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How springy should your paddle be?

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Created by Lobes > 9 months ago, 5 Feb 2010
Lobes
885 posts
5 Feb 2010 2:03PM
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I dropped into my local SUP shop this morning to pick up Casso's new mag and while there I poked around at some of this seasons gear. Theres not a whole lot you can tell from seeing a board hanging there on the rack but I did get a geezer at all the new paddles.

Given the opportunity to compare a lot of the paddles side by side I found that the flex varied a lot. The Quickblade seemed to have by far the springiest shaft.

My question to everyone and maybe the OC guys could have some input here, is it better to have a flexier or a stiff shaft? Are there pros and cons to either and does it require a modified paddling technique in any way?

I'm 6' and 95kg, I go 5" over in surf and 8" in distance

Zimbo Reagan
WA, 469 posts
5 Feb 2010 2:48PM
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I am no expert (famous last words) but this is what I have noticed in my experience about springy vs stiffer paddles:

1) Springy paddles generate the "power" portion of the stroke at a different point in the stroke.

2) Your stroke will change depending on whether you are using one vs the other.

3) Was quite visually satisfying to see the shaft bend when you really crank it up

Lobes
885 posts
5 Feb 2010 2:54PM
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Hey yeah the best action shots are when the paddle is loaded up

Did you have a preference for either flex level or much of a muchness?

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
5 Feb 2010 5:06PM
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Here's something really obvious from the OC scene.

It is very rare to see carbon shaft paddles. The most popular combination is a 'Hybrid' wooden shaft, carbon blade. The common consensus is that wooden shafts are more forgiving and have a more natural flex. Added to this in Hawaii the rules state that for OC6 racing with centuries old tradition you must use wood in the shaft and blade, it can be reinforced with Carbon. Here in OZ there are no regulations as such and even the most elite teams use wooden shafts. There are also no regulation for OC1 or OC2 anywhere yet people still use predominantly wood. The wooden paddles are as light or lighter than many carbon paddles. These guys have tried carbon and come back to wood.

Seeing this I decided to make myself a wooden shaft SUP paddle, I used PU foam vacuum bagged with epoxy for the blade and palm grip. Not only does it work it feels great to use. I now have some more exotic timbers and will resume the experiment for Mark 2 and 3. Strength is no issue as many timbers are laminated with fibreglass, carbon or kevlar between them.

Lobes
885 posts
5 Feb 2010 3:19PM
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I have noticed all the OC guys still use wood shaft.

My understanding was that wood SUP paddles were less durable and/or weighed more. I consider extra weight one of the main reasons I probably wouldn't go for a wood paddle but interested to hear others thoughts.

As I see it the mechanics of an OC and SUP paddle stroke are different. The SUP stroke had a much higher tendency to pull you off balance so a lighter swing weight in the paddle has a large affect. But I am not an OC paddler of any repute so I dont know how crucial balance is for them or paddle weight

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
5 Feb 2010 5:52PM
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The mechanics of the stroke are not different at all.

In fact the best OC paddlers (of which I am not one!) are jumping on SUP right off the bat and kicking everyone's butt. To quote Travis Grant 'exactly the same except standing up'

The only difference in the stroke is the cadence as per the longer paddle. OC especially on OC1 is much faster. Balance, try sitting on a OC1 in flat water at some point, OK if you lean left! It makes standing on your SUP feel like concrete. Then try paddling in the ocean or the waves. Then paddle at 5 times the rate while holding balance in either. You can get away (and most do) with average to terrible technique on SUP, not on OC1.

I do not believe that carbon shafts are significantly stronger (carbon as a material is very brittle) although I could be wrong, I would want to test them. Weight comes down to type of timber used and lamination technique. IMO we all use carbon for SUP as that was what come first to us not because people tried either and decided which was better.

Not suggesting you buy wood, merely that SUP is new, OC is far advanced in trial and error and in the end they use wood. There may come a time where wood becomes more popular in SUP also.

billboard
QLD, 2816 posts
5 Feb 2010 6:10PM
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There are some excellent paddles on the market and certainly enough of the premium brands being used for you to borrow some of the better ones to try and see what feels good for you. What works for someone may not work for you at all - no matter how good it may be and how much it costs. I personally use one of the premium brands (for surfing) and only because it works for me and I find it comfortable and efficient for the way I paddle but I have tried another premium brand and I simply can not paddle with it. I know it's obviously related to the way I paddle because many many great paddlers use the brand and they sure as hell know more about paddling than I ever will - it just doesn't feel comfortable to me so I stick to what I am happy with and not what everyone says I should be using. So I guess what I am saying is - use a paddle that feels good in your hands and is a comfortable weight and is strong enough for its intended use and feels efficient in the water and fits in with your budget - cos at the end of the day you are the one paddling with it.

OG SUP
VIC, 3516 posts
5 Feb 2010 8:16PM
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In the ASP 2 Mambo Story you will see a pic of Jason Westman doing a rippin layback with one of his hand made wooden paddles.

He loves them to bits

Phill

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
6 Feb 2010 1:18AM
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Soft.. Flexy.. Springy.. and Stiff.. They are all very different.

I don't like soft and I don't like stiff... but that's just me.

I like flexy for normal every day paddling and just cruising along.. but try and paddle real hard and they can sometimes be a little too flexy.

Springy (what I think the Kialoa's are) is great for paddling hard and paddling into the wind.. and still offer some flex when cruising along.

I don't think you can really compare OC paddles with SUP paddles.. With OC your lower hand is only about a hand width from the blade so how can there be any flexing going on.. Maybe just a smidge.. With SUP your lower hand is half way along a very long shaft... IMO for SUP carbon wins hands down..

DJ

mikeman
QLD, 692 posts
6 Feb 2010 12:49PM
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One thing I have found it that flexible paddles are easier on the shoulder joints than stiffer ones.

As I do a lot of "marathon" paddling I look for a paddle that will not cause me injuries over long distances. The size and shape of the blade are also factors in the mix. I don't think I have found the right combination yet as I are still doing some R&D...

Lobes
885 posts
6 Feb 2010 2:13PM
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There must be a lot of different permutations of blade size and paddle flex. I'm thinking a very flexible paddle may be good for very long distances. but does that affect the size of the blade you can comfortably use?

Shaft flexiness seems to be a drawback mainly for powerful paddling so unless you're racing or actually trying to paddle onto a wave I dont see a downside

Kauaifiveo
90 posts
6 Feb 2010 3:04PM
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I actually find the Quick blade to be less "springy" I have used Kialoa paddles for a while and find the shaft to be more springy in the Kialoa's. Personally, the Kialoa paddles feel better when surfing, but the quick blade is a faster, more efficient paddler and is easier to catch waves with. IMO. Right now using a Quick Blade Kanaha and loving it!

hilly
WA, 7279 posts
6 Feb 2010 5:33PM
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About this springy


CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
7 Feb 2010 9:57AM
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DavidJohn said...

Soft.. Flexy.. Springy.. and Stiff.. They are all very different.

I don't like soft and I don't like stiff... but that's just me.

I like flexy for normal every day paddling and just cruising along.. but try and paddle real hard and they can sometimes be a little too flexy.

Springy (what I think the Kialoa's are) is great for paddling hard and paddling into the wind.. and still offer some flex when cruising along.

I don't think you can really compare OC paddles with SUP paddles.. With OC your lower hand is only about a hand width from the blade so how can there be any flexing going on.. Maybe just a smidge.. With SUP your lower hand is half way along a very long shaft... IMO for SUP carbon wins hands down..

DJ




Don't be scared to say something that you think may go against Kioloa DJ, they make great wooden shaft OC paddles. In fact most of the elite paddlers use them. Ask them to send you a light weight wooden shaft SUP paddle and I think you will be pleasantly surprised of how much you like it. Try to get the exact same design as you use now for a fair and accurate comparison.

All I am saying is that just because we all used carbon first does not mean that in 10 years we will still be. Many of the paddles on the market not made by C4 (my favourite!) Kioloa, QB, Kia Kaha etc are a lot heavier than my $25 total, Miranti $4 a piece from Mitre 10 effort as an experiment. It paddles a lot better than most of them also. And yes I have tried quite a few. It is very difficult to explain but there is really is something that feels good about the flex and the way the weight is distributed, it has less of a pendulum effect during changes and stroke recovery than what you feel with most paddles with a super light shaft and weight in the blade. Carbon is not the end of the road, trust me. People are already experimenting.

My point is simply that until you have actually had the chance to try other things extensively nobody has any real basis to make decisions about what is best just yet. Keep an open mind, we are young, free and the future is extremely unknown.

Lobes
885 posts
9 Feb 2010 3:14PM
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I used to row (sweep oared) in high school and while I was competing we switched from wooden paddles to carbon-kevlar mix. IIRC the shaft was CF and the blade Kevlar or maybe vice-versa.

It was very noticeable from a weight point of view and also a very different 'feel' through the water. Wood oars maybe a bit softer in the flex but also seemed less responsive to me (eg a carbon shaft will revert back to straight with greater spring than a wooden) even though a wooden possibly has more flex overall.

I dunno its pretty anecdotal really but the point is they are still using carbon fibre for a variety of applications in rowing and many other sports. I cant think of an example in any sport where they began using carbon fibre equipment and then reverted back to a wood or other material (i stand to be corrected).

Piros
QLD, 6936 posts
9 Feb 2010 10:09PM
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mikeman said...

One thing I have found it that flexible paddles are easier on the shoulder joints than stiffer ones.

As I do a lot of "marathon" paddling I look for a paddle that will not cause me injuries over long distances. The size and shape of the blade are also factors in the mix. I don't think I have found the right combination yet as I are still doing some R&D...


Totally agree if you have rusty shoulders the more flex the better , the more paddleing you do shoulder strain becomes a big problem.

Rob



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