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Forums > Stand Up Paddle General

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Help me out re snaking

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Created by Legion > 9 months ago, 23 Feb 2010
paul.j

paul.j

QLD, 3358 posts
24 Feb 2010 3:01PM
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You mean droping in like these?






Newmo

Newmo

VIC, 471 posts
24 Feb 2010 4:01PM
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Hi Crew
Those are some nice waves and the SUP boys look to be ripping it up. I don't hang it on anyone for their choice of surfcraft and nor should I. To be able to take of earlier and a little deeper at times is an advantage on a SUP. We all started out kooks at some stage and gave a few in the line-up a scare but older and more experienced heads now give way, don't take every wave, call shortys onto waves as we can see the sets better and so on. Reading this post I get the feeling it was to stir the pot and thats what it did. Be respectfull out in the water share the stoke, they are not your waves, they belong to all.
Cheers Scott

Legion

Legion

WA, 2222 posts
24 Feb 2010 1:04PM
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CMC said...

OK, you just lost me. SUP Mentality???

How can you generalise with a comment like SUP Mentality???.

OK, wrong phrase. I just meant "how people who ride SUPs think". It seems you're all pretty fanatical on here so that's why I lurk on this forum, to find out how you think (e.g. why you like it, what you think of other water users).

CMC said...

Not everyone is a danger or a hog, this can not be made any clearer.

Agreed, but it's very easy to be a hog on a SUP and it'll only take a couple at any given break to dominate it. That's my fear. You can't paddle out on a booger or shortboard and be a hog. If you try you'll get dropped in on and/or told to leave. If e.g. I tried to do the same to a SUP, (a) it's too dangerous to drop in on one IMHO and (b) they're intimidating standing above you with a paddle and (c) if they laugh at you/take no notice/etc they can paddle circles around you.

paul.j

paul.j

QLD, 3358 posts
24 Feb 2010 3:07PM
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Just Wrong said...

Closest to the curl has the right of way. If a SUP takes off on an unbroken section and cuts back towards the section that is GOING to break but in doing so, crosses the path of prone paddlers, it's really a grey area. Whilst its not probably the best of form, theoretically they still have the right of way.
Rules about dropping in have been around for ages. Don't see any need to alter them simply someone came with an idea of how to get into the wave earlier. It will all work itself out in the fullness of time.
Is this all about dropping in or is it more about the fact there is 100% more aggro and 100% less tolerance in the water these days.

BTW, thanks to the experienced pronie that dropped in twice on Sunday and rode his board laying down beside me, whilst grinning from ear to ear and to the hoots of his pronie mates. A lesser person would have put three slice marks over his back as they went up and smacked the lip, but then again, I paddled even further down to the suckier section and surfed that instead.

And ther moral of the story is "See anyone can be a dangerous fool if they try hard enough"

(Oi Jacko, are you suffering from salt water withdrawl symptoms?)



YES

goatman

goatman

NSW, 2151 posts
24 Feb 2010 4:08PM
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Legion said...
You can't paddle out on a booger or shortboard and be a hog.


Ha ha....you are indeed slightly delusional, there are a couple of breaks around here that Boogers totally dominate cause they can!!

There are more hogs on shortboards than the whole of the other craft put together!!

loco4olas

loco4olas

NSW, 1520 posts
24 Feb 2010 4:10PM
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goatman said...
The reason I used the term 'troll' is because they clearly don't SUP and all their posts are usually aimed at an emotional response. Perhaps Legion is sincere and that is fine. Of Doggies 1400 posts 99% are not in SUP and once again all his SUP posts seem to be geared towards getting a reaction.


BUT-this is the right forum to obtain the view of the Aussie SUP community. Again-Legion and Doggie are being respectful and by asking questions, perhaps drawing attention to an issue, that those not as familiar with the 'rules' of the surf as some here, and educating others.

goatman said...
You ride a SUP Matt, and so would know that you can indeed get many more waves without necessarily annoying others in the line up. Firstly, by surfing a crappier bank down the beach or getting the unwanted waves that others can't paddle into.

Hmmm-I tend to be a bit of hog no matter what I'm riding-kinda' comes with years of surfing and being OK at it.. NOT as bad as Stretch or TC however.


goatman said...
Yes some people are hogs and take advantage - this will be an issue along with beginner SUPs in the lineup. In fact I reckon it will be a nightmare and am not looking forward to it becoming too popular as I suspect it will.


I think guys that are experienced skilled surfers (like you, Casso, Jacko etc.) aren't the issue-it's those that lack the skill and awareness (and who generally ride the larger boards as a natural consequence of their skill level and sometimes preference) that are the concern.


goatman said...
Also I didn't say that because it was done before it 'makes it right' was just curious as to why he is so 'surprised' by it.


Ah, because as short boarder he's probably pi55ed at yet another craft coming into the lineup, often huge and ridden by inexperienced riders careening through with little disregard for the established 'order' or 'rules'-fair enough, particularly if you've seen it all before with the mal revival.




Legion said...
You can't paddle out on a booger or shortboard and be a hog.



Bullsh1t! Try surfing Winki, LA or even the Wedge when Ben Player and his cohorts are out there-suddenly shortboarders become the 2nd class citizens in the surf!

loco4olas

loco4olas

NSW, 1520 posts
24 Feb 2010 4:13PM
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Waterhorse said...

Hi Crew
Those are some nice waves and the SUP boys look to be ripping it up. I don't hang it on anyone for their choice of surfcraft and nor should I. To be able to take of earlier and a little deeper at times is an advantage on a SUP. We all started out kooks at some stage and gave a few in the line-up a scare but older and more experienced heads now give way, don't take every wave, call shortys onto waves as we can see the sets better and so on. Reading this post I get the feeling it was to stir the pot and thats what it did. Be respectfull out in the water share the stoke, they are not your waves, they belong to all.
Cheers Scott


Kinda' sums it up.

Legion

Legion

WA, 2222 posts
24 Feb 2010 1:23PM
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Waterhorse said...

Reading this post I get the feeling it was to stir the pot and thats what it did.

*Sigh* I'm not trolling.

MickV said...

I'm not sure why you're terrified.

Because of this:
Just Wrong said...

... someone came with an idea of how to get into the wave earlier.

OK, here was my devil's advocate question:

What if a crew of tow surfers turned up at your break and started taking all the sets because they could? They'd have an advantage over you and the mals and the shortboards and the boogers. Would that scare you?

That's a similar scenario to SUP to me, but it's been prevented by the $ barrier, and they seem to self-regulate to some extent. If they don't, there's generally a fair amount of complaining (e.g. there was a topic on here recently about towing by lacey's lane or someone). I don't come across tow-ins often since they do seem to go to less accessible waves and there just aren't many of them around (here). I'm afraid of SUPs because you have a similar advantage but it has the potential to become much more popular and to frequent the more popular spots.

Same sort of thing with windsurfers or kitesurfers or surfboats or ... etc. The wind-powered guys don't often clash with wave riders because if it's that windy we're not out. The surfboats are often complained about and are hugely dangerous but thankfully there aren't many around. SUP OTOH are in direct competition with me. If it's good for surfing, it's good for SUPing.

Legion

Legion

WA, 2222 posts
24 Feb 2010 1:34PM
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goatman said...

Legion said...
You can't paddle out on a booger or shortboard and be a hog.


Ha ha....you are indeed slightly delusional, there are a couple of breaks around here that Boogers totally dominate cause they can!!

Well, obviously if it's a booger wave. And if there was a pack of boogers and one guy paddled out who had the ability and/or right he'd be allowed to dominate. But if you were a blow-in you'd be sent in. As I already said in the part you didn't quote.

goatman said...

There are more hogs on shortboards than the whole of the other craft put together!!

There are more shortboards than other craft. And I don't have a problem with someone hogging if they "deserve" it (i.e. senior local, higher ability level, etc). If I'm sitting on a shoulder scared of a gnarly reef ledge and someone's willing to paddle and take off deeper and more critical I'll recognise that.

Legion

Legion

WA, 2222 posts
24 Feb 2010 1:38PM
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paul.j said...

You mean droping in like these?


If you look like that, you can drop in on me all day long

62mac

62mac

WA, 24860 posts
24 Feb 2010 1:39PM
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Great videos Jacko

Snake is a must at some of the popular point breaks on the Gold Coast.
The real comp is, out snake the other snakes otherwise your just going
to sit there and watch. Sad but true, we have 7 year snakes in the lineup
they learn early

allans snakes anyone

rollo90

rollo90

QLD, 221 posts
24 Feb 2010 3:44PM
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Legion .......dude you are the best forum quoter ever.

95% of the guys I surf with have the same motto

"LET A FEW GO THROUGH"

the other 5% I choose not to surf with anymore.

when ever I ride my shortboard there is always one surfer hogging everything.

does anyone on here work?

Newmo

Newmo

VIC, 471 posts
24 Feb 2010 4:46PM
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I'm at work

rollo90

rollo90

QLD, 221 posts
24 Feb 2010 3:47PM
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62mac said...

Great videos Jacko

Snake is a must at some of the popular point breaks on the Gold Coast.
The real comp is, out snake the other snakes otherwise your just going
to sit there and watch. Sad but true, we have 7 year snakes in the lineup
they learn early

allans snakes anyone


wasn't snake on Degrassi Juinor High?

CMC

CMC

QLD, 3954 posts
24 Feb 2010 3:50PM
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rollo90 said...

Legion .......dude you are the best forum quoter ever.

95% of the guys I surf with have the same motto

"LET A FEW GO THROUGH"

the other 5% I choose not to surf with anymore.

when ever I ride my shortboard there is always one surfer hogging everything.

does anyone on here work?




Accounts day, need something to keep me sane. I hate doing the accounts!

paul.j

paul.j

QLD, 3358 posts
24 Feb 2010 3:56PM
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Broken leg so i'm watching ang work

oliver

oliver

3952 posts
24 Feb 2010 1:58PM
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This is one good **** fight.

I think Legion has some very valid points, and can understand where he is coming from and he shouldn't be labeled a troll for speaking his mind.

I guess the real problem is what he can do about it. Unfortunately, I don't think a whole lot can be done.

Personally, I hate all that pecking order surf crap and use my sup to get away from those stresses - often all it's means is an extra 200m - 1km paddle to the next break. Where I'm not getting in anyone elses way but still in screaming distance.

rollo90

rollo90

QLD, 221 posts
24 Feb 2010 3:59PM
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well I can not lie I am at work too.
well watching my staff work.

doggie

doggie

WA, 15849 posts
24 Feb 2010 2:06PM
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goatman said...

Legion said...

This is my reason for this topic. This is what I'm curious about. Currently it seems that the SUP has right of way. I mean I'd probably let them take the wave in either situation. But what if he takes every set this way? He's got a paddle advantage to catch the wave, and an advantage to paddle back out in 1/4 the time it takes me. And then what if a few of his mates paddle out?

The way it used to be (pre-SUP), if you wanted the most waves you needed to put in time and effort to entitle yourself. That advantage is now gone. Do you beat them or join them?

Also, like doggie implies, I'm not even going to put myself in a position to catch waves near a SUP. The (lack of) manoeverability and danger precludes me being anywhere near them. Too scary, consequences too high. I know how close I can get to a kook on a shortboard. Avoiding a kook on a SUP puts me way out of where I want to be (out of the way but close to the critical areas - take-off zone, shoulder, etc).


I think part of the reason for the topic is that you and your 'mate' doggie are what is known as internet 'trolls'.

I mean really..... goatboats did it for years, then mals (still doing it) and now SUPs.

What do you want to hear....I say join em mate. I got the sh!ts with crowded surf and the general amount of tools found at any given spot in Sydney so got a SUP. I get 5 times as many waves am twice as fit and best of all have heaps more fun.

Personally I try and avoid crowds (cause you can on a SUP) or keep a low profile, and you still get tons of waves.



So how am I a troll?

Legion

Legion

WA, 2222 posts
24 Feb 2010 2:07PM
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oliver said...

I think Legion has some very valid points, and can understand where he is coming from ...

I guess the real problem is what he can do about it. Unfortunately, I don't think a whole lot can be done.

I agree. The part that annoys me the most is that SUP allows people to circumvent the whole learning process. You skip the learning to stand up part that takes so long and with the paddle advantage go straight to the top of the pecking order. And when number of SUPers > number of waves per set, it's potentially all over for the rest. Sure, shortboards, mals, boogers can dominate sets as well, but usually they do so because they've had years and years of experience.

I'll also reiterate I don't think my fears apply to (m)any of you on here from what I've read. But you probably make up a small percentage of SUPers out there.

If I'm sitting in the water and a carload or boatload of boogers or shortboards turn up, yes, I'll be annoyed but unless it's tiny I know I'll still do alright. If a carload of SUPs turn up (and they're greedy), I might as well go home. If there is a carload of SUPs out every day, where does that leave me?

GS

GS

WA, 42 posts
24 Feb 2010 2:16PM
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Land sailing!!

rab

rab

WA, 36 posts
24 Feb 2010 2:20PM
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Legion said...

oliver said...

I think Legion has some very valid points, and can understand where he is coming from ...

I guess the real problem is what he can do about it. Unfortunately, I don't think a whole lot can be done.

I agree. The part that annoys me the most is that SUP allows people to circumvent the whole learning process. You skip the learning to stand up part that takes so long and with the paddle advantage go straight to the top of the pecking order. And when number of SUPers > number of waves per set, it's potentially all over for the rest. Sure, shortboards, mals, boogers can dominate sets as well, but usually they do so because they've had years and years of experience.


up ** creek with a whole lota paddles

I'll also reiterate I don't think my fears apply to (m)any of you on here from what I've read. But you probably make up a small percentage of SUPers out there.

If I'm sitting in the water and a carload or boatload of boogers or shortboards turn up, yes, I'll be annoyed but unless it's tiny I know I'll still do alright. If a carload of SUPs turn up (and they're greedy), I might as well go home. If there is a carload of SUPs out every day, where does that leave me?


Kagey

Kagey

569 posts
24 Feb 2010 2:21PM
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Select to expand quote












Some of the positions these guys are in seem almost impossible without a paddle. In a lot of the pictures the paddle is quite loaded up. Some of them really don't look like they're turning off the rail. All of them look (to my untrained eye) like the paddle plays a significant role.


Legion thanks for posting these great pics...skillful guys huh? and just showing yet another great way to enjoy riding waves.

I know you're claiming to be polite and even dressing your behaviour up to be labelled as playing devils advocate but I just think you're s*t stirring. I love supping that's why I use this particular forum... I'm sure there's one for shortboarders??

oliver

oliver

3952 posts
24 Feb 2010 2:21PM
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Legion said...

I'll also reiterate I don't think my fears apply to (m)any of you on here from what I've read. But you probably make up a small percentage of SUPers out there.


I think you are right about that. Getting on this forum and banging on about etiquette is like preaching to the converted.

I've seen what you are talking about first hand - other sups taking every set wave at the expense of the others in the lineup. I've also seen first hand agro directed at friends for no other reason other than the fact that they were on a different type of surf craft.

Have you thought about trying SUP?

Newmo

Newmo

VIC, 471 posts
24 Feb 2010 5:22PM
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Maybe you can turn up at the next SUP demo day
Then you can try and circumvent that learning process and go to the top of the heap

Legion

Legion

WA, 2222 posts
24 Feb 2010 2:28PM
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Kagey said...

Legion thanks for posting these great pics...skillful guys huh? and just showing yet another great way to enjoy riding waves.

Like I said, it's not for me.

Kagey said...

I know you're claiming to be polite and even dressing your behaviour up to be labelled as playing devils advocate but I just think you're s*t stirring. I love supping that's why I use this particular forum... I'm sure there's one for shortboarders??

Yeah, there are a few. And they'd all agree with me and I wouldn't get any other opinion but my own. That's not a useful debate.

CraigS

CraigS

WA, 5 posts
24 Feb 2010 2:30PM
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I've been an habitual background lurker on these forums for a while now and never really been tempted to post anything, but this lot has tempted me into virgin territory for post #1.

What a great read, I've had a smile on my face watching Legion battle his corner. Go hard fella, great entertainment.

My response is so what, it doesnt affect me. Last 4 surfs I've had the total heads in water has been me + one other and when he came out we shot the ** for a while then I went in - didnt want to crowd him let alone worry about snaking or dropping in.

Just for the record, my collection is boards in 6, 7, 8 & 9 and SUP in 10 and until recently 11 (bugger snapped in 2).

Legion

Legion

WA, 2222 posts
24 Feb 2010 2:32PM
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oliver said...

Have you thought about trying SUP?


Waterhorse said...

Maybe you can turn up at the next SUP demo day


Legion said...

... what if I enjoyed it?

doggie

doggie

WA, 15849 posts
24 Feb 2010 2:40PM
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goatman said...

loco4olas said...

Doggie's hardly a troll-he has something like 1400 comments on Seabreeze.

And, I think Legion is asking pertinent questions in a polite, respectful and reasonable manner.

You're right John goatboats and mals have done it and that sucked for other surfers-do you think that your getting 5 times as many waves may be an issue for the other surfers around you NOT on SUPs?

Just because others before you 'did it'-doesn't make it right.....


The reason I used the term 'troll' is because they clearly don't SUP and all their posts are usually aimed at an emotional response. Perhaps Legion is sincere and that is fine. Of Doggies 1400 posts 99% are not in SUP and once again all his SUP posts seem to be geared towards getting a reaction.

You ride a SUP Matt, and so would know that you can indeed get many more waves without necessarily annoying others in the line up. Firstly, by surfing a crappier bank down the beach or getting the unwanted waves that others can't paddle into.

Yes some people are hogs and take advantage - this will be an issue along with beginner SUPs in the lineup. In fact I reckon it will be a nightmare and am not looking forward to it becoming too popular as I suspect it will.

Also I didn't say that because it was done before it 'makes it right' was just curious as to why he is so 'surprised' by it.

Really, there are bigger things in life than worrying about this ****e, still as Jacko said all good internet fun I suppose.

PS Legion your photos just show what I was talking about and you really should try short SUP surfing sometime. I have a couple you can borrow anytime if you live in sydney.




Funny thing is that Ive never tried to get a reaction at all just stated my position on the subject. Couldnt give a stuff as Ive said before I dont surf around SUPs and most of my fave spots they dont go there. BTW I have tried SUPs as I have also stated.

Kagey

Kagey

569 posts
24 Feb 2010 2:46PM
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Legion said...

Kagey said...

Legion thanks for posting these great pics...skillful guys huh? and just showing yet another great way to enjoy riding waves.

Like I said, it's not for me.

Kagey said...

I know you're claiming to be polite and even dressing your behaviour up to be labelled as playing devils advocate but I just think you're s*t stirring. I love supping that's why I use this particular forum... I'm sure there's one for shortboarders??

Yeah, there are a few. And they'd all agree with me and I wouldn't get any other opinion but my own. That's not a useful debate.






I speak to heaps of ocean users who don't mind me in the line up at all so no I don't think they'd ALL agree with you.

I did like your original query re 'snaking', yes it caused plenty of debate....but that wasn't your real motive was it you are simply here to ** stir, that is a statement by myself and it really isn't up for debate.





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