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Help me out re snaking

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Created by Legion > 9 months ago, 23 Feb 2010
Legion
WA, 2222 posts
23 Feb 2010 11:00PM
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Here are a few pictures I found in the photo galleries:






Please don't take offence if it's you or your picture.

The first two, OK, they're waves but the SUPer has caught them well before a shortboard could ever catch them. What if the guy on the shoulder paddled back the other way and went to catch the wave where it actually becomes a wave? Would he be dropping in? What if one of the three guys sitting paddled across a few metres and went to take that wave as a left? Would they be snaking or would the SUP be dropping in?

The third one, the guys are riding a swell before it's even a wave. What should the surfers on the inside do? Are they allowed to paddle for the wave and call the ski and SUPer off? Because it's not even a wave yet, and it looks like a righthander. Or should it belong to the people riding the swell?

The fourth one, it's also not a wave but the SUPer's "riding" it. The guy on the shortboard's given it up, but IMHO he's got right of way. I.e. if there were two guys on shortboards paddling and one was paddling ridiculously way out of position before it broke and claimed it you'd just ignore him and call him off. But that's a bit hard to do to a SUP, because they can ride swell before it becomes a wave and because they're already standing, so they're always "riding" the wave before anyone else as soon as they catch the swell/wave's momentum.

I'm curious to hear what you guys think? I'll post my (obviously biased) ideas later.

Lobes
885 posts
24 Feb 2010 12:03AM
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Good questions.

PeterP
845 posts
24 Feb 2010 12:44AM
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Technically speaking the first guy to get up and ride the swell has right of way - especially if you are on the inside (pic 1). But out of respect of the fact that you have an advantage being on a SUP I'd normally let the later "drop-in" have the wave - but I measure out that respect in lieu of the actions of the "drop-in". Sometimes the "drop-in" feels he has statutory rights to dropping in because I'm on SUP, in which case I start upholding the original rule on a one for you and one for me basis.

If a guy can take off closer to the breaking part of the wave - I just kick out.

Above seems to work in places with more defined take off spots - when waves don't seem to have a defined peak (pic 3) which happens in places here we generally accept party waves as long as you give room to the guy behind you.

Domo
NSW, 131 posts
24 Feb 2010 7:03AM
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I agree with PeterP and would add that the number of waves you are paddling into also comes into effect. If you are catching every wave there is, then it stands to reason that there is no other option for a less advantages rider to catch a wave other then to paddle into a wave that the SUP'er is on already. However if you are respectful of the other riders and allow some of the prime choice wave through, then in turn you should have right of way for those waves you are already riding.

DavidJohn
VIC, 17460 posts
24 Feb 2010 7:26AM
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PeterP said...



If a guy can take off closer to the breaking part of the wave - I just kick out.





Me to.. except I will often ride the shoulder well out of his way watching to see if he falls and if he does I'll take it back again..

Or if it's someone that I know I might share the wave with them..

DJ

goatman
NSW, 2151 posts
24 Feb 2010 7:27AM
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Haven't mals been doing this for years? They were half the reason I nearly gave up surfing. Common sense again should prevail but often doesn't and in an ideal world mals and sups would be taking off no further out than the rest of the crew. Obviously cause they can't handle late drops as well and paddle twice as quick they sit further out.

Generally the guy on the inside has right of way but that may be difficult to enforce with a 12 kg SUP dropping down the face. Personally I would always be looking to my inside and would pull out straight away if I see someone taking off inside.

From reading the other topic I would say you and Doggie mainly surf with giant tanker like SUPs which I guess are still the majority and would see a lot of this. The smaller sub 9 foot lightweight SUPs allow you to sit with or even 'in' from the pack and take off as late as a shortboard. You can also move around in the lineup very nimbly.

If it is crowded (which I generally avoid) I will sit as deep but closer to shore than the crew and get the medium ones - I don't like sitting out the back and making myself too obvious. Avoiding crowded lineups is the trick

OG SUP
VIC, 3516 posts
24 Feb 2010 8:24AM
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Most of the time I search out breaks with as few people as possible thats the advantage of owning a sup!

The smaller sups 9 ft and shorter sit in where the short boarders sit to take off anyway and we work in rotation as a rule. When I ride my 9.4 for example my ankles are lapping water most of the time, so I have little or no paddle advantage over anyone.

If I am riding a longer board and take off earlier I will pull off a wave if I see a short boarder / longborder go for it as I understand the advantage I have.

At certain breaks like PRK where it is a total free for all then the rules change and you need compete to get wave then you do what you need to do. I still have a view of what is a fair share of the waves and work to that as far as wave count goes.

I treat all at the line up they way I wish to be treated and in 90% of the cases it works fine.

Phill.

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
24 Feb 2010 7:34AM
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with in reason, i just tell um take the waves you wont, but give me the call early. i can aways get plenty of waves- it's no big deal

JonathanC
VIC, 1021 posts
24 Feb 2010 8:56AM
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Exactly what I do Lacey, if there are just a few guys there I always have a chat (that is unless they pretend I'm not there....what is that!?) and just tell them to take whatever they want. Usually you still get heaps. But then I never surf where it's really crowded point break, find I'd actually rather not surf than get caught up in all the agro crap. If it's too bad I just go for a distance paddle out the back on my wave board and enjoy the morning.

Tux
VIC, 3829 posts
24 Feb 2010 9:17AM
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What Phil said

hilly
WA, 7323 posts
24 Feb 2010 7:12AM
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Love the wounded shortboard riders whinge always comes up. Go out any crowded spot and see how many set waves the top of the pecking order give away lol.

Each day on it's merits. I have days when it is all happy share around with 10 to 15 various surf craft. Other days 2 or 3 and it is dog eat dog as no respect is given. Eg paddling my local on my own from dawn a couple of blow ins come out paddle straight to the inside full of stink eye no hellos and proceed to hassle for every wave. For ****s sake there are 3 of us out!! You end missing the best waves as you get too deep or put out of position. But they will not listen.

Piros
QLD, 6995 posts
24 Feb 2010 9:28AM
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"The Snake" definetly a grey area for the Sup when you are taking off 15 or 20m further out but it really just comes down to how many waves you are getting and letting through and if move around so you are not coming through the same pack of short boarders , you'll find the stink eye is pretty rare and the Snake doesn't become an issue.

On the other hand though if a short boarder leaves a crowded peak and paddles over to where a group of Sups are surfing the scrapes ...don't even think to give me a side ways glance.

Rob

goatman
NSW, 2151 posts
24 Feb 2010 10:53AM
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hilly said...

Love the wounded shortboard riders whinge always comes up. Go out any crowded spot and see how many set waves the top of the pecking order give away lol.


Ha ha.... exactly, the same few will usually get most of the sets because they deem themselves to be more 'worthy' than everyone else - or they can take off later on a gnarly reef break (fair enough).

There is always this double standard in the surfing world where it is OK for some craft to dominate (ie shortboards or mals) but heaven forbid anyone else should, even if they are taking off deeper and later - which I am fast coming to the conclusion is possible on a curvy SUP.

Most of the time I prefer to keep a low profile though and keep the vibe good.

daletor
VIC, 301 posts
24 Feb 2010 10:58AM
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JonathanC said...

(that is unless they pretend I'm not there....what is that!?)




If they pretend I am not there I just keep talking to them and ask them questions so they have to talk back. It is as much fun as Supping!

planesailing
WA, 380 posts
24 Feb 2010 8:45AM
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RULES RULES RULES @#$%^.
What ever happened to "the person with the biggest stick WINS".
...Hang on i will now remove my foot from my mouth.

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
24 Feb 2010 8:54AM
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planesailing said...

RULES RULES RULES @#$%^.
What ever happened to "the person with the biggest stick WINS".
...Hang on i will now remove my foot from my mouth.


And about 3 or 4 from your arse

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
24 Feb 2010 8:57AM
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Piros said...

On the other hand though if a short boarder leaves a crowded peak and paddles over to where a group of Sups are surfing the scrapes ...don't even think to give me a side ways glance.

Rob


Id rather surf a crowded peak than surf with a pack of SUPs, thats shortboard suicide

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
24 Feb 2010 9:28AM
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You guys are your own worst enemy.

paul.j
QLD, 3341 posts
24 Feb 2010 11:32AM
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HAHA thats a oldie and i'm the one getting droped in on, no complants from me though as thats what surfing with mates is about and something most short boarders have forgotten. Its all about fun!!!!

Jacko

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
24 Feb 2010 9:45AM
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Jacko, Ive shared heaps of waves with mates ect on small waves, once its over head high I recon you taking a great risk imo. Guess its up to the group surfing.

Jack Mack
NSW, 343 posts
24 Feb 2010 12:47PM
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It's been said here before and its still true
"welcome to the jungle"
Jason

mikeman
QLD, 692 posts
24 Feb 2010 11:53AM
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Legion: "The first two, OK, they're waves but the SUPer has caught them well before a shortboard could ever catch them. What if the guy on the shoulder paddled back the other way and went to catch the wave where it actually becomes a wave? Would he be dropping in? What if one of the three guys sitting paddled across a few metres and went to take that wave as a left? Would they be snaking or would the SUP be dropping in?"

This situation is not always as simple as this. If any surfer (no matter what they are riding) keeps on paddling onto the inside (or out the back) and thinks that this automatically gives them priority on a wave they are mistaken and shouldn't get surprised if someone fades or snakes them.

As we have a definate advantage on a SUP to get almost any wave we want to it does not mean that we should. SUP wave hogs are causing a lot of animosity out there and it will only get worse as more people take up the sport (especially those without a strong surfing background).


goatman
NSW, 2151 posts
24 Feb 2010 1:00PM
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doggie said...

You guys are your own worst enemy.



Just curious, do you actually ride a SUP? You seem to have a lot of negative opinion about them.

paul.j
QLD, 3341 posts
24 Feb 2010 12:01PM
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doggie said...

Jacko, Ive shared heaps of waves with mates ect on small waves, once its over head high I recon you taking a great risk imo. Guess its up to the group surfing.



Ha it's like 3ft, and sharing waves with mates is what it's about weather its 1ft or 10ft and if for some reason you hit each other then you sux it up and move on. There's still plenty of waves with no crowds if you want but if you go out burleigh or the alley and places like that then except to get faded on the odd occasion.

Closest to the peak of the wave when broken has the right, so if i sit way out the back and get on the swell first and cut to where the wave will break first its mine but if some one sits on the peak deeper than me its all his, seems easy to me.

Jacko


loco4olas
NSW, 1516 posts
24 Feb 2010 1:38PM
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paul.j said...


Closest to the peak of the wave when broken has the right, so if i sit way out the back and get on the swell first and cut to where the wave will break first its mine but if some one sits on the peak deeper than me its all his, seems easy to me.

Jacko




So if I'm on a short board and closest to the peak and 10m or so inside (towards the beach etc.) from the SUP, I have right of way? Or if the SUP is able to get inside me (closer to the peak) from his 10m further out position, is the wave now his (or hers)?

paul.j
QLD, 3341 posts
24 Feb 2010 12:38PM
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loco4olas said...

paul.j said...

Closest to the peak of the wave when broken has the right, so if i sit way out the back and get on the swell first and cut to where the wave will break first its mine but if some one sits on the peak deeper than me its all his, seems easy to me.

Jacko



Yeah BUT-just because you're on a SUP or a mal and can sit further out than a shortboarder does not mean that it's your wave just because you can get it 10m earlier-that attitude is a recipe for conflict with other surfers NOT on SUPs.

I ride both-but am more a shortboarder than a SUP rider.


I dont think so, a good surfer will know how to get waves of a sup anyday. I've surfed all my life and can get waves off SUP's when i get out on my short board(which is not very often). Most of the time SUP's only ride the shoulder anyway which leave the best part of the wave to be hit and with something out in front pushing over great section to hit the short boarders should love the drop ins. Of course the main factor in all this is common sense and normal surf respect with out that no one can help!!!!

Jacko

paul.j
QLD, 3341 posts
24 Feb 2010 12:43PM
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Remember this that is what surfing is about, seriously who cares if someone drops in. i'm sure there are bigger things to worry about in life. Go and hang out in the hospital and see whats important and what's not. I say just be happy you can be out there at all!!!

Jacko

bspot68
QLD, 166 posts
24 Feb 2010 12:48PM
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doggie said...

You guys are your own worst enemy.




i agree here we are sometime our own worst enemy's, if im with mates and i know its going to close down on him ill go, but a lot of sup guys dont even look to the inside and they just go not even giving the person on the inside the chance to make it. we bitch about mals and short boards dropping in but we have to start by doing the right thing ourselfs first!!!!

Diver
WA, 554 posts
24 Feb 2010 10:49AM
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Usually kick out, unless I clearly got the wave further out and was first on. Or stay on the shoulder if it was a set wave to get out of the way for the other waves coming through.

Frustrating thing I find is when mals out picking waves off well before the shorter boards and they don't share around, meanwhile giving you the eye cause you are getting waves, usually out on the shoulder. So your conscience gets to you and you start to let more waves through and nobody takes them

paul.j
QLD, 3341 posts
24 Feb 2010 12:55PM
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loco4olas said...

paul.j said...


Closest to the peak of the wave when broken has the right, so if i sit way out the back and get on the swell first and cut to where the wave will break first its mine but if some one sits on the peak deeper than me its all his, seems easy to me.

Jacko




So if I'm on a short board and closest to the peak and 10m or so inside (towards the beach etc.) from the SUP, I have right of way? Or if the SUP is able to get inside me (closer to the peak) from his 10m further out position, is the wave now his (or hers)?




I know you are a smart guy and its not that hard to work out so i'll leave it with you alright..




Legion
WA, 2222 posts
24 Feb 2010 10:57AM
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Hmm, this topic's been most enlightening to me. I didn't expect the answers I got.

goatman said...

hilly said...

Love the wounded shortboard riders whinge always comes up. Go out any crowded spot and see how many set waves the top of the pecking order give away lol.


Ha ha.... exactly, the same few will usually get most of the sets because they deem themselves to be more 'worthy' than everyone else - or they can take off later on a gnarly reef break (fair enough).

There is always this double standard in the surfing world where it is OK for some craft to dominate (ie shortboards or mals) but heaven forbid anyone else should, even if they are taking off deeper and later - which I am fast coming to the conclusion is possible on a curvy SUP.


OK, I'm one of those whinging shortboarders (obviously). The thing is, to dominate the pack you generally do have to be "worthy", in terms of either putting in years of effort and working your way through the pecking order to become a senior local, or being talented enough to put yourself deeper and more critical than anyone else (or just being a big scary mofo). With a SUP you (could) circumvent that whole pecking order and go from raw beginner (even with no water experience) to dominating within a few weeks. That's what worries me about SUP. That and the fact that wipeouts are far more dangerous than on a shortboard because (a) the equipment is more dangerous and (b) it's more likely to happen outside the pack and sweep through.

I had a few devil's advocate arguments that aren't really necessary based on your responses so far.



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"Help me out re snaking" started by Legion