Thought I would throw up another two bobs worth on the paddle length debate.
Had my first surf with the shorty yesterday and found it interesting to say the least. I stand close enough to six foot and my go to paddle up until now has been my Dean Snow custom which is around eight inches overhead. Can't say enough good things about this paddle, have had it for four years and in that time it has been to Fiji two Aussies and generally been thrashed mercilessly. Its still light as and has not failed me once, in short bomb proof. But.......over the last six to eight months my shoulders have been giving me stick and I have had two bouts of tendonitis in the elbow. I reckon it's a combination of length and lack of flex that are the problem.
The new paddle is a relatively inexpensive full carbon model from China sourced through Trigger Brothers and is cut to just on two inches overhead. It also has a heap more flex in the shaft. My reasoning for taking this option is cos I want proof of concept before I either shell out big bucks for a name brand or take the hacksaw to the Snow custom.
Below are some pics of both old and new.
Now on to the pros and cons
Yesterdays surf was pretty bloody fun at my usual left hand rip bowl haunt, although the wind did get into it after a couple of hours
cons
Requires a complete rethink on knee flexion, I need to get down into my stroke more.
Thought initialy the paddle blade was not penetrating enough to be effective ie not enough grunt.See above
The extra flex and lack of length requires a rethink during certain moves and certainly through the recovery phase. With more flex you cant use the paddle so much as a crutch!!
Similarly when applying brace and support strokes the flex and length really messes with your head.
pros
Absolutely zero pain after a two and a half hour session!
Hand to hand transition easier by far.
Enjoyed the whip out of turns that the extra flex gave.
Above all had the overriding impression that with time I would be able to shake out the afore mentioned bugs and the lack of joint pain alone validates the concept.
Cheers and stay tuned for vid
Sparx
On to the vid
Havent polished this one to much and it runs in chronological order. You can see the struggle in the first half of the session. That second wave just makes me sick to look at...dunno what happened, wrong blade angle on entry over flexed and it just flicked me off...spewin!!
Third wave illustrates what I was talking about in terms of flex. After pulling round a fairly standard fore hand off the top/cutty combo I hit the white water and went for the standard paddle brace on the way down. Paddle flexed like cooked spaghetti and welcome to face plant city.
Have left in a bit of the bracing and support stroke stuff to illustrate that particular challenge.
All in all, fun as and I reckon I nearly had the paddle sorted by the end of the session...could not buy a bloody cover up though, must have had my clown boots on!!
Cheers
Sparx
i have just taken another inch of my paddle after not wanting to go short again. i noticed it straight away as soon as i hopped on the board
after a session in slightly rough water next day my lower back and hips were sore again like they used to when i had a shorter surf paddle.
be interesting see how you fair sparx - the trade off for shoulder relieve against the the hunched over paddling position of a short paddle
Don't you hate the summer crowds....
But, back on the question of paddle length - on a surf trip to southern Mexico in Nov/early Dec I snapped my regular surf paddle a couple of days into the trip, so went to my back-up which, like Sparx, is a Dean Snow custom which I have had since I started SUP'ing (2 1/2 years). It is a great paddle, but is at least 4 inches longer than the other paddle - as that was what was gospel back in those days.
I noticed the extra length straight away and, until I re-adjusted to the longer paddle, found myself getting a bit tangled up both turning on the wave and swapping sides while riding waves. But the main issue was that the tendon at the top of my collar bone, which is swollen from more than 45 years of prone surfing, immediately started playing up again. This was because my top hand was too high above my shoulder at the start of the paddle stroke.
So, for me, the shorter paddle is much better for turning and general manoeuvrability and keeps my shoulders in much better condition. I agree that us old fellas have to watch our backs, but it is just a matter of ensuring that the bend is in the knees and not the lower back.
I thought I would put my two bobs worth,to long sore rotator, shoulders,to short sore lower back,
What I did was cut the paddle down to head high,now the problem was solved,but you must keep your core tight when paddling so your back want pop out,great for all size surf. Good luck boys.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the input guys.
Rossco, there were heaps of the buggas out there, just cant see them cos of creative editing
Agree with everything that has been said, its a balancing act as to what you are potentialy going to root the most...shoulders or lower back.
In all honesty in the two and a half hours that I have had the shorter paddle in the water, my primary drama was loss of stability through bracing and support strokes and I reckon this is just something that will get better with time on task.
Cheers
Sparx
Hi Sparx,
Hope you don't get this the wrong way.
I was checking the vid (pretty cool btw) and couldn't stop noticing one thing: you're driving the board off the tail and not using the rail as you could. As a result, you can check your bottom turn is a bit skatey and is not providing you the same amount of drive you could be getting.
My suggestion: try to widen your stance a little bit and load the front foot a bit more on the bottom turn. You'll feel the diference in speed and you'll have a lot more time to shift the paddle from side to site in order to perform your turns.
Have fun!
PS: This video made want to get one of those soloshot thingies...
Thanx Johnny
All constructive criticism gratefully accepted.
The white board in the vid is eight foot long and I admit I surf it a lot like my standard short board...that is, I dont move my feet much. I have a seven ten being glassed at the moment and I am going to have to lift my game to keep that under control.
Dunno wether you think I was using a solo shot or reckon I could benefit by using one, but that footage was taken with a stationary camera. Just gotta line yourself down the angle of the bank or reef and you catch most of the action. But yeah I'd love to get my hands on one of those babies!!!
Cheers
Sparx
great lil waves, absolutely fun. Wish my local was like that, I recently shortened my paddle to just above head height, and felt the difference immediately too. Better for surfing, although still need to test it in some decent conditions.
I am loath to shorten my QB Kahana further as i already find it stiff for surfing compared to my longer fanatic all carbon which i use on my 12' 6" for touring which has much more flex to begin with.
For myself in future i will make sure my surf paddle has plenty flex to begin with before the shortening process.
Hey Sparx, here's my suggestion for those couple of niggling injuries you've come across and I don't think you'll like it so much, get yourself something resembling a flatwater board and work on some paddling technique and endurance,it just might help to iron out those issues rather than relying on a change of paddle shaft length as floating around on a tippy surf sup only won't be doing you any favors while paddling around the lineup during those extended multi hour surf sessions you guys enjoy down there
,
I'm hanging for the first Bass sup surf day for this year after the awesome event at 13th so maybe catch up then for a chat.
Hey Sparx,
I went through the same process about 12 months ago. Was using a Slim Jim aprox 8" overhead. As my boards got smaller the shoulders both started playing up. Got myself a QB 90 & cut it 2" overhead. Result, instant relief of shoulder injuries & better control in the lineup. Still using the longer paddle on my 14' & 11'4" & the shorter for my short boards.
Some interesting stuff getting thrown into the mix!
On the width issue, my last four boards have all been 4D customs. Length wise we have come down from 8.8 to 8.6 to 8.2 and now 8.0. Width wise they have come down from twenty nine and three quarters to twent nine, which in the scheme of things isnt that extreme. They have all been refinements on the original, plenty of beef through the middle so paddle pretty well and reflect the nature of the waves I primarily surf eg sucky little ledges. My theory has allways been if the board is a little unstable in flat water, its gonna be a lot easier to get up on a rail in the surf. Makes paddle technique all the more critical in terms of staying upright and thats where I am coming unstuck at the moment, but hey, Ive only had the new paddle in the water for two and a half hours. As I have mentioned, I have a new shooter being glassed at the mo. Its 7.10 by 28.6 and I reckon there could be some comedy gold coming from that little lot. If it proves to be an aborted mission I will definitely start going back up in width and volume.
Yep, I probably need some coaching in terms of stroke technique. Pretty much self taught, although I did quite a bit of competitive canoe paddleing as a teenager (several lifetimes ago). I've got bad habits I dont even know about and for sure belting out some kays on a flat water board would help. I miss the old cruisers and regret selling the last one I owned. One toy too many I'm afraid. It's also pretty hard to coax the Misses into having a paddle on the river on an eight foot performance board unless you have ready access to a hair dryer and a fully stocked spackle repair kit.
Really interesting to hear about where every body else is at on the journey and the different approaches to some common problems.
Thanks again for the feedback all, keep em coming.
Cheers
Sparx
Hey Sparks & Rosco....Good to hear the paddles I made you guys have survived the punishment no doubt been put through.
Sparks paddle shaft is a very stiff 31mm diam, weighing 535gm.....this might explain shoulder/tendon problems.
Rosco's is 28mm, weighing 435g & has a smaller blade.
Shaft size I have been using for 18 months is 24mm, it allows a nice bend taking a bit of stress off the body, & has a nice weight around 400gm
After reading this post I tried my girlfriends paddle that is 4" shorter than mine, adjusting to this length was no problem so I will make up a shortie to evaluate.
You guys are welcome to borrow it for same purpose.
Good stuff Dean
Will be down your way for a bit of a family beach day tomorrow and hope to sneak in a surf of some discription. Would love to try one of your new paddles and if you are still making them for the public I reckon I might be in the market.
Cheers
Sparx
Might take you up on the offer Dean, but I'm staying east of Melbourne and avoiding the surfcoast over the hols - too many people. So may drop by once the crowds thin out a bit.
For what it,s worth here's my experience on the subject .
When I first started SUP couple of years ago , I left the paddle at about 6 to 8 inches above head . This was on advice from here .
It felt right ... While paddling on flat water .
Couple of years down the track , and I have noticed that while paddleing out to the line up the top hand is on the handle .
But when paddling for a wave I find more comfort in dropping the top hand down about 6 inches .
I recon it's because while I,m paddling in to a wave I lean forward a bit and bend the knees a bit more , so shorter paddle needed !!!!
Hope this helps .
So I,m happy leaving the paddle long and just choking it when taking off .
So I read through this topic last night and got a little enthusiastic so went out the the shed and lopped a few inches off the paddle, down from about 6in over head to 2in. Surfed it this morning and all I can say is it felt great.
Now I dunno what happened but nearly everything seemed a bit easier once I got used to the shorter length. Not saying this will happen to you but I am sold... now wondering how short is too short, where is the point that you have gone too far?
Had a bit of a family beach day down the coast today and ran into Dean Snow, LSD on this forum. Had a crack at what I believe was his girlfriends paddle.
Faaark, where to start! First up the shaft on this thing seemed to be about the same thickness as my thumb, and no, I dont have giant thumbs. Made it super easy to grip cos your thumb was kinda locking down on your fingers on the reverse side of shaft. The blade was around the same size as my old one and it had a fairly nifty home grown T grip. Loved the marbles used to seal each end.
It took me about five minutes to adjust from my Chinese cheapy and I gotta say this thing just felt right. Not quite as much flex in the shaft and no spine and concave in the face of the blade. It just seamed to generate power instantly where as my newie feels soft and mushy by comparison. This one was around six inches overhead and when I order one I reckon I would still work off between two to four over. I reckon I used the paddle for around half an hour did lots of ins and outs and was generally bloody impressed.
Dean seemed quite comfortable with the length on my newy, caught lots of waves and generally did what he does, which is also pretty impressive. Agreed though about the power lag between the two.
So what have I learned?
Short is good for shoulders and elbows
Flex helps, but not too much flex cos it seems to wash off power when extreme.
Have yet to experience any back pain so reckon between two and four over is about right for me
Have just taken delivery of my new shooter and at seven ten all of the above could be out the window tomorrow!!!
Cheers
Sparx
