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Modella, VIC, 3816
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Forums > Stand Up Paddle General

Downwind fins

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Created by hilly > 9 months ago, 6 May 2010
hilly
WA, 7473 posts
6 May 2010 7:07PM
Thumbs Up

Just got a 14' Glide had one downwinder in marginal conditions 8k with 10 to 12 knots. Have done about a half dozen downwinders before on a PSH 12er so no expert.

I used the Futures dolphin fin below not the stock. Board paddled well on the flat and upwind.

However I was a bit under whelmed by the Glides willingness to catch runners but I am 108kg and there was not much wind. Belly was cruising on a JL Albatross but he is 65kg.[}:)]

Obviously will try the stock fin but interested in the discussion as it has come up as a side issue in some other threads.

So the question of the experts is which of these fins would be best and is there a magic fin that will transform the board into a downwinding masterpiece????


DavidJohn
VIC, 17510 posts
6 May 2010 9:43PM
Thumbs Up

IMO.. that 8 1/2" fin is a bit small for that board.

I use the big 10 1/2" fin that comes on the 11'6" amd 11'4" Naish boards and I think it works really well.

You could go down to a 9 1/2" or 10" but I wouldn't go smaller.

Watch were you're standing when you are trying to catch runners.. You're probably standing a little too far back.

We found that the magic spot to stand is with your toes touching the smooth front section of deck grip.. and move back once you catch one.

DJ

surf4fun
WA, 1313 posts
6 May 2010 7:46PM
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Hilly doing down winders........

Who would hav ever thought it.

Piros
QLD, 7065 posts
6 May 2010 9:51PM
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Hey DJ what about some of the earlier wind surfer dagger style fins have you tried them in a DW'er , weren't they originally designed to give some tail lift ?

Rob

DavidJohn
VIC, 17510 posts
6 May 2010 10:08PM
Thumbs Up

Piros said...

Hey DJ what about some of the earlier wind surfer dagger style fins have you tried them in a DW'er , weren't they originally designed to give some tail lift ?

Rob


Tail lift.. or sail lift..

Dagger style fins are great for high speeds and going up wind (and I'm talking upwind Windsurfing.. not paddling)... and IMO that's all they're good for.. I don't think they work well when going off the wind or down wind (windsurfing).. and not that great for slower speeds.

What do we do?.. We go down wind and pretty slow speeds.. So I don't get it.. They do look cool and have slightly less drag but they also make the board want to rail up when going fast off the wind.. and I've had plenty of fin cuts from when I've accidentally kicked the fin.. You could slice a loaf of bread with them.

The thing I hate the most about them is the noise they make when you drag them across the sand in shallow water.. In fact they don't like to be dragged at all and are also very pron to get damaged if they ever touch a rock or anything hard.

You can't beat a good dolphin shaped fin .. Maybe keep the beautiful Naish dagger fin for races that don't go near shallow water.. Also the deep vertical dagger fin might also make the board slightly more stable if you find it a bit narrow and wobbly.

DJ

hilly
WA, 7473 posts
6 May 2010 8:17PM
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Certainly improved when I moved forward no probs with the nose digging in.

So the stock dagger is not so good, looked a bit suss.

Anyone got a 10" Naish fin from a 11 6 or 11 4 going cheap????

hilly
WA, 7473 posts
6 May 2010 8:22PM
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surf4fun said...

Hilly doing down winders........

Who would hav ever thought it.


Really warming up for summer when there is no swell but 20knots everyday. Need to exercise kiting is too sedentary without swell.

This coast is always bloody onshore so might as make the most of it.

Just got to get the right run. Hillaries to Mullaloo looks ok a little short though need a driver so we can do it 3 times.

Will try City Beach to Trigg with the kiters next season.

Piros
QLD, 7065 posts
6 May 2010 10:35PM
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What about a modified keel fin it might be more drag in the flat but out at sea wouldn't this give more tail lift to pick up runners ?

Rob



hilly
WA, 7473 posts
6 May 2010 8:41PM
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Piros said...

What about a modified keel fin it might be more drag in the flat but out at sea wouldn't this give more tail lift to pick up runners ?

Rob


Got this out the back reckon I should fit it



lookielookie
QLD, 347 posts
6 May 2010 10:41PM
Thumbs Up

Piros said...

What about a modified keel fin it might be more drag in the flat but out at sea wouldn't this give more tail lift to pick up runners ?

Rob






cant coment on the down wind side of things. But i stuck a winged keel on my 8'9' and it inproved the stabiliyty 2 fold. Felt like it was sucking onto the water. Was great in clean conditions, but when it mushed up, it bogged down a bit!!!
could translate into a good downwind fin with the right board and conditions

Piros
QLD, 7065 posts
6 May 2010 10:45PM
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hilly said...

Select to expand quote
Piros said...








What the hell was that off ?

cRAZY Canuk
NSW, 2528 posts
6 May 2010 10:46PM
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hilly said...

Got this out the back reckon I should fit it





I think it needs winglets

surf4fun
WA, 1313 posts
6 May 2010 8:55PM
Thumbs Up

hilly said...

surf4fun said...

Hilly doing down winders........

Who would hav ever thought it.


Really warming up for summer when there is no swell but 20knots everyday. Need to exercise kiting is too sedentary without swell.

This coast is always bloody onshore so might as make the most of it.

Just got to get the right run. Hillaries to Mullaloo looks ok a little short though need a driver so we can do it 3 times.

Will try City Beach to Trigg with the kiters next season.


City Beach to Trigg you are just starting to have fun. City Beach to Hillaries is fun or Cott/Swanbourne to Trigg is also fun.

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
6 May 2010 11:50PM
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hilly, at this stage of the game,no one really knows whats best imo- they are still trying to work the boards out yet. shapers' the axe' is going well in my 14'
cheers

hilly
WA, 7473 posts
6 May 2010 9:56PM
Thumbs Up

laceys lane said...

hilly, at this stage of the game,no one really knows whats best imo- they are still trying to work the boards out yet. shapers' the axe' is going well in my 14'
cheers


I saw that on another thread how does it help over a smaller fin? Can you paddle harder due to less slippage?

Got a big naish fin to try from an 11 4, thanks Craig, will try that next week.

hilly
WA, 7473 posts
7 May 2010 6:47AM
Thumbs Up

Holy crap 15" that's a long fin. Interesting shape though, would be good to hear from someone who has tried one.


Another option www.wavegrinder.com/ AA at Balmoral will have these soon very scientific approach Worth a try

Zimbo Reagan
WA, 469 posts
7 May 2010 9:58AM
Thumbs Up

hilly said...

Holy crap 15" that's a long fin. Interesting shape though, would be good to hear from someone who has tried one.


Another option www.wavegrinder.com/ AA at Balmoral will have these soon very scientific approach Worth a try


Heh Hilly Stewart (SF?) has one of those fins.

I tried it on his 11'2 the other day while out surfing and (when taking into account the placebo effect and powerbalance band) felt did did provide a little lift when you just started to take off on a wave and just a bit lighter and loser in the turns.

Have not tried for downwind but may be good.

DId you beat Belly on his Albatross? He is quick even though he is just but skin and bones.

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
7 May 2010 2:34PM
Thumbs Up

hilly said...

laceys lane said...

hilly, at this stage of the game,no one really knows whats best imo- they are still trying to work the boards out yet. shapers' the axe' is going well in my 14'
cheers


I saw that on another thread how does it help over a smaller fin? Can you paddle harder due to less slippage?

Got a big naish fin to try from an 11 4, thanks Craig, will try that next week.


i tried some big a"se fins, but the drag is too much. the futures race fin is fast, but no much help on my 25and 5/8 14'. the axe is good. i played around sliding the fin back and froth. it's faster with it forward, but the board is hard to hold to a line. all the way back and it tracks better, can put more foot power on the rail, but is a little slower and the nose rocker is more out of the water.i have left it 20 mm or so from the back of the box. as i train with jacko and co in the mornings, i get a fair idea of what good speed is. i would rather be able to paddle harder at the back end of a a training distance than have to back off to nurse the board, nursing a board straight takes away from your speed and is hard work.
cheers

hilly
WA, 7473 posts
7 May 2010 1:43PM
Thumbs Up

Zimbo Reagan said...

hilly said...

Holy crap 15" that's a long fin. Interesting shape though, would be good to hear from someone who has tried one.


Another option www.wavegrinder.com/ AA at Balmoral will have these soon very scientific approach Worth a try


Heh Hilly Stewart (SF?) has one of those fins.

I tried it on his 11'2 the other day while out surfing and (when taking into account the placebo effect and powerbalance band) felt did did provide a little lift when you just started to take off on a wave and just a bit lighter and loser in the turns.

Have not tried for downwind but may be good.

DId you beat Belly on his Albatross? He is quick even though he is just but skin and bones.


In light wind I think Belly would whip my ass he just floated of with the ripples. Really was a social paddle so hard to tell and literally my 6 or 7th downwinder.

Time will tell and if I can load 3 bags of cement on to his board to bring him close to my weight I may have a chance.

OG SUP
VIC, 3516 posts
7 May 2010 4:09PM
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Hey Hilly,

At 105 - 108 I havent found a board yet that works for me in serious cross chop.

Also the boards I have tried make you move 14 - 18 inches forward of the handle to get speed then the ass sticks up in the air the fin slips out and bingo your taking a bath.

Maybe thats why the futures fin is 15 inched deep.

Maybe uncle Blaine might make something for the Big Druddas?

Phill

hilly
WA, 7473 posts
7 May 2010 7:22PM
Thumbs Up

Jeez I love this forum

Ask question get good advice Thanks guys

Bigger fin and standing forward helped heaps went much better today

Asked for fin Got 2 offers legends

Phill I am hearing you about the weight. Funny think was I was quicker than Belly on the 16 footer today. Dramas with his steering helped me

You will be glad to know the 14 footer surfs a treat not the loosest thing in the world though. Caught a few at Mettams on the way down the coast. Was a worry to see Belly on the DC16 wiping out snapping a leggy and board heading towards rocks All good in the end

oliver
3952 posts
7 May 2010 9:14PM
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How tall are you Hilly? Maybe it's time to lose some fkn weight?

Good question though. I don't like the standard fin on my 14' either - seems a bit windsurferish to me. I'm thinking of putting on one of those big arse Jimmy Lewis fins. The advice of standing forward on the 14' Naish is valid. To get speed you want to keep the nose closer to the water, and as that board has such a big rocker on it then you need to go further forward. The nose rocker is actually a great thing on the d/w's I've done in the more extreme conditions as it helps keep the nose from plowing under the waves and cutting through the water when it does go under.

I think many of us, who own this yellow beast also enjoy surfing it on tinsy days. I can't steer it for the life of me and would also appreciate suggestions on more surf oriented fins for it.

Enjoy your board Hilly, personally I love that board.

hilly
WA, 7473 posts
7 May 2010 11:36PM
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How tall? 6 2 not much pudding to loose.
Steering the board one foot right back lean over, went okay on my backhand with a slalom windsurfing fin from 2002.
Cheaparses at naish supply a 02 windsurfing fin with a 2.5k board In 2010 WTF??????
Yes enjoying the board will try different fins next week

supbelly
WA, 384 posts
8 May 2010 6:13AM
Thumbs Up

hilly said...

Jeez I love this forum

Ask question get good advice Thanks guys

Bigger fin and standing forward helped heaps went much better today

Asked for fin Got 2 offers legends

Phill I am hearing you about the weight. Funny think was I was quicker than Belly on the 16 footer today. Dramas with his steering helped me

You will be glad to know the 14 footer surfs a treat not the loosest thing in the world though. Caught a few at Mettams on the way down the coast. Was a worry to see Belly on the DC16 wiping out snapping a leggy and board heading towards rocks All good in the end


Your not wrong Hilly you thrashed me yesterday..should have done it on the 9.4 gotta sort out that rudder and get a stronger attachment rope..What ever you call them (thing that ties leash to board) I thought i was gonna have one mighty dinged up DC16 as it was heading into shore while i was trying to swim with my paddle in one hand..

The 14 looks really nice on a wave I wonder what people where thinking when the drove past watching 2 guys on a 16 and 14 foot boards surfing haha love it..

Belly

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
8 May 2010 9:52AM
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Yes, the stock Glide Fin is not great.

I've been mucking around with the Glide 14 in small surf a bit, and you can quite happily catch unbroken waves (with any fin in), but once you're going, and you want to put in some turns, there's no questions that raked surf fin / dolphin fin, of any description feels better.

Oliver - regarding steering the board in small surf - you have to run back near the tail, and turn it from there, and run forward throw in a paddle stroke if you need to. Going forehand, just get you back foot toes over near the rail, to get weight on the inside rail.

OK, now it's time to go and get some relatively solid waves.

oliver
3952 posts
8 May 2010 11:55AM
Thumbs Up

hilly said...

How tall? 6 2 not much pudding to loose.


You are clinically obese according to medical experts.

ww12.nhlbisupport.com

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
8 May 2010 4:45PM
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(after this, lets get back on topic.... fins.... )
Oliver, BMI is only a guide. If you have a lot of muscle mass, you can pop up as obese. I think half of the AFL footy players pop up on the low end of over weight. The AFL boys are measured by skin folds. Far more accurate.

But yeah, 108kg is no light weight !!

Here's 3 of the best AFL Prime Movers, and we can probably all agree they are not overweight !!
Jonathan Brown 195cm, 102kg, BMI 26.8 (low end of over weight)
Lance Franklin - 196cm, 101kg, BMI 26.3
G Ablett Junior - 182cm, 88kg, BMI 26.6

25+ is overweight
30+ is obese

I tried a few other players, they are mostly 26.
Without checking the calcs / stats, I estimate that the NRL boys are more in 27 - 28 BMI range.

hilly
WA, 7473 posts
8 May 2010 2:53PM
Thumbs Up

oliver said...

hilly said...

How tall? 6 2 not much pudding to loose.


You are clinically obese according to medical experts.

ww12.nhlbisupport.com


Those charts are a load of sh!t I was obese when I was playing professional rugby 105kg and about 5% body fat.

Bit of the pot calling kettle black here Oliver your profile in a wettie is a lot worse than mine

oliver
3952 posts
8 May 2010 2:59PM
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My BMI is currently at 28 - maybe I have light bones?

It's not me saying this - it's medical experts.

hilly
WA, 7473 posts
8 May 2010 3:05PM
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oliver said...

My BMI is currently at 28 - maybe I have light bones?

It's not me saying this - it's medical experts.




Fat is way lighter than muscle but takes up more space

oliver
3952 posts
8 May 2010 3:26PM
Thumbs Up

Have you tried surfing your 14' yet hilly?



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"Downwind fins" started by hilly