G'day AndyR next time the wind is SSE with a South swell and you wana go for a Downwind Paddle give me a call I do a quick run from Bilinga SLSC to Nth Burleigh SLSC it's 11km takes 50 minutes and it's very easy to get out through the surf at Bilinga.
If you're really keen AndyR we can do a Brunswick Heads to Hastings Point 20km it's the best run on the East Coast of Australia that I've ever experienced (Mini Maliko) just the way the coastline is situated for those SSE winds and South swells it's epic you can do the 20km in 100 minutes or less easy.
Will do Mr wizard! Based up in Brisbane but will be trying to get down over the summer for a few runs with a couple of us from bris Vegas .. Will let you know when!
Yes, windsurfed for many years, and kited for more than 10 now, mainly chasing wind and waves.
When the wind is blowing now though it is starting to be a fight between grabbing the 14 footer and a paddle, or the kite and surfboard.
PS: Enjoy reading your posts teatrea, and keep painting.
Regards KJ
Here is an old seabreeze article that has a little more info:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Articles/Stand%20Up%20Paddle/How-to-read-runners-on-your-Stand-Up-Paddle-board_3214256.aspx
There are some good tips going around in this thread and it is good to see so many sharing what they have learnt over the years.
One thing that will really shorten your learning curve (and, yes, it is long) is paddling with other more experienced paddlers. There are groups of downwind paddlers all over Australia now and if you try and hook up with them you will learn quickly.
Another thing - a good leg rope is the bare minimum piece of safety gear that everyone should use out there.
Tomorrow is looking fine for a S-N run on the Gold Coast and Northern NSW. If you want to paddle with me let me know.
I have found the right board makes a massive difference. If DW is going to be your main thing its worth considering specislist DW boards that make it much easier. Time on the water is another biggy, and pick your days when learning. look for a yaroomba run in Straight North or even nnw so you dont have to track the whole time.
The learning part is a blast!! just take it easy dont paddle your freckle off. its best not to make it a race when ur learning, slow down and cruise. yewww!
One thing that will really shorten your learning curve (and, yes, it is long) is paddling with other more experienced paddlers. There are groups of downwind paddlers all over Australia now and if you try and hook up with them you will learn quickly.
the sure thing is you need to paddle with better paddlers. If you are on your own and start to get runners you might think "OMG it's unreal there is no way I could go faster" . And then you see the better guys passing you and you think you have glue under your board!! This is one of the rare sport you can be doing it with the very best next to you, so you can watch and learn from them. And don't think it's only about fitness and strength. Skill makes a huge difference so you should always wonder " what do they do that I don't ? "
Sounds like there is a lot of people keen for DWing
I find the hardest part is organizing times and transport with others to go DWing
We need to share the fun like DJ, and announce if we are going for a run on a particular day
More the merrier if conditions are good
Well I don't think there is much more to be said after that!
Words from the wise and experienced.
Thanks DW.
ET.
That was such a good read for a Friday morning.. Put me in a good state of mind!
Lesson #14 is key to becoming a good waterman I think ( bedding a Scandinavian blonde) hahahaha classic!!!
That's a great point about getting out with more experience paddlers - something I've yet to do... I figured I needed to at least gets some basic competency first so then at least I had an excuse for slowing everyone else down.
I snuck out late yesterday for a quick NNE downwinder, 15 knots gusting probably 20. I'm travelling about 500 to 750m off the beach for most of it - a bit closer than I normally would, and you can see the swell is approx NE. I had my iphone in my pocket running Motion-x. It was showing I was averaging around 13 km/h.
This is the first time I've put the GoPro on the big board (14' 2013 glide) - so I was pretty curious (and frankly.... dismayed) to see how much I (wasn't) moving my feet. I thought I'd share the video in the hope of some constructive criticism for specific parts of the video. Kenny, I reckon we're pretty much at the same skill level from what you've said... I'm 47 and 100Kg. So figured some of the critique might contribute to this thread rather than start a separate one.
This is also my first go at posting a video - so don't expect a lot - it has no music, no fancy scene cuts - nothing to speak of really... so don't blame me if you can't bring yourself to watch it all. For those who do watch it, any specific advice on downwinding (not video production) would be great.
It was showing I was averaging around 13 km/h.
This is the first time I've put the GoPro on the big board (14' 2013 glide) - so I was pretty curious (and frankly.... dismayed) to see how much I (wasn't) moving my feet.
If you average 13 km/h you can't do everything wrong.
I think your feet are moving far enough. Some boards need to be paddled moving back and forth but some don't, so that's not an issue here IMO
Work on your balance is one of the main things i see, all that twiching around you are doing slows you down. Try and keep your board level while paddling yes its hard but your board is designed to be paddling flat and it will make you faster. Also try and bring your feet in a little as they are draging in the water which will also slow you down.
That wind on the beach looked 20knots plus by the way as 20 knots is when sand starts hitting you in the Ankles!!
Jacko
Work on your balance is one of the main things i see, all that twiching around you are doing slows you down. Try and keep your board level while paddling yes its hard but your board is designed to be paddling flat and it will make you faster. Also try and bring your feet in a little as they are draging in the water which will also slow you down.
That wind on the beach looked 20knots plus by the way as 20 knots is when sand starts hitting you in the Ankles!!
Jacko
Thanks Jacko, Funnily it seemed winder on the beach than in the water, my board even did a roll down the beach, but I cut that bit out. I looked up the seabreeze wind chart afterwards to get the speed - so always a fair bit of error. Al's comment about the speed maybe indicates the wind was a bit stronger as well, as I know I can definitely go faster.
I've tried getting my feet in closer, but naturally have a a wide stance, which is why I think the new wider glide will be a better fit for me. Balance is definitely my issue, particularly in the cross chop where I find it hard to go with the flow. Twitching is a good term - pretty painful to watch unfortunately. I'm naturally pretty inflexible too which doesn't help.
You kept looking back and to the left. Your focus should be on the nose area of your board and the general area near the front third of your board. You need to look for the trough in front and aim to keep your board paddling downhill.
Also, as you are paddling solo I would highly recommend changing your colours. Your Blue rashie against a blue ocean will not help you get spotted if you need any help. You have a white board, blue rashie and light brown boardies. Try chose colours that contrast with the water and white caps.
Certainly some great tips here. Over the last few days in Sydney a few paddlers who are relatively new to the sport have decided to paddle off shore. I know a couple have spent quite a bit of time on their knees and had difficulty paddling in.
In Sydney we're lucky to have some inland waterways that are great locations to develop your down winding skills in relative safety. It's amazing how much more confident you can be in the ocean when you have paddled some of these waterways first.
Botany Bay, the Spit and Pittwater and even Narrabeen Lake are all great locations to develop your DW skills safely before hitting the open ocean. Your local shop should be able to help also. A couple of shops I have dealt with that are always prepared to offer DW advice and even have a paddle with you are ROAR on the Goldie, RPS in Melbourne, ESS on the Central Coast and WINDSURF N SNOW in Sydney.
Always worth carrying a phone and even a flare. Paddling in a fluro top makes plenty of sense as well.
You kept looking back and to the left. Your focus should be on the nose area of your board and the general area near the front third of your board. You need to look for the trough in front and aim to keep your board paddling downhill.
Also, as you are paddling solo I would highly recommend changing your colours. Your Blue rashie against a blue ocean will not help you get spotted if you need any help. You have a white board, blue rashie and light brown boardies. Try chose colours that contrast with the water and white caps.
I see these videos where there always seems to be a trough somewhere in the vicinity, so as it dies out in front a quick turn to the left or right will pick it up again with a couple of paddles, I'm finding the that I get on a runner, but rarely seems to be able spot a good link up. I guess that might be because I'm looking behind me, not in front . I didn't even realise I was doing that.
Next time I will be resplendently bedecked in my ceremonial fluoro boardies and taxi orange themed (yet incredibly stylish) paddling top.
You're getting way more runners than me Foamballer, well done, keep it up!
This thread has turned out to be a real wealth of information and encouragement, thanks to all who have contributed!
Cheers,
Ken.
www.ocpaddler.com/game
Nice little game from an OC website, but the theory is the same. I just got a distance of 317 on my third go by applying the "paddle downhill only" theory.
You look the same as I do on the 23"......with the board being a little too tipsy for you (would be at 100kg) and as Jacko indicated it will affect your board speed. I think you are doing great, though - no falls and continued paddling.
But the instability is affecting your stroke, because you are using the paddle to semi-brace through the stroke. Your paddle is too far off the side of the board (2-3 inches away from rail), if you can get your paddle vertical and under the board you will find much better acceleration. Its all about timing the paddle stroke and then getting your weight off your feet and onto the paddle - the more vertical the paddle the more this works. And vertical means paddle right under the board.
I reckon you will be much more comfortable on the 29" wide Glide as you will be able to paddle more efficiently. But 13km/h is a very, very good average speed....
You look the same as I do on the 23"......with the board being a little too tipsy for you (would be at 100kg) and as Jacko indicated it will affect your board speed. I think you are doing great, though - no falls and continued paddling.
But the instability is affecting your stroke, because you are using the paddle to semi-brace through the stroke. Your paddle is too far off the side of the board (2-3 inches away from rail), if you can get your paddle vertical and under the board you will find much better acceleration. Its all about timing the paddle stroke and then getting your weight off your feet and onto the paddle - the more vertical the paddle the more this works. And vertical means paddle right under the board.
I reckon you will be much more comfortable on the 29" wide Glide as you will be able to paddle more efficiently. But 13km/h is a very, very good average speed....
Don't worry I had a few falls at least in the first part - the give away is standing there dripping wet as if nothing happened! I think you are spot on about the stroke - in clean water I reckon I'm a pretty good paddler, but this board does require a lot of concentration when it's choppy. I've got the new one on order (when will they ever come !!@#). I know people reckon the 2013 glide is a great board, but I'm finding it a bit unforgiving. I had a ride of a DC14 in some small river waves, and I felt that was a very comfortable board - I think it was 30". However, I did have a great session on the glide on glassy 5' rollers one day which really opened my eyes to the possibilities of the board.
Thanks for the comforting message on the speed... that of course doesn't include the beach start, etc. It's probably obvious from the the video, but I was missing heaps of runners that I should have got and I'm sure other people would've been miles ahead of me. I just got back from the reverse run from a rather unpleasant SE wind, apparently 15 knots gusting 25 with building swell. Average speed was just 7km/h - I'll see if I can find anything from the GoPro that is even worth posting, but I doubt it - just too chaotic. Couldn't apply any of the great info suggested in this thread unfortunately.
You kept looking back and to the left. Your focus should be on the nose area of your board and the general area near the front third of your board. You need to look for the trough in front and aim to keep your board paddling downhill.
I see these videos where there always seems to be a trough somewhere in the vicinity, so as it dies out in front a quick turn to the left or right will pick it up again with a couple of paddles, I'm finding the that I get on a runner, but rarely seems to be able spot a good link up. I guess that might be because I'm looking behind me, not in front . I didn't even realise I was doing that.
Ok, now you are onto something. Once you get more experience you will be continually chasing those troughs. They will usually move around to the left/right and you will be trying to follow them wherever they go. On the N-S runs on the East coast the troughs tend to move around a whole lot more than on the S-N runs. I tend to like these runs a lot more as they are more challenging and interesting. I really like using a rudder system for this as it is really efficient to change directions without having to rely on paddle strokes and pushing down a rail. Many of the modern board designs work on a principle were the board will turn the opposite way to whatever rail you push down. This is really counter-intuitive imo and I personally don't like this concept.
The problem with a wide stance is that you will also have a tendency to push down on a rail a lot more than you should. Your wide stance is not helping you keep the board level. A good rule of thumb is to try keep the outside of your feet the same width as your waist. A little bend of the knees might also help you with your balance.
You are going a lot better than you think so you are on the right track.
Practice, practice, practice...
Foamballer, I would highly recommend that you try hook up with Alain as he lives near you and is always frothing for a downwinder. He goes by "Al Hunter" and was probably on the water with you yesterday. He went from Broken Head south to Lennox, or somewhere down there. He got a max GPS speed of 27km/hr so must have got some epic runs.
Let's bring some controversy here
I agree that a leveled board allows most of us to paddle stronger and faster. But I don't agree that a level board will go faster because it has been made to be leveled. Some boards do some don't.
If you have the right board, enough skills to paddle on the rail and keep this momentum (which means you still have to feel stable in that position) and have a strong and regular paddle stroke you won't be slower, you'll be faster.
Let's bring some controversy here
I agree that a leveled board allows most of us to paddle stronger and faster. But I don't agree that a level board will go faster because it has been made to be leveled. Some boards do some don't.
If you have the right board, enough skills to paddle on the rail and keep this momentum (which means you still have to feel stable in that position) and have a strong and regular paddle stroke you won't be slower, you'll be faster.
It obviously works for you with the speeds you have managed to get out of those new DC/NSP designs lately. I am only a cruiser so am much more comfortable on a level board and certainly don't get those same speeds. This could be interesting topic to discuss further as there may be more ideas on this out there...
Wow their BIG boards man!
I guess that makes it easier, does it?
I see they have a rudder system, is it easy to operate?
Thanks,
Ken.
Thanks DW, On your F18, if you are out in 15 knots or less are you still able to catch plenty of runners?
If so, If you had either of the others in the same conditions, would they not get many or any runners?
What happens if you are turning with the rudder and suddenly have to step back to the tail, with out time to straighten the rudder? Is it self centering when released?
Cheers,
Ken.
If comparing the F-16 and Bullet 17, which would you recommend for me and why? From their web site I read that the bullet is faster and maybe more maneuverable but less stable and forgiving than the F-16. Do they not make an F-18 any more or is it a custom?
Cheers,
Ken.
I could be interested in a good second handy if any one has one?
G’day KennyK hopefully I can answer your questions. BIG Downwind SUP’s are more stable, thats a yes and no answer as it’s going to depend on the ocean conditions.
The Rudder System is very easy to operate and when you take your foot of the rudder system it self centre’s itself so the board will go straight check out my youtube video I’m hardly use the rudder system as I’m to busy surfing the Bullet. At the 58 second mark you’ll see me touch the rudder system to make a quick left turn.
Always worth carrying a phone and even a flare. Paddling in a fluro top makes plenty of sense as well.
Fluoro tights are also worth considering.