Forums > Stand Up Paddle General

Cork sandwich construction

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Created by foxsup > 9 months ago, 23 Dec 2011
foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
23 Dec 2011 6:38PM
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Has anyone had any experience with cork sandwich construction. Is Cabrinha the only company doing this, or have others done it before or also using it. I am interested in feedback on how the boards feel compared to say ast or wood sandwich (in the surf) and how they hold up in comparison.

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
23 Dec 2011 7:56PM
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Pine, balsa, bamboo, cork, coconut husk, What's next.. Recycled tooth pics?, and who's going to be the first to do a used match stick deck?..

DJ

foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
23 Dec 2011 8:02PM
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So - what you are saying is ........... you got nothin !


Oh BTW DJ - If I remember rightly Mctavish did a board with hemp a few years ago - cop that

Now stop being a knob and do what you do best - source useful and insightful information for me

sameh
WA, 310 posts
23 Dec 2011 6:03PM
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ive got a cabrihna 9.8 pro made of cork sitting downstairs waiting to be tested if we ever see swell again. Will post photos and review when the swell returns.

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
23 Dec 2011 8:05PM
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DavidJohn said...

Pine, balsa, bamboo, cork, coconut husk, What's next.. Recycled tooth pics?, and who's going to be the first to do a used match stick deck?..

DJ


there's talk of recycling pubic hair as an alternative to fibreglass cloths, but getting enough raw materials is a issue

62mac
WA, 24860 posts
23 Dec 2011 6:05PM
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foxsup said...

Has anyone had any experience with cork sandwich construction. Is Cabrinha the only company doing this, or have others done it before or also using it. I am interested in feedback on how the boards feel compared to say ast or wood sandwich (in the surf) and how they hold up in comparison.


So you don't know it all

foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
23 Dec 2011 8:08PM
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Thanks sameh - is it a brand new board and unridden as yet ?

I (and others) are keen to see how these things are gunna hold up compared to the c-series cos as you probably know the c-series is is on of the toughest constructions on the market - you just don't seem to able to kiil them.

BulldogPup
6657 posts
23 Dec 2011 6:10PM
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laceys lane said...

DavidJohn said...

Pine, balsa, bamboo, cork, coconut husk, What's next.. Recycled tooth pics?, and who's going to be the first to do a used match stick deck?..

DJ


there's talk of recycling pubic hair as an alternative to fibreglass cloths, but getting enough raw materials is a issue


Pubes????? .... I got bootloads how many kilos do they need?????

foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
23 Dec 2011 8:16PM
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BulldogPup said...

laceys lane said...

DavidJohn said...

Pine, balsa, bamboo, cork, coconut husk, What's next.. Recycled tooth pics?, and who's going to be the first to do a used match stick deck?..

DJ


there's talk of recycling pubic hair as an alternative to fibreglass cloths, but getting enough raw materials is a issue


Pubes????? .... I got bootloads how many kilos do they need?????


Every time I walk past Laceys I wonder what that smell is coming from his unit - now I know what the sneeky bstd is smokin'

BulldogPup
6657 posts
23 Dec 2011 6:18PM
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sameh
WA, 310 posts
23 Dec 2011 6:24PM
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brand new and unridden. First thing i noticed is that its actually softer on the touch than the hybrid. not spongey, but certainly more compression than the c and hybrid. The pro is also hand shaped, not machined. While supposedly the same dimensons as the hybrid or c the pro is markedly different in real life. The most visible difference is that the stepped rail is far more aggressive and carried further forward on the pro. I doubt it has the same volume as the c or hybrid and i would hazard a guess that it would be between 5 to 10 litres less volume due to the more aggressive stepping of the deck. At 105 kg i was probably a bit too heavy for the hybrid so im interested to see how ill go on the pro. Swell is forecast for christmas day so hopefully ill post a chrissy review of this and the 10.8 cabrihna. Ive taken the 10.8 out twice since i picked it up because its width and volume 34 inches and 190 plus litres means it will catch knee high waves. waiting for at least a chest high day to tru out the pro.

foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
23 Dec 2011 8:35PM
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sameh - I would have thought that the 9.8 would have been marginal at that weight as my mate is just over 90 and it was relatively comfortable for him but not a walk in the park. Have you tried the 10.2, it would be absolutely perfect for you I reckon - still compact enough in design to throw around but a very nice paddling and super stable board.
What you are saying about the differences intrigues me but we wont see new models here for another week or so, so will have to wait to check it out myself. Does the rocker look the same ? I am hanging to see the 9.2 in the flesh personally, it's very low in volume (on paper) for a board that size ?

sameh
WA, 310 posts
23 Dec 2011 6:52PM
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the 9.2 is a weapon! low volume aggressive looking. The agent here has a store full of the smaller pros. hes 115 kg and the guys he sells sups to are all big boys. Everyone stares at the pros but were all too big, fat, old etc to surf them. Didnt go down the 10.2 path because i already have 2 10 foot manas and psh hull paddler. Was looking to go smaller and more performance. on good days when the swell is clean and shoulder height plus the 9.8 cabrihna hybrid has been fantastic. As long as i dont move too far forward it surfs as well if not better than any sup ive owned. On crappy mushy days i surf a 9.6 allwave which is way more forgiving due to the wider volume nose and the 9.2 allwave which is loose and still super stable. During summer its almost permenantly flat in perth, so the 10.8 is the ripple riding go to board for places like avalon point or surf beach. Reading your posts i think your around 70 kg, then the 9.2 or even 8.8 pros would be awesome boards.

foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
23 Dec 2011 8:57PM
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sameh said...

the 9.2 is a weapon! low volume aggressive looking. The agent here has a store full of the smaller pros. hes 115 kg and the guys he sells sups to are all big boys. Everyone stares at the pros but were all too big, fat, old etc to surf them. Didnt go down the 10.2 path because i already have 2 10 foot manas and psh hull paddler. Was looking to go smaller and more performance. on good days when the swell is clean and shoulder height plus the 9.8 cabrihna hybrid has been fantastic. As long as i dont move too far forward it surfs as well if not better than any sup ive owned. On crappy mushy days i surf a 9.6 allwave which is way more forgiving due to the wider volume nose and the 9.2 allwave which is loose and still super stable. During summer its almost permenantly flat in perth, so the 10.8 is the ripple riding go to board for places like avalon point or surf beach. Reading your posts i think your around 70 kg, then the 9.2 or even 8.8 pros would be awesome boards.



Yeah mate, Im 70kg but only an intermediate sup'er and I am a bit iffy about 115 litres. I am very comfy on the small starboards of around 120-130 ltrs but like you say the 9.2 pro is a pretty aggressive looking board with minimal places to hide on it. Can't wait to see it in the flesh.

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
23 Dec 2011 9:22PM
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DavidJohn said...

Pine, balsa, bamboo, cork, coconut husk, What's next.. Recycled tooth pics?, and who's going to be the first to do a used match stick deck?..

DJ


I agree with DJ, rather than just focussing upon the cheapest timber veneer source from Bangladesh or wherever to decide their next years 'innovation' all companies should just use PVC foam in identical layups like the last 10 years and claim it as their own groundbreaking 'composite technology'

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
23 Dec 2011 10:32PM
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foxsup said...

So - what you are saying is ........... you got nothin !


Oh BTW DJ - If I remember rightly Mctavish did a board with hemp a few years ago - cop that

Now stop being a knob and do what you do best - source useful and insightful information for me


Bugger.. I missed Hemp.. .. I wonder if they could use belly button lint?

and yeah.. I've got nothin.. .. Just getting the ball rolling for ya..

DJ

hilly
WA, 7279 posts
23 Dec 2011 9:02PM
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sameh said...

the 9.2 is a weapon! low volume aggressive looking. The agent here has a store full of the smaller pros. hes 115 kg and the guys he sells sups to are all big boys. Everyone stares at the pros but were all too big, fat, old etc to surf them. Didnt go down the 10.2 path because i already have 2 10 foot manas and psh hull paddler. Was looking to go smaller and more performance. on good days when the swell is clean and shoulder height plus the 9.8 cabrihna hybrid has been fantastic. As long as i dont move too far forward it surfs as well if not better than any sup ive owned. On crappy mushy days i surf a 9.6 allwave which is way more forgiving due to the wider volume nose and the 9.2 allwave which is loose and still super stable. During summer its almost permenantly flat in perth, so the 10.8 is the ripple riding go to board for places like avalon point or surf beach. Reading your posts i think your around 70 kg, then the 9.2 or even 8.8 pros would be awesome boards.


looks good at 131l it will float you fine. I have the JL Kwad at 130l and it is easy

paddlepop
QLD, 209 posts
24 Dec 2011 5:50AM
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there was this great looking clubbie ski on www.surfski.info a couple of years ago

i don't know how to add a link here but if you go there and drop down the review tab then onto skis and stuff it's down the bottom under "review green 7"

when your in there, down the bottom there's a link to "more info on the cork" and that is a fantastic doc on cork composites well worth the search

even better if someone could do a direct link from here

pete


foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
24 Dec 2011 7:39PM
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This is, I hope, the link to the article about cork.

Hey cmc - if I can get some info' from cabrinha about what type of cork they use can you decipher what's in the article and translate it into simple speak that us laypersons can understand in relation to the stand up paddle board ? (pretty please)

www.surfski.info/images/stories/2010/02/Green7/ACC_Composite.pdf

foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
27 Dec 2011 10:44AM
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sameh said...

the 9.2 is a weapon! low volume aggressive looking. The agent here has a store full of the smaller pros. hes 115 kg and the guys he sells sups to are all big boys. Everyone stares at the pros but were all too big, fat, old etc to surf them. Didnt go down the 10.2 path because i already have 2 10 foot manas and psh hull paddler. Was looking to go smaller and more performance. on good days when the swell is clean and shoulder height plus the 9.8 cabrihna hybrid has been fantastic. As long as i dont move too far forward it surfs as well if not better than any sup ive owned. On crappy mushy days i surf a 9.6 allwave which is way more forgiving due to the wider volume nose and the 9.2 allwave which is loose and still super stable. During summer its almost permenantly flat in perth, so the 10.8 is the ripple riding go to board for places like avalon point or surf beach. Reading your posts i think your around 70 kg, then the 9.2 or even 8.8 pros would be awesome boards.



Did you actually try a 10.2 ? Would love to hear your thoughts on it compared to the 9.8. I just LOVE the 9.8 but a little more paddle speed would be nice for me in a 10ft board without sacrificing surfability, and I hear the 10.2 achieves that. I have a fantastic surf sup and am looking to add a longer board for carting the dog around and still being a handy surfer - I know what you are gunna say "if you love the 9.8 so much" hahaha - yeah hard board not to buy I know. I also want the 9.2 pro, but that aint gunna happen although Im sure the dog would learn to live with the lack of space

foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
27 Dec 2011 10:48AM
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hilly said...

sameh said...

the 9.2 is a weapon! low volume aggressive looking. The agent here has a store full of the smaller pros. hes 115 kg and the guys he sells sups to are all big boys. Everyone stares at the pros but were all too big, fat, old etc to surf them. Didnt go down the 10.2 path because i already have 2 10 foot manas and psh hull paddler. Was looking to go smaller and more performance. on good days when the swell is clean and shoulder height plus the 9.8 cabrihna hybrid has been fantastic. As long as i dont move too far forward it surfs as well if not better than any sup ive owned. On crappy mushy days i surf a 9.6 allwave which is way more forgiving due to the wider volume nose and the 9.2 allwave which is loose and still super stable. During summer its almost permenantly flat in perth, so the 10.8 is the ripple riding go to board for places like avalon point or surf beach. Reading your posts i think your around 70 kg, then the 9.2 or even 8.8 pros would be awesome boards.


looks good at 131l it will float you fine. I have the JL Kwad at 130l and it is easy



Hey Hilly - what's 131 litres ? The cabrina ? - I thought they were 115 ?

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
27 Dec 2011 1:24PM
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foxsup said...



Hey cmc - if I can get some info' from cabrinha about what type of cork they use can you decipher what's in the article and translate it into simple speak that us laypersons can understand in relation to the stand up paddle board ? (pretty please)



Cork is nice and lightweight and softer and more flexible than PVC. PVC is always popular as it is very strong for its weight, it is however very expensive. Matt Biolis was also using cork in his shortboards as he liked the flex and the Cabrinha site also mentions flex as a property of its Cork boards.

The advantage would be that it is light and adds strength over just laminated EPS particularly in lighter grades light 15gm or the like that they use in these kinds of boards. It would not be as strong as PVC but have more flex. I would imagine it also having a greater amount of flex to other veneers also. This could be a good thing.

The negative would be that it would not be as bullet proof as PVC, more aimed perhaps at more high performance surfers focused upon performance and weight over durability.

I know a lot of people don't believe SUP boards flex or that it has anything to do with performance but I think this is incorrect. I was talking to a guy the other day in the carpark looking at my SUP. He asked me if I thought SUP's are too thick to flex, I flipped it over and put a foot lightly on the bottom, the board flexed easily, with full body weight and speed from a wave it would be bending more than you can imagine, it's how the board rebounds out of a turn along with the fins recoiling after they also flex that is the slingshot effect (most people call it twang) you feel on a good board. Stiff boards just exit the turn, no slingshot...... I think Carbrinha is tying to find a medium to offer this high performance flex character with durability.

foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
27 Dec 2011 2:10PM
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Thanks heaps chris. I take it you are also perhaps curious then, as I am whether these boards are in fact gunna deliver performance that is noticable and beneficial to the average sup surfer.

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
27 Dec 2011 3:19PM
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foxsup said...

Thanks heaps chris. I take it you are also perhaps curious then, as I am whether these boards are in fact gunna deliver performance that is noticable and beneficial to the average sup surfer.


When I used to work for FCS I heard repeatedly that people didn't think they could surf well enough to feel the difference between fins. When you took the time to change them or they test drove a set even average ability surfers can feel it. While it's important to ride equipment that matches or pushes your ability i reckon people will feel the difference in different construction types from intermediate onwards.

Unfortunately a lot of what is marketed by companies and retailers as the top end or 'production' is not what is the best but the most profitable.

hilly
WA, 7279 posts
27 Dec 2011 2:00PM
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looks good at 131l it will float you fine. I have the JL Kwad at 130l and it is easy

Hey Hilly - what's 131 litres ? The cabrina ? - I thought they were 115 ?


thought we were talking about the cab 9 8, I am 105kg and ride the JL at 130l

Cabrinha 9 8

Construction:2lb (density) EPS core with stringer. Bamboo veneer deck reinforcement. Clear Epoxy resin, vacuum laminated. Painted finish. Custom cut 5 mm EVA footpads. Countersunk carry handle.

Size: 9'8 long* Almost 30′ Wide by 4.2″ Thick.

Fins: Standard 10” tail fin box. 7″ glass fin. Future Fin System 3.25″ side fins. Two additional Future Fin System boxes for optional quad configuration.

Volume: 132l

Weight: +- 12kg

foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
27 Dec 2011 4:57PM
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hilly said...


looks good at 131l it will float you fine. I have the JL Kwad at 130l and it is easy

Hey Hilly - what's 131 litres ? The cabrina ? - I thought they were 115 ?


thought we were talking about the cab 9 8, I am 105kg and ride the JL at 130l

Cabrinha 9 8

Construction:2lb (density) EPS core with stringer. Bamboo veneer deck reinforcement. Clear Epoxy resin, vacuum laminated. Painted finish. Custom cut 5 mm EVA footpads. Countersunk carry handle.

Size: 9'8 long* Almost 30′ Wide by 4.2″ Thick.

Fins: Standard 10” tail fin box. 7″ glass fin. Future Fin System 3.25″ side fins. Two additional Future Fin System boxes for optional quad configuration.

Volume: 132l

Weight: +- 12kg



Hilly - Ive not seen those figures before. The only dimensions I have seen on the 9.8 say 9.8 x32 and about 155ltrs ?

standupper
387 posts
27 Dec 2011 4:34PM
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foxsup said...

hilly said...


looks good at 131l it will float you fine. I have the JL Kwad at 130l and it is easy

Hey Hilly - what's 131 litres ? The cabrina ? - I thought they were 115 ?


thought we were talking about the cab 9 8, I am 105kg and ride the JL at 130l

Cabrinha 9 8

Construction:2lb (density) EPS core with stringer. Bamboo veneer deck reinforcement. Clear Epoxy resin, vacuum laminated. Painted finish. Custom cut 5 mm EVA footpads. Countersunk carry handle.

Size: 9'8 long* Almost 30Œ Wide by 4.2 Thick.

Fins: Standard 10h tail fin box. 7 glass fin. Future Fin System 3.25 side fins. Two additional Future Fin System boxes for optional quad configuration.

Volume: 132l

Weight: +- 12kg



Hilly - Ive not seen those figures before. The only dimensions I have seen on the 9.8 say 9.8 x32 and about 155ltrs ?


Cabrinha website definitely says:


9'8" x 31 1/2" x 4 3/8" 152L

sameh
WA, 310 posts
27 Dec 2011 5:00PM
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Hilly youre looking at last years cabrinha. The current model is 2 inches thicker, and just generally better put together. Got a gopro for christmas and have stuck it on the cab 9.8 pro. They come preconfigured with a plug foe the gopro. Should we ever see surf again ill post the vids.

foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
27 Dec 2011 7:03PM
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CMC said...

foxsup said...

Thanks heaps chris. I take it you are also perhaps curious then, as I am whether these boards are in fact gunna deliver performance that is noticable and beneficial to the average sup surfer.


When I used to work for FCS I heard repeatedly that people didn't think they could surf well enough to feel the difference between fins. When you took the time to change them or they test drove a set even average ability surfers can feel it. While it's important to ride equipment that matches or pushes your ability i reckon people will feel the difference in different construction types from intermediate onwards.

Unfortunately a lot of what is marketed by companies and retailers as the top end or 'production' is not what is the best but the most profitable.


I know exactly what you are saying, and I guess we will know the answers in due course when the boards arrive in some numbers and are tested by plebs like us to see if its genuine development or just marketing. I'm gunna grovel bigtime to get hold of one to test up against a similar sized board to see if I can notice any difference.

Hey, whilst you are being helpful - is there any way to test the volume of a sup ? Is it as simple as sticking it in a pool and seeing how much water it displaces or would you have to have a mould (not sure bout that spelling) and fill it up to gauge how many litres to fill it or WHAT ?

hilly
WA, 7279 posts
27 Dec 2011 7:12PM
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Ok got you! at 152l it will be too corky to surf well on decent waves go for the 2010 model

foxsup
QLD, 218 posts
27 Dec 2011 9:50PM
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hilly said...

Ok got you! at 152l it will be too corky to surf well on decent waves go for the 2010 model


I think the 9.8 will be ok, but the pro models will definately be corky



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"Cork sandwich construction" started by foxsup