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Forums > Stand Up Paddle General

All Paddlers Urgent Action Required

Reply
Created by CMC > 9 months ago, 6 Jan 2010
CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
6 Jan 2010 2:29PM
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NSW Maritime is at present considering change of legislation via a "Lifejacket discussion paper".

This paper willl affect SUP Paddlers and all small recreational watercraft eg 'Sailboards and Kayaks' proposes that Cat 3 PFD are worn in ocean conditions at all times more than 100 metres from land. This may go on to further legislate that PFD's are worn in lakes and rivers if more than 100m from shore.

This will obviously be an issue for a lot of people, if it is for you have your say on the links as below. Whether in NSW or not.

If passed this means you will have to wear a PFD on a sailboard or SUP at all times except for the surf. Inflatable versions ie Bum Bag do not seem to work as they require activating. Cat 3 is the same as worn on a Jet Ski etc.

There is also move for the legislation to become National, if you are not in NSW this does not mean it does not affect you. (PFD's in the Doctor race??).

WHAT CAN YOU DO?

Read the discussion paper and provide your feedback at:

www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/index.html

There is an online survey there to complete.

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
6 Jan 2010 2:30PM
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Oops, forgot to mention that submissions close on Friday the 8th Jan. (2 days!)

DILLIGAF2
218 posts
6 Jan 2010 12:48PM
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Bummer and I thought NZ was a PC Nation.

Good luck with getting that one stopped!

pmorgan1974
NSW, 1080 posts
6 Jan 2010 4:05PM
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Done.....I hope they will listen. Imagine trying to seriously train for downwind races either on a SUB or racing ski and having to wear a PDF..wallies

mikeman
QLD, 692 posts
6 Jan 2010 3:09PM
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Here is the critical item of the on-line survey:

You must wear a lifejacket when operating small recreational craft such as a sailboard, kayak, canoe, kitesurfer or similar craft:

1. IN SHELTERED WATERS, WHEN MORE THAN 100 METRES FROM AN ACCESSIBLE SHORE; AND

2. IN OCEAN WATERS, AT ALL TIMES.

I disagreed with both as this is silly!

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
6 Jan 2010 3:15PM
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mikeman said...

Here is the critical item of the on-line survey:

You must wear a lifejacket when operating small recreational craft such as a sailboard, kayak, canoe, kitesurfer or similar craft:

1. IN SHELTERED WATERS, WHEN MORE THAN 100 METRES FROM AN ACCESSIBLE SHORE; AND

2. IN OCEAN WATERS, AT ALL TIMES.

I disagreed with both as this is silly!



The AOCRA email we had (they are extremely concerned as it leads to OC1, OC2 and OC6 all having to wear PFD's at all times also) is as below as comment for section F most importantly>

As an outrigger canoe paddler and member of the Australian Outrigger Canoe Racing Association (AOCRA), I feel that any changes to legislation that will require Outrigger paddlers to wear PFD’s at any time will severely inhibit and likely result in the drastic membership reduction in our sport. Current AOCRA rules require all members to have a PFD easily accessible for each paddler on their craft, all OC1 and OC2 paddlers must wear leg leashes, and all approved canoes must comply with strict positive floatation regulations. Our sport has more comprehensive safety regulations than that of Surf Lifesaving, and as such, AOCRA members should be exempted in the same manner as SLSA.

mikeman
QLD, 692 posts
6 Jan 2010 3:50PM
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We need all of the SUP clubs around Australia to get involved with this so that we are properly represented. Please spread the word to all of the club committee so that we can speak as one voice on this.

theDoctor
NSW, 5784 posts
6 Jan 2010 5:52PM
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tell 'em to get stuffed.

anyone else sick of this nanny state...?

to fine you they have to identify you

how can they do that if you refuse to tell them who you are or you don't carry identification..?

i sup in a group on the lake, if all of us refuse to co-operate, what are they gonna do.... there is power in numbers and power in non conforming.

if the cops can't make me tell them who i am, some turkey with a maritime badge sure as hell can't.

boylos
NSW, 769 posts
6 Jan 2010 6:32PM
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Done... what a joke !

Whats next .... a line from your board to shore just incase you get into trouble and they can pull you back in!

Boylos

rogerthecat
188 posts
6 Jan 2010 5:57PM
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Good luck fellas.
We already have all this crap for inland water - permits, PFDs, access rights, blah, blah.
If we keep this up we'll be regulated to a standstill.

Secret Agent
QLD, 289 posts
6 Jan 2010 8:34PM
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This should not apply to Stand Up Paddle Boarding, Outrigger Canoeing or any other paddle or wind craft racing. The PFD is a cumbersome piece of equipment and can be a hindrance to the paddlers movements which can lead to fatigue and balance. I believe a leash of somesort should be madatory when racing in these categories. Most of these races and training areas are close to shore where lifeguards and water safety craft are very near by. Please don't destroy the infectious growth of the sport by making PFD's compulsory as this will be a big turn off and bad back lash from the sport enthusiasts and public.
Everyone, make your voice heard!

Scotty Mac
SA, 2055 posts
6 Jan 2010 9:44PM
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That rule has been around for windsurfing for 20 years......
Except for in a race, who is ever going to police it....
And when you get caught the first time, plead ignorance and you will most likely get off.

OG SUP
VIC, 3516 posts
6 Jan 2010 10:34PM
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Marine Saftey Victoria have been watching SUP evolve and are also considering whether to annex SUPs as vessels and not surf craft, especially when the race boards are approaching 20ft in length.

They will watch what happens in NSW very carefully.

They were seriously concerned about SUPs operating in the mouth of the Yarra due to defined shipping channels and the danger of passing vessels and the ensuing suction effect.

What we may see as safe operating conditions eg 40kn down winders they have a very different view!

I have discussed these points on several occassions with Surf Vic, SUP Vic members and others.

It will also come to a head in Victoria soon!

Phill

Casso
NSW, 3768 posts
6 Jan 2010 10:56PM
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Done.

I always make sure I paddle with a personal floatation device - IT'S UNDER MY FEET and it's unsinkable.

oliver
3952 posts
6 Jan 2010 8:30PM
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OG SUP said...

Marine Saftey Victoria have been watching SUP evolve and are also considering whether to annex SUPs as vessels and not surf craft, especially when the race boards are approaching 20ft in length.

They will watch what happens in NSW very carefully.

They were seriously concerned about SUPs operating in the mouth of the Yarra due to defined shipping channels and the danger of passing vessels and the ensuing suction effect.

What we may see as safe operating conditions eg 40kn down winders they have a very different view!

I have discussed these points on several occassions with Surf Vic, SUP Vic members and others.

It will also come to a head in Victoria soon!

Phill




It's one thing to make rules it's another to enforce them.

I don't think we have anything to worry about. No one is going to tip off authorities when the next downwinder is on by giving them start and end locations in the bay and the percieved danger they are in - are they?

If they don't know that, it's very unlikely they would risk their own lives and equipment to bust some bald, fat, 40+ yo doing a downwinder when the conditions are extreme.

Seriously WGAF. Let the big boys spend their lives making dumb arse rules and let the rest of us get on with living our lives.

Scotty Mac
SA, 2055 posts
6 Jan 2010 11:06PM
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Oliver,
I agree wit you again. Like sands in the hour glass...........

You got to put you hands on the wheels, on the levers,
You got to tell the people who own it, the people who run it,
If we are not free, we will stop the machine from operating at all...

Or something like that......

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
6 Jan 2010 10:39PM
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oliver said...

OG SUP said...

Marine Saftey Victoria have been watching SUP evolve and are also considering whether to annex SUPs as vessels and not surf craft, especially when the race boards are approaching 20ft in length.

They will watch what happens in NSW very carefully.

They were seriously concerned about SUPs operating in the mouth of the Yarra due to defined shipping channels and the danger of passing vessels and the ensuing suction effect.

What we may see as safe operating conditions eg 40kn down winders they have a very different view!

I have discussed these points on several occassions with Surf Vic, SUP Vic members and others.

It will also come to a head in Victoria soon!

Phill




It's one thing to make rules it's another to enforce them.

I don't think we have anything to worry about. No one is going to tip off authorities when the next downwinder is on by giving them start and end locations in the bay - are they?

If they don't know that, it's very unlikely they would risk their own lives and equipment to bust some bald fat 40yo doing a downwinder when the conditions are extreme.

Seriously WGAF. Let the big boys spend their lives making rules and let the rest of us get on with living our lives.


hi, what it probably means is no jacket no start by the race organizers, they would be liable. as it is they are asking for pfd, bumbag type pfd is allowable, but that might change for a no jacket no race. man, it get really hot even with a dark rashie on up here. hate to think what a jacket would be like
cheers

oliver
3952 posts
6 Jan 2010 8:47PM
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You're right Lacy. I didn't stop to think about the impact of those who race and compete. I don't concern myself in competing with others, so I guess it's much more of a worry for you guys than it is to people like myself.

Scotty Mac
SA, 2055 posts
6 Jan 2010 11:19PM
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PTWoody
VIC, 3982 posts
7 Jan 2010 12:02AM
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laceys lane said...


hi, what it probably means is no jacket no start by the race organizers, they would be liable. as it is they are asking for pfd, bumbag type pfd is allowable, but that might change for a no jacket no race. man, it get really hot even with a dark rashie on up here. hate to think what a jacket would be like
cheers



At the first RPS race at Elwood, I noticed race winner Lummers was the only one clever enough to wear a camelbak. I expect everyone will have one at the next race. I know I bought one the next week. Don't know how one would wear a camelbak AND a life jacket. I guess the authorities are okay with me dying of dehydration in 35 degree heat, as long as I don't drown as well.

oliver
3952 posts
6 Jan 2010 9:07PM
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laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
6 Jan 2010 11:54PM
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PTWoody said...

laceys lane said...


hi, what it probably means is no jacket no start by the race organizers, they would be liable. as it is they are asking for pfd, bumbag type pfd is allowable, but that might change for a no jacket no race. man, it get really hot even with a dark rashie on up here. hate to think what a jacket would be like
cheers



At the first RPS race at Elwood, I noticed race winner Lummers was the only one clever enough to wear a camelbak. I expect everyone will have one at the next race. I know I bought one the next week. Don't know how one would wear a camelbak AND a life jacket. I guess the authorities are okay with me dying of dehydration in 35 degree heat, as long as I don't drown as well.




you can get a jacket that fits a water pack. i think it was posted in the first doctor races topic. i brought a camel pack extra piece of tubing the has wetsuit material and a wire around it so you can hook it up near your mouth. sometimes it will bob around up to your mouth and i go might as well have a drink while ite there. its is good in the fact you can drink without your hands leaving the paddle
cheers

OG SUP
VIC, 3516 posts
7 Jan 2010 7:57AM
Thumbs Up

Thats exactly my point Oliver and i doubt it would effect us here on the coast for recreational purposes at all as we have little or no water police presence except in the middle of summer!

It will directly effect the way every SUP event., SUP school. competition etc is run insurance costs etc.

That aspect does concern me!

Phill

oliver said...

You're right Lacy. I didn't stop to think about the impact of those who race and compete. I don't concern myself in competing with others, so I guess it's much more of a worry for you guys than it is to people like myself.


OG SUP
VIC, 3516 posts
7 Jan 2010 8:03AM
Thumbs Up

Hey PT the paddle vests include a camel back pouch on the back.

Kristi and I use them in bigger surf at the bomies!

Phill

PTWoody said...

laceys lane said...


hi, what it probably means is no jacket no start by the race organizers, they would be liable. as it is they are asking for pfd, bumbag type pfd is allowable, but that might change for a no jacket no race. man, it get really hot even with a dark rashie on up here. hate to think what a jacket would be like
cheers



At the first RPS race at Elwood, I noticed race winner Lummers was the only one clever enough to wear a camelbak. I expect everyone will have one at the next race. I know I bought one the next week. Don't know how one would wear a camelbak AND a life jacket. I guess the authorities are okay with me dying of dehydration in 35 degree heat, as long as I don't drown as well.




Piros
QLD, 7079 posts
7 Jan 2010 8:41AM
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Just because it's called Stand up paddle board doesn't mean we don't lay down and paddle..... you can't do that with a life jacket, they are not targeting life savers on prone paddle boards or racing skies WHY ARE WE DIFFERENT? I have come across heaps of clubbies way out to sea when doing downwinders. There is no way in the world they will make Australian lifesavers wear life jackets.

We are attached to the board by a leg rope and we also carry a floatation device in our hands and we are on a stand up paddle SURF board.

Our boards are unsinkable unlike a kayak , ski , outrigger or small sailing vessel.


Rob

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
7 Jan 2010 9:07AM
Thumbs Up

Piros said...

Just because it's called Stand up paddle board doesn't mean we don't lay down and paddle..... you can't do that with a life jacket, they are not targeting life savers on prone paddle boards or racing skies WHY ARE WE DIFFERENT? I have come across heaps of clubbies way out to sea when doing downwinders. There is no way in the world they will make Australian lifesavers wear life jackets.

We are attached to the board by a leg rope and we also carry a floatation device in our hands and we are on a stand up paddle SURF board.

Our boards are unsinkable unlike a kayak , ski , outrigger or small sailing vessel.


Rob



SLSA already has an exemption from the ruling but only at official training or events.

This affects everyone, kiteboards, sailboards, prone paddle boards etc etc All outrigger canoes float also, AOCRA is seriously objecting to the new laws and will have more hope of receiving an exemption as per the SLSA as they have an organised body liasing with NSW Maritime and serious safety requirements to train and at events also.

Comments above are WGAF how can they catch me? Ummmm how about any organised race, club meet or busy day having a lazy paddle in the Pittwater, Estuary etc. Vic already has the law but common sense has prevailed with inflatable bum bag PFD's being acceptable. The NSW ruling at this stage is that they do not believe this to be sufficient.

But Hey, if you dont do something now, don't complain later. We live in a democracy, use it!

Brooko
1672 posts
7 Jan 2010 7:34AM
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I think the lamest thing ever about STAND UP PADDLE is kneeling to paddle , can you imagine how gay it would look people kneeling paddleing with a life jacket on, lmao.

I would lay down and paddle as you would on a surfboard if i was then approached by whomever about why i was not wearing a life jacket i would say "its a surfboard how can they define a sub between a mal I mean its a 9 6" 0r 8 6".

I would just lay the paddle under my chest and paddle off

Stand Up
WA, 73 posts
Site Sponsor
7 Jan 2010 7:37AM
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PFD's are required for The Doctor as they were last year.

Getting permission to race to or from Rottnest has always been difficult to obtain and be it Windsurf Kitesurf or Paddle PFD's have always been required on the vessel.

So don't forget your PFD next week.

Swanie
QLD, 1372 posts
7 Jan 2010 11:03AM
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Done. I hope QLD doesn't follow suit.

The need to think carefully about what craft and don't make a decission from a desk jockey or a person without experience.

Also people have to assume some responsibilty for their own actions and not be told by a NANNY STATE.

Dazzler75
QLD, 458 posts
7 Jan 2010 11:23AM
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Done.

Be very careful - surfing could be next.

mikeman
QLD, 692 posts
7 Jan 2010 12:03PM
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I do a lot of deep ocean paddling but already have plenty of safety factors built in. I am big on safety and actively encourage other paddlers to do the same. The idea of some kind of bouyancy system way out there is not a bad idea but this is already well covered by gear that we already use (camelbacks are already pfds, legrope attached to SUP etc).

I also carry flares, a first aid kit, high visibility clothing (as well as SUP and paddle), a whistle, a light etc etc. These are all things that I like to keep with me just in case something happens to me or one of my fellow paddlers.

This PDF restriction is taking things a bit too far, however, especially this silly 100m idea.

We need to object to this BEFORE it happens. Spread the word to all other affected water sport enthusiasts that this will also affect so that they, too, can express their protests.



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"All Paddlers Urgent Action Required" started by CMC