 0183 or 2000; these are expensive to buy & install. Of course these aren't compulsory like rigging but it means a boat without them is a lot more expensive (at the same price) than a boat with them.
Check it's got full set of nav lights, including deck and masthead.
The other money pit is re-doing the electrics if they've got any age on them. It's these expensive big ticket items that need to be factored into the purchase price of any boat you're considering. Oh, sails of course another big ticket item...expensive! Not just main and headsail, but light wind and downwind sails as well. Add new standing and running rigging and full set of decent sails onto the purchase price and see how the number changes!
If you're going to get a survey obviously don't use one recommended by the broker.
Not wishing to get into any arguments, if you want to get a full mast service, including painting, all new exit blocks and sheaves, and every bit of running rigging replaced, new wiring up to the mast head etc etc whilst the mast is out of the boat, yes it will cost you more than 4-6K. However, if you just need the standing rigging replaced on a boat that size....(as the comment was made that it was thought to be original, which I doubt) 4K would go pretty close. I think of my own ability when thinking about these things, and I wont pay a rigger for doing my running rigging as I do it all myself, at my age I still go to the masthead and replace my sheaves and mast head light bulb, run my own halyards etc and buy stuff in bulk online.
and the mast does not have to be pulled just to do the standing rigging as it will quite happily sit there held up by halyards whilst you are getting the stays made up.
A farr 1020 is a much bigger boat that would attract a higher cost for obvious reasons.
with regard to electronics, just for cruising around your own backyard, a good VHF and depth sounder are all you really NEED, the rest are luxuries on a boat that does not go to sea on a regular basis. My Ipad and Iphone have great programs that I have been using for a few years, a local chart, beacon to beacon, is fine for just a weekend up the broadwater or down to yamba.....and I don't need a wind instrument to tell me I am overpowered and it is time to reef. A good look at the forecast will give you an idea of what sail you will need on the day.
And as Ramona says, the mast mounted winches aren't much fun sailing 2 up!
Hi to all
Just a couple of questions
First of all the comment about the mast mounted halyard winches being not much good for 2 people
Just wondering what the difference is between mast mounted or cabin top mounted
If we wanted to raise the main and head sail i imagine i would have my wife point the thing into the wind under the engine power and i would haul the sails up by hand and finish it off with the winch
How is this any different to how i would do it with a cabin top mounted winch
Also Ramona are you saying the retro sounder is a good thing
I called a rigger today and he quoted no more than $4000 to overhaul the mast and replace the standing rigging
At the moment i am just doing the sums and if it looks ok i will see what sort of a offer i might give the owner
Thanks for all the feedback i really appreciate it
Regards Don
Not sure about the retro bit with the sounder. Yes they have been around for awhile. "Flasher" sounders are simply A scopes that wrap around. An A scope shows what's underneath the boat now, where as a lcd screen generally shows history, what you have just been over in the centre of the screen. The very leading edge is similar to an A scope but most people just look at the depth read out. That Royal will be Japanese made too. Nice piece of kit.
The way this vessel is set up at the moment you will have to have someone at the mast or on the foredeck any time there is a sail change or a reef needs to be put in or shaken out. This is fine for some people but may wear thin with the better half or even when sailing by your self. Notice the harnesses in the photos, they are for sail changes.
To convert to a slab reefing system that can be done totally from the cockpit and a headsail furler will not be cheap. Two speed self tailers will be a good update and win you a few browny points.
Our family had a Walker H28, ketch version though.
It was like a little ship.
Just IMHO, the sloop version misses out many of the best things that makes a H28 unique:
-The bowsprit to make the best of that sheer
- 'backward'facing wheel steering
- cutter rig, smaller sails, more flexible sail options
-solid dodger
- lots of timber to keep you busy
There's a bit of a following for them locally, they are pretty well looked after and are well maintained.
If I went back to a leaner, it would be a Walker H28 ketch.
Good luck, she looks pretty clean, keep us posted.
I agree, if there is just two of you it is much safer to be able to raise the main from the cockpit, particuarly in rough weather. Also to make thing easier self tailing winches would be a good inestment.
I called Club Marine today to ask for a insurance quote and to enquire if the boat is able to be insured with no record of the standing rigging having been replaced
The lady i spoke to transferred me through to the underwriter and another nice lady said there are 3 options
1-If the standing rigging is replaced they will fully insure the boat (the rigging needs to be replaced every 10 years)
2-A rigger can inspect the boat and if in his opinion the rigging appear to be sound he can fill in a club marine rigging form and send it to them and they will consider fully insuring the boat
3-If i do nothing and the out of water survey does not fail the rigging they will insure the boat with a exclusion on the rigging,mast and sails
If i take option 3 and the rigging fails and the mast falls down and injures someone they will cover the injury to the person but not the damage to the boat
I am inspecting the boat on saturday with my wife and the skipper (second opinion) of the boat i crew on, a old school gentleman in his 70's,(although still ultra competitive in a boat race) who has been sailing all his life and is held in high regard by the Tassie sailing community) so hopefully i can get a unbiased opinion of the overall condition of the boat
Regards Don
I have always pulled the main from the mast base.....best spot to hoist. A sounder in vision from the cockpit is the only way I would travel.
Agree, much prefer main halyard at the mast rather than the cockpit for shorthanded as long as you have reefing lines and topping lift there as well. Spinnaker halyards to the cockpit.
Select to expand quoteclaverton said..
Agree, much prefer main halyard at the mast rather than the cockpit for shorthanded as long as you have reefing lines and topping lift there as well. Spinnaker halyards to the cockpit.
Also agree. The act of putting the halyard through a 90 degree turning block reduces mechanical advantage by I think 50%.
Can't say it has affected us too much..though generally in smooth seas I bend from the main, while my wife steers and tails, then I come back to the cockpit to winch the last few inches from the cockpit. Has worked ok for us on our last three boats this way. In rougher seas I prefer to haul and winch from the cockpit.
What gauge halyard do you guys have on your main? Currently the boat I purchased has something that I would use on a dingy, pretty small size and I'm worried about it breaking under load. Should the main halyard be wire or rope?
Select to expand quotecisco said..claverton said..
Agree, much prefer main halyard at the mast rather than the cockpit for shorthanded as long as you have reefing lines and topping lift there as well. Spinnaker halyards to the cockpit.
Also agree. The act of putting the halyard through a 90 degree turning block reduces mechanical advantage by I think 50%.
That's why you use a two speed halyard winch.
SirJman rope is pretty universal for halyards now. I have two of everything in 10mm. Anything less would be a problem with clutches.
Hi Ramona or anyone else familiar with this type of sounder
I imagine the sounder displays depth by a needle or something moving around the dial with it using the inner or outer scale (depending on what range you have selected) and sets off a alarm if it drops below a preset depth but how does it indicates if a fish goes past it (how does it not think it is a peak on the seabed)
Regards Don
We went and had a good look over it today and it was pretty much as per the photo's
The only things that obviously in need of repair is the luff of the mainsail is torn in one small section and the luff rope looks sun effected at this point,the toilet plunger is stiff to operate and leaks past the shaft seal and there is a lot of green corrosion on the skin fitting where it attaches to the ball valve for the toilet water inlet
The next thing to do is to get it out of the water,wash it down and have it surveyed
If the report comes back ok we will go from there
Regards Don
we had our standing rigging replaced recently on a 27 footer, all wires replaced, no sheaths on mast replaced, new Furlex furler cost 4k
we had our standing rigging replaced recently on a 27 footer, all wires replaced, no sheaths on mast replaced, new Furlex furler cost 4k
Hi all
Still in the decision stage
One concern i have is the displacement of the boat
It is listed as 7,000 kg which seems to be about twice what some other 29 footers are
People tell me that these boats are very strong but i am wondering how this affects the speed and sailing ability expecially in light winds
Just wondering what to expect compared to my current Spacesailer 20 Fin Keel that displaces 861 kg (factory specs)
I know the increase in waterline length and sail area will make a boat faster but with over 7 times the weight what should i expect
What are the advantages of a heavy boat
Wondering if anyone on here has ever sailed one or something similar and what your thoughts are
Thanks in advance
Regards Don
This pretty much comes back to what was mentioned earlier. You have to identify what your after in a yacht and what it's going to be used for. I reckon your aiming for a boat to day sail and occasionally race with your wife as crew, spend the occasional weekend aboard etc. The main criteria is going to be a boat that's pleasant to sail, handy sized and above all have that view as you row away feeling. You row away home and look back at your yacht and think, damn that bloke designed a good boat!
The H28 is based on the Herreshoff 28 which has been around for a very long time and built all over the world. Originally a wood yacht and when built in 'glass they kept the weight. I have never sailed one but looked at them. I would put them in the same category as a Northerner 28/Compass28/29. They sail ok but not fast, I have only sailed a Northerner. They have a similar long keel set up. Not much good trying to go to windward in fresh conditions, especially with a slightly furled headsail. 25 knots of wind and some slop and you wont be happy.
The weight is not a problem. Take a bit to get going in the light stuff but will carry some momentum. Motion in a seaway will be much more pleasant than the Spacesailer. Ballast ratio will be about 50:50 with I think lead encased in the fibreglass keel so there will never be any leaks from there. This boat will be very durable. Check out the H28 sailing association for like minded sailers.
To my mind and I am of course biased, a 70's/80's half tonner is more suitable.
