Select to expand quoteKennyK said..
Thanks again Downwinder, you're a legend!
You have been real helpful.
Cheers,
Ken.
It's also best to wear bright clothes when paddling in the ocean you my look Gay but at least you'll stand out like "Dogs Balls" you'll be spotted 3 kilometres away.
When I find some money I'm going to respray my f18 Orange, Yellow and White camouflage and put a Orange EVA pad on it.
Here is an example of what colours I normally use. Orange and Red are good colours to use at sea. The Yellow that Downwinder is using in that last pic is also a good colour. White and Black are the worst choices.
The hull of my board actually has a big black "V" on the orange background, which doubles up as a V sheet if things really get bad.
I am operating the rudder system with my left foot in this pic. This board has a custom designed piercing nose which loves being buried in the back of a trough. My nose buries but does not pearl which is the style of downwinding I like doing most. With this board I like to stay on the rudder system as much as I can and very rarely have to move back. There are not a lot of people that go for this approach anymore but it's what I like doing most. If I find any decent footage of it I will post it.
If you want to know what safety gear is in the backpack then there is a separate post running on that.
Select to expand quotePTWoody said..Fluoro tights are also worth considering.
This was the best trick I could pull of in the miserable south-easter yesterday.
Just did the funnest downwinder I have ever done so far!
Went from Kawana to Maroochydore in 15-20 knot SE wind with a SE swell.
It really makes a positive difference having the wind and swell going the same direction.
The hardest part was getting around Point Cartright paddling across the wind and swell. Both kept pushing the nose of the board toward the headland. I had to actually stop and turn the board toward the east and start paddling again a few times, because despite only paddling on the left side the board was still gradually turning right. I guess this is where steering would be a real help?
I took as much of the advice as I could remember from this thread and applied it, and actually caught quite a few runners. Even 4 or 5 immediately after one another at one time.
The biggest problem I had was the fact that when I shift weight onto a rail, the board turns the opposite direction. I instinctively do this to turn the same direction as the rail I weight, like when surfing. However the biggest problem is when I overbalance to one side and as a result weight the rail the board turns the opposite way making it even harder to regain my balance and alot of times makes me lose all momentum, or fall off. The faster I'm going the worse it is. Sometimes when this happens it may be only minor at first and I think I can maintain control but then a swell comes up behind and pushes which increases the speed as well as lifts the tail which in turn bogs the nose. So I end up with the nose in the back of a wave on its rail trying to turn 45 degrees off course while the tail is trying overtake. It is hard to keep it under control sometimes. I think it comes down alot to the design of the board.
I really felt that a bigger board like a SIC Bullet 17 or an F16 would have been an advantage out there today, and would be keen to try one some day.
But having said that overall I had fun and was encouraged by the improvement. Thanks to all the contributors to this thread.
Cheers,
Ken.
Select to expand quoteKennyK said..
It really makes a positive difference having the wind and swell going the same direction.
The hardest part was getting around Point Cartright paddling across the wind and swell. Both kept pushing the nose of the board toward the headland. I had to actually stop and turn the board toward the east and start paddling again a few times, because despite only paddling on the left side the board was still gradually turning right. I guess this is where steering would be a real help?
Hi Kenny,
greetings from up here in Alaska Great thread you got going here, and cool to read all of the helpful replies you have received!
As to your question above,a big YES is the answer. Although primarily intended for chasing bumps while going downwind, a rudder board can be a great asset while paddling crosswind & upwind too. I have a custom SIC 15' "flat-water" board that I got used, and use it primarily for long paddles. Having the steering is a real game changer, and allows you to keep from burning out from paddling too long on one side while dealing with a strong crosswind. Even in light/no wind situations, it only takes a bit of rudder to help keep you tracking straight, which can add greatly to your stroke count before having to swap sides (like going from 8-10, to 25). This obviously helps you keep you speed up, with less swapping from side to side.
I just got a new SIC F16, and took it out on Wednesday for the first run. The NW wind wasn't very strong, (maybe around 10-12 kts.) but the current was running strongly against it in a narrow section of the channel, and I had some good whitecaps and 1'-2' waves for about a one mile stretch. I caught a few good runners, and it was fun to be able to follow/stay after them by using the steering. The board was rock-steady, and surprised me with how good it went in these light wind/small wave conditions. Can't wait to get it out in some stronger winds for sure!
If you are looking at maybe getting a longer board, it is certainly worth taking a look at.
Hey RainWaves, I reckon a rudder might help steering around the odd killer whale, swimming polar bear and icebergs.
And the banana-benders (Queenslanders) think it's cold down in Victoria!
Didn't see anyone mention this, but I think it's critical to catching tricky swells--Reach waaay out when you plant your paddle, give a very short pull, get it back out well before your feet and do it again. Best to feather the blade as you pull it and push upwards with your lower hand. You get about 70 percent of the power in the first ten inches of stroke. So if you go tap-tap-tap instead of one long stroke it's 70-70-70 (=210) instead of 100.
Sounds weird, feels weird when you do it, but it's the biggest trick for getting into bumps. If you are applying power to the paddle when it's past your feet you'll never catch a swell. Not only are you actually braking the board, but you're lifting water and sinking the inside rail and tail. Watch Jeremy's stroke--way out in front, and very short. Same for Kalama. If you can find some video of Randy Royce you'll see an extreme version of the stroke, and Randy gets every swell he goes for.
Rudders are great for extending your ride--finding the low spot to slip over the bump in front of you, and carving along the face of bigger swells. There's more power down low in a swell, if you can drive the board to the bottom and run along the trough you get some nice acceleration and a longer ride. Speed is almost always your friend in downwinding, and rudders get you into the fast stuff. Of course when you drop into the bottom of something big and nasty at Maliko and your 17.5 Bullet is going so fast it's humming, you might wish for some brakes as well as a rudder. You could ask JC about that. I think he's been there, done that, and got the T-shirt.
Select to expand quoteKennyK said..
Just did the funnest downwinder I have ever done so far!
Went from Kawana to Maroochydore in 15-20 knot SE wind with a SE swell.
It really makes a positive difference having the wind and swell going the same direction.
The hardest part was getting around Point Cartright paddling across the wind and swell. Both kept pushing the nose of the board toward the headland. I had to actually stop and turn the board toward the east and start paddling again a few times, because despite only paddling on the left side the board was still gradually turning right. I guess this is where steering would be a real help?
I took as much of the advice as I could remember from this thread and applied it, and actually caught quite a few runners. Even 4 or 5 immediately after one another at one time.
The biggest problem I had was the fact that when I shift weight onto a rail, the board turns the opposite direction. I instinctively do this to turn the same direction as the rail I weight, like when surfing. However the biggest problem is when I overbalance to one side and as a result weight the rail the board turns the opposite way making it even harder to regain my balance and alot of times makes me lose all momentum, or fall off. The faster I'm going the worse it is. Sometimes when this happens it may be only minor at first and I think I can maintain control but then a swell comes up behind and pushes which increases the speed as well as lifts the tail which in turn bogs the nose. So I end up with the nose in the back of a wave on its rail trying to turn 45 degrees off course while the tail is trying overtake. It is hard to keep it under control sometimes. I think it comes down alot to the design of the board.
I really felt that a bigger board like a SIC Bullet 17 or an F16 would have been an advantage out there today, and would be keen to try one some day.
But having said that overall I had fun and was encouraged by the improvement. Thanks to all the contributors to this thread.
Cheers,
Ken.
opposite turn is just something you'll have to get used too. when your on the tail it's back to normal.
you will work out how to deal with the lift and speed.try holding the board back a bit sometimes- if you know a bump is going to take you.
a fair amount of what you mentioned comes down to movement back and forth-trim.
mind you that board doesn't help,however you don't 'need' to get a big bullet or f16 for our conditions- yes i know phil will disagree. just something that's dw's properly . stay away from a full on displacement nose
cheers
Select to expand quotelaceys lane said..
But having however you don't 'need' to get a big bullet or f16 for our conditions- yes i know phil will disagree. just something that's dw's properly . stay away from a full on displacement nose
G’day Lacey it’s what ever make you happy if you love 14fter or 12'6'' i'm stoked for you. I’ve never paddled a 14ft SUP and am not likely too either. I learn’t on the Unlimited boards both Prone and SUP, I just love the length. One thing I wouldn’t do is paddle a 12’6’‘ Downwind you’re just punishing yourself (I did that once in Fiji just to support Namotu Island and the World StandUp Series, never again 12’6’’ SUP’s are punishing) it be like lining up for the Tour De France on a BMX bike WTF leave 12’6’‘ for the BOP and make shore you’re young and under 80kg to be competitive on those boards.
To answer your displacement nose question. The f18 has a displacement nose displacement type boards create less drag e.g. (related to water line) equals higher the hull speed you get a lot less tired when paddling thats why f18‘s love winds 15 knots or less. The glide is longer so when there is tinny bumps the f18 has advantage.
Yep you only need the Bullet or f16 if the winds are nuking 25+ knots in Australia thats when those boards come into there own both the Bullet and f16 are s##t boards that go very slow in the flat or winds under 20 knots.
Select to expand quoteDownwinder said..laceys lane said..
But having however you don't 'need' to get a big bullet or f16 for our conditions- yes i know phil will disagree. just something that's dw's properly . stay away from a full on displacement nose
G???day Lacey it???s what ever make you happy if you love 14fter or 12'6'' i'm stoked for you. I???ve never paddled a 14ft SUP and am not likely too either. I learn???t on the Unlimited boards both Prone and SUP, I just love the length. One thing I wouldn???t do is paddle a 12???6?????? Downwind you???re just punishing yourself (I did that once in Fiji just to support Namotu Island and the World StandUp Series, never again 12???6?????? SUP???s are punishing) it be like lining up for the Tour De France on a BMX bike WTF leave 12???6?????? for the BOP and make shore you???re young and under 80kg to be competitive on those boards.
To answer your displacement nose question. The f18 has a displacement nose displacement type boards create less drag e.g. (related to water line) equals higher the hull speed you get a lot less tired when paddling thats why f18???s love winds 15 knots or less. The glide is longer so when there is tinny bumps the f18 has advantage.
Yep you only need the Bullet or f16 if the winds are nuking 25+ knots in Australia thats when those boards come into there own both the Bullet and f16 are s##t boards that go very slow in the flat or winds under 20 knots.
G'day again DW,
You said, "I just love the length". Risky, bold statement. Don't be surprised if you attract a few interesting comments. LOL. 
You also said," Yep you only need the Bullet or f16 if the winds are nuking 25+ knots in Australia thats when those boards come into there own both the Bullet and f16 are s##t boards that go very slow in the flat or winds under 20 knots".
I expect most of my DW'ing to be in 15 to 25 knots, I also want to catch runners in the river mouth when the surf is too small, catching them well before they start to break, but continuing to surf them when breaking. Plus a little flat water paddling for fitness and leisure. I prefer one board to do all the above. Having said that I'm guessing you would not recommend an F16 or Bullet 17, and because of the surfing and flat water probably not the F18? What do you think?
Cheers,
Ken.
Select to expand quotelaceys lane said..
stay away from a full on displacement nose
Why? I absolutely love the displacement nose on my custom DC14 (with rudder). This board works with anything from 5-10kts up to as strong as it gets on the East Coast. I have just had 3 days in a row in variable conditions and had a ball. Yesterday the wind was as low as 10kts SE with SE-E swell and did a Snapper to Burleigh run. Most people would not even bother to go out in something like that.
Have a good look at that video on page 2 where Mark Raaphorst gives an excellent run down on dispacement and planer hull designs.
Select to expand quotemikeman said..laceys lane said..
stay away from a full on displacement nose
Why? I absolutely love the displacement nose on my custom DC14 (with rudder). This board works with anything from 5-10kts up to as strong as it gets on the East Coast. I have just had 3 days in a row in variable conditions and had a ball. Yesterday the wind was as low as 10kts SE with SE-E swell and did a Snapper to Burleigh run. Most people would not even bother to go out in something like that.
Have a good look at that video on page 2 where Mark Raaphorst gives an excellent run down on displacement and planer hull designs.
each to their own mike.
i've seen the vid before.
Select to expand quoteKennyK said..Downwinder said..laceys lane said..
But having however you don't 'need' to get a big bullet or f16 for our conditions- yes i know phil will disagree. just something that's dw's properly . stay away from a full on displacement nose
G???day Lacey it???s what ever make you happy if you love 14fter or 12'6'' i'm stoked for you. I???ve never paddled a 14ft SUP and am not likely too either. I learn???t on the Unlimited boards both Prone and SUP, I just love the length. One thing I wouldn???t do is paddle a 12???6?????? Downwind you???re just punishing yourself (I did that once in Fiji just to support Namotu Island and the World StandUp Series, never again 12???6?????? SUP???s are punishing) it be like lining up for the Tour De France on a BMX bike WTF leave 12???6?????? for the BOP and make shore you???re young and under 80kg to be competitive on those boards.
To answer your displacement nose question. The f18 has a displacement nose displacement type boards create less drag e.g. (related to water line) equals higher the hull speed you get a lot less tired when paddling thats why f18???s love winds 15 knots or less. The glide is longer so when there is tinny bumps the f18 has advantage.
Yep you only need the Bullet or f16 if the winds are nuking 25+ knots in Australia thats when those boards come into there own both the Bullet and f16 are s##t boards that go very slow in the flat or winds under 20 knots.
G'day again DW,
You said, "I just love the length". Risky, bold statement. Don't be surprised if you attract a few interesting comments. LOL.
You also said," Yep you only need the Bullet or f16 if the winds are nuking 25+ knots in Australia thats when those boards come into there own both the Bullet and f16 are s##t boards that go very slow in the flat or winds under 20 knots".
I expect most of my DW'ing to be in 15 to 25 knots, I also want to catch runners in the river mouth when the surf is too small, catching them well before they start to break, but continuing to surf them when breaking. Plus a little flat water paddling for fitness and leisure. I prefer one board to do all the above. Having said that I'm guessing you would not recommend an F16 or Bullet 17, and because of the surfing and flat water probably not the F18? What do you think?
Cheers,
Ken.
Sounds like you want a 14. Seen Steve Walker going really fast on the new Fanatic 14 downwind and the old Naish 14's were really good DW but had too much rocker to be much fun in flat water, not sure how the new ones are. That Gerry Lopez 14 that you said you had a go on could be the answer. I had a quick go on Lacey's and it was real stable downwind and picked up bumps easy and seemed to run nicely. It was heavy (comparatively) but that can be good in a DW board.
I've had a SIC Bullet for nearly 2 years now and I love it but it is hard work until the wind gets up to about 18 knots then it's amazing. It's pretty hopeless in flat water though it's fun to draft behind other paddlers and you can use the rudder to stay right on them!
Kenny - great job being so open and all the contributors for their generous advice. This thread has made a huge difference to my downwinding so thanks to everyone for the improvements I have been able to make over the last few weeks
Select to expand quoteDanOinkey said..
Kenny - great job being so open and all the contributors for their generous advice. This thread has made a huge difference to my downwinding so thanks to everyone for the improvements I have been able to make over the last few weeks
Yeah, it's been a real help to me too! I have just done my forth DW'er this arvo, and the improvement is very noticeable.
Just need to get me a good board now and I think I can improve out of sight.
