Forums > Stand Up Paddle General

Making the 14' Jav more stable.

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Created by DavidJohn > 9 months ago, 24 Mar 2012
DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
24 Mar 2012 3:23PM
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Does anyone think this will work?

I'm looking forward to testing it.

DJ











BruceT
VIC, 93 posts
24 Mar 2012 3:40PM
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As long as it doesn't break off when you hit a jellyfish, hula-hoop or whatever else is floating around in the bay

boofy
NSW, 2110 posts
24 Mar 2012 3:44PM
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Hey DJ
I am wondering because you have the same surface area of fin and now you will have a flow of water between the bolts it may be worse as your board tips from side to side, because whatever stabilityyou get from a normal fin comes from the water trapped in the 90 degree area that it makes. Lacey will know for sure
Cheers Boof

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
24 Mar 2012 3:51PM
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boofy said...

Hey DJ
I am wondering because you have the same surface area of fin and now you will have a flow of water between the bolts it may be worse as your board tips from side to side, because whatever stabilityyou get from a normal fin comes from the water trapped in the 90 degree area that it makes. Lacey will know for sure
Cheers Boof


High speed and windsurfing this would not work.. but at our slow paddling speeds it just might work.

I'm thinking the fin area close to the board does not do much for stability and is mostly there to join the part of the fin that does to work (the bit more towards the tip) and the board.. I'm thinking that it will change an 11" fin to a 13" fin.. I'm thinking it should be quite noticeable.

DJ

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
24 Mar 2012 3:53PM
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BruceT said...

As long as it doesn't break off when you hit a jellyfish, hula-hoop or whatever else is floating around in the bay


Ha.. I'm looking forward to slicing up some jellies..

The big thing will be remembering to hope off before it gets too shallow..

DJ

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
24 Mar 2012 4:01PM
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I'd probably be more inclined to try little stabiliser side biters, similar to what Lacey was stuffing around with...

The Jamie Mitchell is just as fast isn't it? And more stable! Go on DJ, get a Jamie Custom for yourself.

boofy
NSW, 2110 posts
24 Mar 2012 4:02PM
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DavidJohn said...

boofy said...

Hey DJ
I am wondering because you have the same surface area of fin and now you will have a flow of water between the bolts it may be worse as your board tips from side to side, because whatever stabilityyou get from a normal fin comes from the water trapped in the 90 degree area that it makes. Lacey will know for sure
Cheers Boof


High speed and windsurfing this would not work.. but at our slow paddling speeds it just might work.

I'm thinking the fin area close to the board does not do much for stability and is mostly there to join the part of the fin that does to work (the bit more towards the tip) and the board.. I'm thinking that it will change an 11" fin to a 13" fin.. I'm thinking it should be quite noticeable.

DJ



Yeah Ok so it is more of a leverage principle, I hope it works, imagine the bolts as a slim aerodynamic carbon rod you may be onto a good thing
Cheers Boof

PeterP
825 posts
24 Mar 2012 2:57PM
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I've used the std 10.5 Dolphin fin on the Jav and it does seem to stabilize it a bit for ocean paddling - you need a fin with a bit more area in the tip + perhaps a little longer...The extra drag is neglible

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
24 Mar 2012 5:11PM
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dj, i'm going to guess you will get a keel/ pendulum effect. i think it might 'draw out' the tippy ness .


interesting, let us know how it goes for you

cheers

aus301
QLD, 2039 posts
24 Mar 2012 5:14PM
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It might work while you are paddling along under your own steam, but my guess is as soon as you get on a decent runner and get the board going a bit quicker it will cavitate, probably making the board less stable and slower.

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
24 Mar 2012 7:56PM
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aus301 said...

It might work while you are paddling along under your own steam, but my guess is as soon as you get on a decent runner and get the board going a bit quicker it will cavitate, probably making the board less stable and slower.


I'm thinking of only using this while paddling flat water and only up to my max paddling speed.. Not surfing.. Not even catching runners.. Just flat water.. and river use where the odd boat wake often causes me to struggle.. I'm just trying to slow down that quick initial tip that these boards tend to have if you are tall, heavy and clumsy.. I can't see how adding little side fins like Lacey's would help me much and big long fins are very hard to find these days because they are all for power boxes.

DJ

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
24 Mar 2012 7:17PM
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DavidJohn said...

aus301 said...

It might work while you are paddling along under your own steam, but my guess is as soon as you get on a decent runner and get the board going a bit quicker it will cavitate, probably making the board less stable and slower.


I'm thinking of only using this while paddling flat water and only up to my max paddling speed.. Not surfing.. Not even catching runners.. Just flat water.. and river use where the odd boat wake often causes me to struggle.. I'm just trying to slow down that quick initial tip that these boards tend to have if you are tall, heavy and clumsy.. I can't see how adding little side fins like Lacey's would help me much and big long fins are very hard to find these days because they are all for power boxes.

DJ




agree dj. the bonzers keep the board straight, whitewater grip and some stability. but i don't think they would do much for what you are looking for.

have tried a reasonable sized broad based fin

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
24 Mar 2012 9:24PM
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agree dj. the bonzers keep the board straight, whitewater grip and some stability. but i don't think they would do much for what you are looking for.

have tried a reasonable sized broad based fin




Yes.. I've been using a 11-12" dolphin fin and that helps some.. I'm not a big fan of board based fins like most weed fins because they often have less area in the fins tip.. and that's where you need area if you're after stability.

DJ

SandS
VIC, 5904 posts
24 Mar 2012 9:28PM
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I recon you will feel it slow you down even while paddling in flat water. Too much drag.

Will be interesting to here your comments, after testing .

I think a longer fin would have less drag than the two bits of all thread.

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
24 Mar 2012 10:29PM
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SandS said...

I recon you will feel it slow you down even while paddling in flat water. Too much drag.

Will be interesting to here your comments, after testing .

I think a longer fin would have less drag than the two bits of all thread.


Maybe it will.. But I can't get a longer fin.. If I could I would not have gone to this much trouble.

I'm not sure if the s/s shafts will create much drag at our slow speeds.. and should be so little I doubt you could feel any difference.. My main concern is flex in the shafts.. I might need three.

I might have to mount my GoPro under my board to see what's going on as I paddle..

I can feel a big difference in stability going from an 8" fin to a 10" fin.. Or even a 10" to a 12" fin.. So I'm hoping this will make a noticeable difference.

DJ

aus301
QLD, 2039 posts
24 Mar 2012 9:37PM
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I could be wrong, but I think with a bit of time and effort you could cut and sand a power box base to fit a US box. Drill a couple of holes, pin and drill and you are away.

nev
NSW, 55 posts
24 Mar 2012 10:40PM
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What about a retractable centre board DJ? get the Jig saw out . I have paddled an old D2 wind surfer a fair bit on flat water ( super round long skinny thing) Its about 24 inches wide and very unstable at rest but fine when moving. if I am turning around or boat wake is comming I just give it a bit of centre board (its fully retractable) and its more stable then a 30 inch flat bottom.
I recon this concept could work for flat water race boards allowing them to get the width right down as you only need the stability of wide boards when starting off or turning.
The board makers would hate it though as its a bit of mucking about to make a good retractable centreboard.

Nev

PeterP
825 posts
24 Mar 2012 7:41PM
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if all else fails you can try these from Carbonerro:




DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
25 Mar 2012 12:08AM
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nev said...

What about a retractable centre board DJ? get the Jig saw out . I have paddled an old D2 wind surfer a fair bit on flat water ( super round long skinny thing) Its about 24 inches wide and very unstable at rest but fine when moving. if I am turning around or boat wake is comming I just give it a bit of centre board (its fully retractable) and its more stable then a 30 inch flat bottom.
I recon this concept could work for flat water race boards allowing them to get the width right down as you only need the stability of wide boards when starting off or turning.
The board makers would hate it though as its a bit of mucking about to make a good retractable centreboard.

Nev


Now you're talking.. Great idea..

DJ

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
25 Mar 2012 12:12AM
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aus301 said...

I could be wrong, but I think with a bit of time and effort you could cut and sand a power box base to fit a US box. Drill a couple of holes, pin and drill and you are away.


That just might work.. I'm still keen to try my fin idea because it's only cost me $5 so far for the s/s bolts.. .. and it's a fin that I don't use.

DJ

Deano72
NSW, 540 posts
25 Mar 2012 10:53PM
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DavidJohn said...

aus301 said...

I could be wrong, but I think with a bit of time and effort you could cut and sand a power box base to fit a US box. Drill a couple of holes, pin and drill and you are away.


That just might work.. I'm still keen to try my fin idea because it's only cost me $5 so far for the s/s bolts.. .. and it's a fin that I don't use.

DJ



or attack an old tuttle box slalom sailboard fin with a grinder.....similar to what aus301 said.
I cant remember how long those things got back in the day....but well and truely long enough and designed for speed.
Carbon too....nice and stiff.
Nice little weekend project.

OG SUP
VIC, 3516 posts
26 Mar 2012 9:16AM
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David try everything you never know until you give it a crack.

I believe it would also be worth while trying the board with a larger Shane Horan Star Fin if you can get one or a copy.


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or lacey's idea to the extreme and go with 2 fins out near the rails.

Phill






HumanCartoon
VIC, 2098 posts
26 Mar 2012 10:42AM
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DavidJohn said...
I can't get a longer fin.. If I could I would not have gone to this much trouble.


Do you need more length or more tip area? You know how balance-challenged I am DJ...I've been chasing stability-nirvana for a good while. Larry's Gladiator fin makes a huge difference to the roll stability of my DC compared to other fins. Yes it has a big base but the tip is big too and makes it MUCH more stable.

I was also looking at one of these from Curtis for the 17

http://www.curtisfins.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36_37_45&product_id=49

not necessarily the concept you're chasing but might have the desired effect (cost more than $5 though )

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
26 Mar 2012 11:35AM
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HumanCartoon said...

DavidJohn said...
I can't get a longer fin.. If I could I would not have gone to this much trouble.


Do you need more length or more tip area? You know how balance-challenged I am DJ...I've been chasing stability-nirvana for a good while. Larry's Gladiator fin makes a huge difference to the roll stability of my DC compared to other fins. Yes it has a big base but the tip is big too and makes it MUCH more stable.

I was also looking at one of these from Curtis for the 17

http://www.curtisfins.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36_37_45&product_id=49

not necessarily the concept you're chasing but might have the desired effect (cost more than $5 though )




Yeah.. Good fins aren't cheap.. That one looks pretty good but at 11.5" long I can't see it being much better than the standard Naish fin.

A lot of Larry's fins are very swept back (because of the weed problems that they have) and often large in the base and small in the tip.. I'm thinking more upright is better for stability and keeping area in the tip is also important.. I'll try my fin today or tomorrow and see how it goes.

DJ

surfanimal
NSW, 1637 posts
26 Mar 2012 4:23PM
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This McTavish should do the job.



62mac
WA, 24860 posts
26 Mar 2012 1:38PM
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SA I was talking with Bob last week and I mentioned how I was having trouble with one board I have,his first question was what fin I was running,10 mins later all sorted,fin change and next surf I have a board that I control.

The board went from a dog to a joy to ride.

DJ I'll be seeing Bob Wednesday and I'm sure going to ask him about your bolt fin idea.

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
26 Mar 2012 10:13PM
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62mac said...

SA I was talking with Bob last week and I mentioned how I was having trouble with one board I have,his first question was what fin I was running,10 mins later all sorted,fin change and next surf I have a board that I control.

The board went from a dog to a joy to ride.

DJ I'll be seeing Bob Wednesday and I'm sure going to ask him about your bolt fin idea.


Thanks.. Say hi to Bob and see if he remembers me.. (not as DJ but as David Peterson) .. He might remember me from riding Mike Maguire windsurfing boards.. and coming in to watch him shape mals in Ballina when he was there.. and having some great windurfing sessions at Flat Rock in mast and a half high conditions with him.

The whole bolt fin idea is more about making a smaller fin longer when you can't find a longer one.. You never know it just might work better than a normal fin because normal fins that touch the board create low pressure areas and can suck air down from the base of the fin.

DJ



DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
8 Apr 2012 8:59PM
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Here's a vid... It's for Lacey's eyes only..

Unless you like long boring vids about air bubbles.. black swans.. and fairy penguins..

DJ

lookToSea
NSW, 183 posts
8 Apr 2012 9:31PM
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what was that cut away fin? it looked pretty good

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
8 Apr 2012 9:34PM
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well done, love the underwater shots- from 3 positions. a little bit air bubbling collecting around the back ss pin from the paddle strokes.

any speed difference, did you get your stability.

mate looks like a top class job you did in the making process

cheers

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
8 Apr 2012 9:44PM
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lookToSea said...

what was that cut away fin? it looked pretty good


That's the fin that I was using.. It's locally made by a guy in Totquay and he calls them 'Glide' fins.. It works ok but I'm looking for something even better.. I might get him to make me a custom fin.. I used to make my own fins in my windsurfing days that was a modified dolphin shape.. I don't have any now and I might have to do a drawing of one to show my design.

DJ



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"Making the 14' Jav more stable." started by DavidJohn