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Mount Clarence Station, SA, 5723
Blaxlands Ridge, NSW, 2758
Border Ranges, NSW, 2474
Greens Creek, VIC, 3387
Wellington, NSW, 2820
Parcoola, SA, 5417
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Forums > Stand Up Paddle General

Board noses rounded v pointed

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Created by sparki > 9 months ago, 29 Dec 2009
sparki
WA, 410 posts
29 Dec 2009 11:00PM
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I've been adamant about getting a Starboard SUP, but I've been looking for a second hand board for a long enough time to come to the point that I need to reconsider. I see all those daredevils on their SUPs at Pipeline, etc. and I notice they've all got the PSH boards or similar that have pointed noses. In Perth, when there is swell, many of the beachies can produce waves with fairly steep faces at times (usually when they are about to closeout, of course), and seeing as I may well surf those waves with SUP someday soon (hopefully), I'm a bit concerned that maybe getting a Starboard is not such a good choice, because of the lack of boards with pointed noses.

As far as I'm aware, the dynamics of a pointed nose on a surf craft suits steep waves far better than that of a rounded nose surf craft; correct? Therefore, in the case that I do end up surfing the larger waves Perth has to offer at some point - or even taking the SUP down to Margaret River, which of course requires a whole new level of surfing experience and gear, would it be wise to instead be investigating the likes of Naish, PSH and other brands that have some pointed nose options? I'm just unsure of whether a rounded nose Starboard would be able to manage steeper waves well - especially in the case of a late take-off or something like that! Any comments? I'm just making myself more confused as I think about it! haha coz if i did go for a pointed nose SUP, I wouldn't be able to nose ride very well if I ever had the chance, and many of the Naish boards that do have pointed noses, that are meant for riding waves have less than 30" width, which I know I'm not very comfortable with. Can you see what conflicts of choice I'm having? It's a bit overwhelming, and I'd dearly like some experienced opinions!

Thanks!

hilly
WA, 7430 posts
30 Dec 2009 12:43AM
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Horses for courses! Having one or the other will not make you a better surfer. Greenie loves the round nosed Starboards and rips as does Dave Muir. The skill of the pilot makes heaps of difference.

Your theories were correct. I prefer a pointy one either PSH or JL.

I believe sub 30 is the way to go for decent waves.

Kauaifiveo
90 posts
30 Dec 2009 1:07AM
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The ripper series PSH developed were made for riders who wanted more control in steeper faster waves. That does not mean that a wider nose cant surf steep waves, its just a bit trickier because of the tendency of wide noses to catch a rail. A lot depends on your skill level and the type of waves that the board will be used. Remember that pulled in noses are less forgiving of mistakes and usually very difficult for the novice. If you feel confident in your riding skills, I say go for the pulled in nose. You wont regret the high performance abilities of a pulled in nose.

JonathanC
VIC, 1021 posts
30 Dec 2009 9:56AM
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Funny you mention that Sparki I was thinking about the exact same thing yesterday surfing my Starboard 8'5 Pocket Rocket. My last board was a 9'6 Naish which had a far more pointed nose than the PR and I was kinda dreading the pearling. On shore wind and chest high beach break meant I had to get pretty close in to catch anything. So because I was thinking it was going to happen of course it did for the first couple but then I guess I just got used to it and everything was fine. Maybe it was the fact that I could just turn it so fast once I got going or I was stepping back sooner - who knows. Once you are on the wave the PR is just "stupid" loose.

So I hope there are other people with more experience than me that can explain it, I do know that the PR does feel very stable (probably more stable than the 9'6 Naish for me - I think the Naish felt "corcky" because I'm really light) . Intuitively the pointed nose makes sense (and I think looks cooler..) but you can bet Starboard have gone the round nose thing for good reason.

NC Surfer
142 posts
30 Dec 2009 7:01AM
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I think the nose and or tail rocker has a bigger influence than whether it's pointy or not.

Pointy reduces stability. Wide nose adds stability.

Wide nose throws you in reverse harder when paddling out through whitewater. Pointy is easier to punch your way out.

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
30 Dec 2009 9:23AM
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In my humble opinion and in agreement with NC above I believe that tail width, rocker and the hard edges (how hard and how far up the board they move past the fin) is far more important to performance in good waves. Seconded by rail shape and volume moderated with materials and their buoyancy. Nose shape is least important to these things.

Think about it, when you are actually riding the wave how often is your nose actually in the water? I watched a HP longboard vid last night and noted that these guys are all really riding shortboards being that they are really just shortboard fin setups, tail width, thickness and rocker with the same edges. The 9'2 of board in front of them is basically irrelevant until you consider swing weight in turns. They are getting barreled at Pipe and Indo and going vert and even doing airs. The extra length only exists for some nose riding and only really comes into effect in performance to inhibit turning speed because of swing weight.

Other than in steep drops your nose when you are actually on the wave is the least important factor apart from the swing weight factor which will depend upon how often you plan to be turning aggressively.

BUT, in this game the nose helps the board to be more stable when paddling, pointy noses are better for high performance but once again as in all surfboard design only relates to the other factors. SUP boards will always be a compromise between paddle stability, paddle speed and lowered volume for performance.

Kelly Slater has been riding round nose boards this year on the WCT, they have regular tails though.........

Scotty Mac
SA, 2055 posts
30 Dec 2009 11:39AM
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Not sure you could call Kellys boards round noses? They are just more rounded than other typical short boards currently. If you look closer,the overall width has not changed, just the shape from 1 foot forward the length and the tail width adjusted for the overall shape.

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
30 Dec 2009 11:38AM
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Scotty Mac said...

Not sure you could call Kellys boards round noses? They are just more rounded than other typical short boards currently. If you look closer,the overall width has not changed, just the shape from 1 foot forward the length and the tail width adjusted for the overall shape.


In comparison to his competitors they are radically different, the example was referring to nose shape relating to overall outline and that with a good tail and rails your board is not limited to its position on the wave.

I personally prefer a pointier nose but I understand that it is only relevant at certain times.

I have seen alot of people on badly shaped SUP with over thick rails and no tail edge not being able to use their rails while surfing, they instead paddle across waves to gain speed and pivot rather than bottom turn or carve.


Kauaifiveo
90 posts
30 Dec 2009 1:20PM
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I agree that the nose shape in the LEAST important factor in comparison to the rocker, rails etc.. But dropping in a steep wave with offshore winds are definitely trickier on a full nose board. Full noses catch the wind like a sail and on a late drop tend to catch a rail easier IMHO.

scott mckerc
WA, 284 posts
30 Dec 2009 3:31PM
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Personally I can't really see the whole point, (scuse the pun) of the whole needle nose direction.
As long as the rocker is right, a rounder nose doesn't have an bearing over whether the board is going to pearl or not.
By pulling the nose in, all it's achieving is reduced stablity, where you can have a far shorter board instead. Shorter, boards, fit into tighter pockets with less swing weight. Par example having a 8,5 with a rounder nose over keeping the extended lines to a pointy nose 9'0.
Just like blackadders broken pencil....

scott mckerc
WA, 284 posts
30 Dec 2009 3:41PM
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8,5 up north. No drama with stiff offshore getting in.



Scotty Mac
SA, 2055 posts
30 Dec 2009 6:51PM
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Hey Scotty,
How is it going mate?
Disagree with you to some extent. Mate of mine had a 8'5" pocket rocket for a fair while and I got to ride it a fair bit. (I assume this is the board your refering to)
Great board, your guys have done very very well. I must say it really suits allround conditions here in SA and the design works great in smaller and average typical days.
If the wall gets a bit heavy, the nose can catch a little when you come off the top. This is were the narrow nose boards come in to play. As seen in the laguna bay boards, you can do the round nose thing and not catch the nose if the overall nose and board width is reduced but the swing weight is reduced by rounding the nose also. I am not saying the 8'5" will not be ridable in heavy waves, as you have shown, the nose will just restrict how hard you can hit it. I think this is what Kelly Slater is doing also.

I have been working on a comprimise myself to try and get the both of best worlds.
Here it is;





Hope to see you at Margies for a beer.
Cheers Scott McCluskey

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
30 Dec 2009 7:03PM
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Kelly is following a path others have been following for a while. Regular tails with volume forward designs, wide point, thickness, width and nose shape. A bit like gluing the tail of your 6'5 round tail onto your retro Fishes nose. They are wider than a standard board and shorter. Volume is pretty similar. Had a very close at his Snapper Board from this year.

Neal Purchase Junior, Dan McDonald amongst others have had great success with these designs with a few friends claiming best board ever status.

Theory is volume forward for flow and glide with a tail that holds in the pocket rather than spinning out, holds in the barrel and still surf vertically while having the volume up front to flow in marginal conditions.

Much like the board you are shaping now, looks sick.

Scotts photos tell me something else I suspected, shorter boards are better in bigger waves. I rode a 10' x 28' RP PU in 6' good waves and spent every wave wishing i had less board and trying to wash off speed to carve a bit. Guns are for paddle speed, we don't normally have that problem. making even longer SUP for big waves would make the problem worse...... Saying all of that, if the waves are as good as this picture a SUP would be the last board I would be looking for.

JonathanC
VIC, 1021 posts
30 Dec 2009 9:55PM
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Not relevant to the surf - ability of pointed or round nose, but I did a down-winder today on my Starboard Pin and had to get out through a reasonable shore break. The "pin like" displacement nose just ate up the shore break, far and away the easiest trip out through white water I've ever had. Felt like I wasn't being pushed back at all and super stable, it was actually really good fun for a change.

Makes me think that a custom surf board with a fine nose like that would make some sense if you were just surfing shore break.

scott mckerc
WA, 284 posts
30 Dec 2009 7:19PM
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G'day scottie
yep. bout time we saw you over these parts again for some beers on the mezz.
I'll give you that with the 8'5 with the flyer that ones nose becomes a little much. That's not what i'm on in the pic. It's a proto.
But that board was produced quite some time ago now and there have been other versions of 8'5 and now 7'11 is pretty commonly used,(On my part) I'd couldn't imagine going with a narrow nose on a board with such short proportions.???
7'11 aint the shortest that has been gone either.7'4 has gone in and then there's shorter again. I wouldn't have believed it not long ago, but all is seeming possible from all accounts.
interesting times indeed



Bnaccas
VIC, 1722 posts
30 Dec 2009 10:44PM
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Yeah the round nose can catch after coming off the top in steep waves, I have found that with my board. Slightly more rocker would help or less concave but then you loose the benefits of the round nose.

I've pretty much finished shaping a pointy nose 8'8" which has the same rocker as my round nose 8'3". They will be very different boards. Once I get used to it I'll let people now how it compares to my round nose.

Scotty Mac
SA, 2055 posts
30 Dec 2009 10:24PM
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Hey Scotty,
Saw a pic of the 7'11", looks pretty nice. Sound like your on to it. I see what you mean about the shorter thing.
Good times I rekon...lovin the SUP

billboard
QLD, 2816 posts
31 Dec 2009 6:36PM
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I am no expert but I have ridden most of the starboard range and in anything from ankle high dribble to well overhead surf. I have never nose-dived a starboard sup (that I remember anyway) and the width has certainly never been a problem. The increased nose width in the starboards makes them very very stable and they get into waves and on the plane so much quicker and easier than many other sups. In bigger surf being comfortable and being able to safely get in earlier and be at maximum speed quicker I think is far more important than any other factor. I do concede that a pointier nose board may in some instances punch out through broken waves better but I can't see any other reason to want the pointy nose on my sup. I also ride the odd Laguna Bay sup and they, like the starbys have a much fuller nose and are almost impossible to nose dive also. As stated, good entry and tail rockers will have far more impact on the boards performance than the nose shape ever will. On a lighter side - if you are paying all those dollars for a sup - get the whole board and use it. I think that you shortboarders are frightened of getting a board that looks like a LONGBOARD, fearing it will make you instantly old and grumpy. (sorry grumpier)

hilly
WA, 7430 posts
31 Dec 2009 7:32PM
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billboard said...

I am no expert but I have ridden most of the starboard range and in anything from ankle high dribble to well overhead surf. I have never nose-dived a starboard sup (that I remember anyway) and the width has certainly never been a problem. The increased nose width in the starboards makes them very very stable and they get into waves and on the plane so much quicker and easier than many other sups. In bigger surf being comfortable and being able to safely get in earlier and be at maximum speed quicker I think is far more important than any other factor. I do concede that a pointier nose board may in some instances punch out through broken waves better but I can't see any other reason to want the pointy nose on my sup. I also ride the odd Laguna Bay sup and they, like the starbys have a much fuller nose and are almost impossible to nose dive also. As stated, good entry and tail rockers will have far more impact on the boards performance than the nose shape ever will. On a lighter side - if you are paying all those dollars for a sup - get the whole board and use it. I think that you shortboarders are frightened of getting a board that looks like a LONGBOARD, fearing it will make you instantly old and grumpy. (sorry grumpier)




Totally disagree try a JL Mano they work really well. The low nose volume and the rocker work incredibly well. Even on small soft waves they are in performance terms light years ahead of the big round nosed boards that do push water on steep drops and slow you up. I did not want them to work so well as I love my PSH's but after trying one I had too buy one.

Demo one if you can they are the ducks nuts



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"Board noses rounded v pointed" started by sparki